NFL's Worst Defense ?

[So Ram]

What kind don't?

Ram fans that appreciate the team & the players.All this negativity purely STINKS!!

 

[Tano]

Ram fans that appreciate the team & the players.All this negativity purely STINKS!!

A little over the top there

 

[Karate61]

Ram fans that appreciate the team & the players.All this negativity purely STINKS!!

Just because I'm not happy with the play of one particular player? That's not negativity. Not in my opinion.

 

[So Ram]

A little over the top there

That’s why I posted what I did. Thought was over the Top. Pretty gross imo. To each there own.

Go Rams!

 

[oldnotdead]

2017 Offense #1 in pts, #10 in yards Defense #12 in pts, #19 in yards (11-5)
2018 Offense #2 in pts, #2 in yards Defense #20 in pts, #19 in yards (13-3)
2019 Offense #11 in pts, #7 in yards Defense #17 in pts, #13 in yards (9-7)
2020 Offense #22 in pts, #11 in yards Defense #1 in pts, #1 in yards (10-6)
2021 Offense #7 in pts, #9 in yards Defense #15 in pts, #17 in yards (12-5)
2022 Offense #27 in pts, #32 in yards Defense #21 in pts, #19 in yards (5-12)

Interesting list. Lets break it down a little bit.

2017-2019 DC Wade Phillips finished ranked #12, 20 &17 Phillips fired
2020 DC Brandon Staley finished #1 (Hired by Chargers as HC)
2021-2022 DC Raheem Morris finished ranked #15 & 21 Starting players take blame traded away. Raheem stays with McVay's praise.

Raheem is no better than Phillips and a case could be made he's worse. Morris had more talent than Phillips yet same results. Yet the players are blamed and traded away. Why wasn't he fired like Phillips? Morris took the number 1 defense and tanked it in two years. A two year downward trend. Bottom half rankings in both categories in 2022. So McVay is going to wait until they are ranked #32 before he does anything? This is what I've been saying. From here on out it's on McVay, as he's complicit in this BS.

This is why Morris didn't get the Colt job and why he probably will never be a HC again.

 

[WestCoastRam]

Who's the leader of the DB room now - Fuller or Rapp (if we resign)?

I mean, our D is gonna be a dumpster fire but one good thing is that it's been reported by Jourdan that Fuller is a really good team leader. And we'll need it with a bunch of young, athletic players we're gonna draft this year.

 

[XXXIVwin]

A lot of die hard Rams fans on this board.

Wonder how many of us could even name the current starting 11, much less give an informed opinion about each one.

Off the top of my head, here's about all I know about these 3 current starters:

Christian Rozeboom: I vaguely remember he made a splashy tackle on ST once.

Daniel Hardy: a łatę round pick who was injured for a long time.

Quentin Lake: his Dad was a good player.

I mean, how many of us could even pick one of these guys out of a lineup....?

 

[PARAM]

Interesting list. Lets break it down a little bit.

2017-2019 DC Wade Phillips finished ranked #12, 20 &17 Phillips fired
2020 DC Brandon Staley finished #1 (Hired by Chargers as HC)
2021-2022 DC Raheem Morris finished ranked #15 & 21 Starting players take blame traded away. Raheem stays with McVay's praise.

Raheem is no better than Phillips and a case could be made he's worse. Morris had more talent than Phillips yet same results. Yet the players are blamed and traded away. Why wasn't he fired like Phillips? Morris took the number 1 defense and tanked it in two years. A two year downward trend. Bottom half rankings in both categories in 2022. So McVay is going to wait until they are ranked #32 before he does anything? This is what I've been saying. From here on out it's on McVay, as he's complicit in this BS.

This is why Morris didn't get the Colt job and why he probably will never be a HC again.

Okay. But WTF does that have to do with the Rams live and die by their offense?

Offense good = Playoffs
Offense bad = miss playoffs

It doesn't matter what kind of D we have. It doesn't matter who the DC happens to be. Perhaps this year, that'll be proven wrong. But I wouldn't bet on it.

On Brandon Staley, I'm getting more than a little tired of how great he was. He came to the Rams in 2020, when they had AD, Brockers, John Johnson, D. Will, Ebukam, SJD and they brought on Floyd and A'Shawn. But the key is, it was Ramsey's first full season with them. Additionally, Greg Gaines and Rapp were starting their second season and Jordan Fuller was healthy. In fact our whole D was healthy.....we had 7 guys start a least 15 games and 3 others start 14, 12 and 10. AD, SJD, Floyd, Ebukam, Hill, JJ, DWill, Kenny Young and Reeder all played 16 games. Brockers and Ramsey played 15 and Fuller played 12. That's 12 guys right there plus all the complimentary players like Rapp (9 G), Kizer (9 G), Obo (10 G), etc.

Plus we had a weak schedule!! We played the NFC East (4-0) which was won by 7-9 Washington. But we lost to the 2-14 Jets, who were 0-13 when they beat us!! And they controlled the ball to do it. We lost to SF twice and Seattle once. We beat Seattle in the playoffs (Akers had 131 yds and Brown had 31...and DWill made a great play anticipating a WR screen and taking it to the house). But then we gave up 32 to Green Bay (on 484 yards). Allowed 26 PPG in the playoffs.

So is Brandon Staley really "all that"? Or did he benefit from an excellent roster and stellar health? In 2 years with the Chargers, their D was 29th in points allowed and 23rd in yards. Last year they were 21st in pts allowed and 20th in yards. I'm not seeing this defensive guru Ram fans make him out to be. A one shot wonder? BTW, we won the SB the year after Staley (or A.S. if you wish) and we went to a SB before Staley (B.S.). We had a 3 year record of 33-15 prior to his arrival, 2-2 in the ps.

 

[Ramrasta]

I think the ram's team as a whole will be better than most people think. It will be fun to watch a young McVay and Morris coached up team compete to the best of their abilities and get us to the playoffs. Go Rams!

Didnt we get that last year, minus the playoffs?

 

[Malibu]

I could see if we lost 8 guys from a top 10 defense, we might suffer. At what point this year, did we have a good defense? But that is besides the point. The success of the Rams under McVay has been and will always be tied to OFFENSE. We went to the Superbowl in 2018 with the #20 defense in points and #19 defense in yards. This year we had the #21 defense in points and #19 defense in yards and we were 5-12. Why? No offense. We had the #1 defense in both yards and points in 2020 and went 10-6, 1-1 in the postseason. Why? Mediocre offense (#22, #11). In 2021 we had the #15 defense in pts, #17 in yards and won the SB. Why? Offense. Truth is, when McVay has a top 10 offense, we win, regardless of the defense.

2017 Offense #1 in pts, #10 in yards Defense #12 in pts, #19 in yards (11-5)
2018 Offense #2 in pts, #2 in yards Defense #20 in pts, #19 in yards (13-3)
2019 Offense #11 in pts, #7 in yards Defense #17 in pts, #13 in yards (9-7)
2020 Offense #22 in pts, #11 in yards Defense #1 in pts, #1 in yards (10-6)
2021 Offense #7 in pts, #9 in yards Defense #15 in pts, #17 in yards (12-5)
2022 Offense #27 in pts, #32 in yards Defense #21 in pts, #19 in yards (5-12)

And though I think Floyd was ragged a bit too much this year, he isn't a top flight pass rusher. Wagner had slowed. Ramsey is great but has his lapses. Gaines is decent but is that because of Donald? Rapp? Man he's been Ram fans whipping boy since he was drafted. Hill? He missed 4 games early this year and we went 2-2. Long? Come on. Scott was a good safety. A'Shawn was a run stopper but got hurt this year.

Donald is our defense.

Just to venture a guess

2023 - Offense - 12-20 in ppg (22-24) #15-20 in yards

Defense - 31st - 32nd ppg (30-36 gining up) 32nd in yards (last)

I am not joking with such a bad defense and an entirely completely new ST the Offense will never catch up to the points we allow on defense and on poor STs.

If I had to guess we win 2-5 games and I give them potentially more than 2 because of Kupp, Stafford, McVay and most of the Offense is the same.

 

[PARAM]

Just to venture a guess

2023 - Offense - 12-20 in ppg (22-24) #15-20 in yards

Defense - 31st - 32nd ppg (30-36 gining up) 32nd in yards (last)

I am not joking with such a bad defense and an entirely completely new ST the Offense will never catch up to the points we allow on defense and on poor STs.

If I had to guess we win 2-5 games and I give them potentially more than 2 because of Kupp, Stafford, McVay and most of the Offense is the same.

So your guess is "new ST" = "poor ST"? Does that always hold true? Also minus 8 defensive starters = bad (but I'd bet you wanted to use "terrible") defense? It's difficult to argue or venture a contradicting guess at this time. However, I can't help but feel any guess either way, at this time, is like predicting the record game by game when the schedule comes out in late April. Rarely accurate game by game. And any guess, at this time should include a disclaimer that the guess might be altered depending on the draft and free agency. My wonder is with such a young team and 8 new defensive starters will McVay's view on preseason be contrary to the past?

 

[Tano]

So your guess is "new ST" = "poor ST"? Does that always hold true? Also minus 8 defensive starters = bad (but I'd bet you wanted to use "terrible") defense? It's difficult to argue or venture a contradicting guess at this time. However, I can't help but feel any guess either way, at this time, is like predicting the record game by game when the schedule comes out in late April. Rarely accurate game by game. And any guess, at this time should include a disclaimer that the guess might be altered depending on the draft and free agency. My wonder is with such a young team and 8 new defensive starters will McVay's view on preseason be contrary to the past?

I bet he plays mostly starters on defense in the pre-season because a lot of the players will have hardly played in a regular season game.

He will probably not play AD and Jones but everyone else will probably get game time.

Who else do you think he might not play? Hoecht? Durant? Kendrick? Fuller?

 

[AvengerRam]

A lot of die hard Rams fans on this board.

For some, though, the death seems to be pretty quick.

I prefer to rage against the dying of the light.

 

[PARAM]

Andy Reid on losing JuJu and Mecole Hardeman
"We are expecting Skyy Moore to step up," Reid said. "We'll just see how everything else works. We got the same guys coming back that we had, and we like that group with the exception of JuJu. Mecole was banged up a little bit so he didn't have a chance to play as much as he would have wanted. We'll work out the thing without JuJu. Somebody will have to step up and take that spot."

So the World Champions lost their #1 and #3 WRs and they expect a 2nd round draft pick with 22 receptions (+5 rec for 17 yds in the ps) to "step up"? Where have I heard suggestions like that before?

 

[simonblaze]

For our defense not to be terrible...Michael Hoecht will need a 10+ sack season, breakout performances from Durant/Rochell/Kendricks and decent play from Lake/Yeast/Fuller.

Which is A LOT to ask and super unlikely...

We've seen what happens when Donald is our only playmaker...he flashes here and there but is tripled teamed to death and relegated to being a non factor while the rest of the defense struggles...

 

[PARAM]

For our defense not to be terrible...Michael Hoecht will need a 10+ sack season, breakout performances from Durant/Rochell/Kendricks and decent play from Lake/Yeast/Fuller.

Which is A LOT to ask and super unlikely...

We've seen what happens when Donald is our only playmaker...he flashes here and there but is tripled teamed to death and relegated to being a non factor while the rest of the defense struggles...

Somehow, with 11 draft picks (and a deep Edge/OLB class) as well as 14 mil under the cap, I believe we're going to have some Edge rushing help. Call me optimistic because currently that's what it is but we'll just have to wait and see. As far as breakout performances from Durant/Kendricks/Rochell (which would be fantastic) and decent play from Lake/Yeast/Fuller, that would do but to expect it is even more than optimistic. How about decent from most of them, progressively improving over the course of the season? Sound more realistic? Where that puts us is an unknown at this point in time. But that's just one side of the ball. I expect much more from our offense. Don't we all?

 

[muggmeister]

How good this defense is will be dependent upon Aubrey Pleasant. If he coaches the DBs up to play aggressively then a Tampa Two can work. The Bucs ran it and it worked for them. But the key is to play aggressively. The DBs must read and anticipate route concepts. One of the LBs must have the speed and the skills to cover. I think Snead will have to draft for that.

They have good speed outside if they play Durant and Rochell. If Fuller can return to form he can play the middle zone a two deep shell needs. He's shown he can read route concepts. Lake and Yeast have under 4.6 speed which is enough for a two-deep shell. Hoecht should provide them with one edge (DE). Hardy can play the JACk but needs experience. That IMO is where Snead will draft for. Brown and Murchison will play in rotation to replace Gaines. Brown early downs to stop the run and Murchison to play on passing downs. AD will always be AD.

The offense is basically set with their skill players. They simply need to sort out the OL but they do have talent there. Jackson is the ultimate swing OL as he can play all positions except center. Shelton can play all interior OL positions.

LT Noteboom / Jackson
LG Thomas
C Allen / Shelton
RG Bruss
RT Havenstein / Jackson

Swing OG Brewer

If the OL stays healthy they can be pretty good. Thomas is unproven but he certainly looked good at SDSU. The same can be said about Bruss. If either one isn't ready to start then Shelton and Brewer can play OG. Brewer played almost 230 snaps last year and though there were times he struggled he didn't give up any sacks. It was his first offensive snaps so he's a work in progress. He should be better this year. I think coach Wendell can help guys like Brewer, Thomas and Bruss. As a former player he knows what they need to expect and do. I expect improved play and fewer injuries on the OL this year.

This roster is better than most fans and especially the media know.

How in the hell can you say "they can be pretty good"? Potential and college games don't mean shit in the NFL. The only damn one of the whole group who would start elsewhere is Havenstein, and he wouldn't start on half the teams. Don't try to blow smoke up my ass and tell me it's fairy dust! This same group of minimally talented, oft injured and underachievers (Allen, Noteboom) just may force Stafford into retirement by season's end. Neglecting the o-line the past few drafts for Jefferson, Atwell, Akers, etc, have put the Rams in this position. McVay might be great at coaching "talent" but it becomes harder when coaching "lack of talent". Will always be Rams guy as I have been for 50 years but I don't need people saying the glass is half full when it's fucking empty.

 

[PARAM]

Just some numbers to digest.......

Everybody remembers, in fact gushes over Brandon Staley and his #1 Rams defense. It was great. It was fun to watch. But it wasn't enough to go deep in the playoffs. In fact, it wasn't enough to win the division. I think we know why. But they were good. Very good. #1 in yards allowed, #1 in points allowed, #1 in passing yds allowed, #3 in rushing yards allowed, #3 in rushing yds/att. Excellent. Only 29 TDs allowed and just 22 FGs.

And a look at the numbers of other years and you'll find, the most offensive touchdowns allowed under McVay was in 2018 (43). But....that team made it to the Superbowl. Lost, but made it and allowed just 13 points in that game. That team was terrible against the run allowing 1957 yards (the most under McVay, one more than 2022 and the same as 2017) but at a 5.1 clip (#32). The 2022 defense allowed 4.3 ypa (#12). The most passing yards we ever allowed was 4109 (2021). Another SB year, this one a win. But they were good against the run. 1760 yds (#6) at a 4.0 clip (also #6). And they allowed just 35 TDs, 2nd lowest under McVay (to Staley's D) and tied with 2022.

So what's this all tell us? Well certainly not everything, but it would seem to indicate though a strong defense is nice, defense doesn't win Championships anymore. Offense does. And if you don't have a good offense, you can forget your defense and any chance you have for a title.

 

[ottoman89]

A

Just some numbers to digest.......

Everybody remembers, in fact gushes over Brandon Staley and his #1 Rams defense. It was great. It was fun to watch. But it wasn't enough to go deep in the playoffs. In fact, it wasn't enough to win the division. I think we know why. But they were good. Very good. #1 in yards allowed, #1 in points allowed, #1 in passing yds allowed, #3 in rushing yards allowed, #3 in rushing yds/att. Excellent. Only 29 TDs allowed and just 22 FGs.

And a look at the numbers of other years and you'll find, the most offensive touchdowns allowed under McVay was in 2018 (43). And we made it to the Superbowl. Lost, but made it and allowed just 13 points in that game. That team was terrible against the run allowiing 1957 yards (the most under McVay, one more than 2022 and the same as 2017) but at a 5.1 clip (#32). The 2022 defense allowed 4.3 ypa (#12). The most passing yards we ever allowed was 4109 (2021). Another SB year, this one a win. But they were good against the run. 1760 yds (#6) at a 4.0 clip (also #6). And they allowed just 35 TDs, 2nd lowest under McVay (to Staley's D), tied with 2022.

So what's this all tell us. Well certainly not everything, but it would seem to indicate though a strong defense is nice, defense doesn't win Championships anymore. Offense does. And if you don't have a good offense, you can forget your defense and any chance you have for a title.

It doesn't help either that he had an AD99 with broken ribs who couldn't play... Also didn't have Von Miller across from Floyd. with broken ribs who couldn't play much, and the Offense was relying on a broken Goff and Wolf/Perkins.

I do understand what you're saying though.

 

[PARAM]

How in the hell can you say "they can be pretty good"? Potential and college games don't mean shit in the NFL. The only damn one of the whole group who would start elsewhere is Havenstein, and he wouldn't start on half the teams. Don't try to blow smoke up my ass and tell me it's fairy dust! This same group of minimally talented, oft injured and underachievers (Allen, Noteboom) just may force Stafford into retirement by season's end. Neglecting the o-line the past few drafts for Jefferson, Atwell, Akers, etc, have put the Rams in this position. McVay might be great at coaching "talent" but it becomes harder when coaching "lack of talent". Will always be Rams guy as I have been for 50 years but I don't need people saying the glass is half full when it's fucking empty.

Well we could have gone OL with our first two picks the last few drafts and we might have had a terrific unit. Or maybe not. Over the past 5 drafts they've taken an OL with their first pick twice. In 3 of those drafts, they've taken 2 OL, once with the first two picks. The one year they didn't take an OL Creed Humphrey was the consensus pick and they passed. So they will forever suffer the ire of Ram fans for doing that. And consequently, nothing they can do, short of drafting OL first every year will satisfy those fans. Hell not even winning a Superbowl gained them any slack!!! And I often wonder if some Ram fans didn't enjoy that season as much as they should have because of passing on Creed Humphrey. "Yeah, we won the SB but Creed Humphrey would have helped us for years".

How can anybody say, "they can be pretty good"? For one, if they can simply remain healthy they should improve. Continuity is constantly cited. By fans, by O lineman, by coaches. You can have a lesser talented OL and still have a good one if they have continuity. (Not 5 Bobby Evans' of course). I don't believe the guys you call "minimally talented", are minimally talented. Allen was the starting CENTER on a Superbowl Championship team. You can't get away with mediocre at that position. Folks like to talk up Whit as covering for inadequacies and that may or may not be correct, to some degree. Probably his leadership more than anything else. But a stud LT is not going to cover for "minimally talented" at the other 4 positions. Just like having Creed Humphrey last year, would have made all of the difference. NOT.

But some guys just can't forget the old, antiquated cliches. "Defense wins Championships" and "It all starts up front". That last one has some merit but it's not like you need the 1975 Rams OL to win. You need some talent, a lot of health and continuity. And a good QB doesn't hurt.

So let's see if they go out and draft a ton of OL talent in April.