New: Latest on Kroenke, Rams and NFL in STL

[bluecoconuts]

I do think it's worth noting that he's transferring ownership of the other teams to his son rather than selling them... so this really comes across as satisfying the letter of the bylaws but not the spirit. Which could be very telling as to how the owners will rule on whether or not Kroenke has met the qualifications for relocation.

I don't know if it would be telling or not, I think that as long as construction starts they will let him do his thing. I just think that a lot of the drama is media made, its the hot story this year.

Personally if someone were to ask me about chances the Rams move, I'd say about 70% chance they go. My prediction is that the Rams move, Spanos will try to move in with Kroenke in LA, and Davis moves to St Louis.

Its not really unheard of, having a team leave a market and then another team move in eventually. I don't think the league will agree that the Chargers have a right to the LA market (Dallas didn't have a right to Houston, for example, and they had tons of fans there), and thus I don't see a block being successful. In fact, Spanos may back off once construction starts, so he can buddy up to share the stadium. Maybe not though, hard to say how it goes, but that's my guess.

AEG wants substantial control of the team that they build Farmers Field for, and the city council has already given up on a stadium and voted to go ahead with upgrading the convention center without building the stadium. I'm not sure if Spanos owns 100% of the team, but I don't think he wants to give up 35-49% of the team either way. So moving in with Stan let's him "keep" the LA market (get more than 25% most likely) without breaking the bank or giving up his team. So I'm not sure how much truth there is to those rumors. Similar to most rumors (Stan selling, etc), its probably BS.

Right now we know that Stan wants to build a stadium, and Mayor Butts wants to fast track it. Everything else is pretty much just rumors (other than St Louis working on a stadium plan). We'll find out more next Tuesday. The Chargers statement may just push Butts to work even faster though.

 

[bluecoconuts]

If I am Stan and I can't move my team I try and sell/buy/swap a team that can move.

If I'm Stan and I just spent billions of dollars on a stadium and I'm told I can't move them, I laugh and tell them I'm doing it anyway. Unless they are going to straight give me a team and pay me money for my trouble, there's no chance I bat my eye at that lost money.

 

[Goose]

If I'm Stan and I just spent billions of dollars on a stadium and I'm told I can't move them, I laugh and tell them I'm doing it anyway. Unless they are going to straight give me a team and pay me money for my trouble, there's no chance I bat my eye at that lost money.

Last time I check billionaires don't like spending their own money or losing out on money. How long would it take Stan to recoup the billions spent to get to LA and overcome penalties from the league?

 

[bluecoconuts]

Last time I check billionaires don't like spending their own money or losing out on money. How long would it take Stan to recoup the billions spent to get to LA and overcome penalties from the league?

He sues and makes the league pay him. The precedent is already in his favor.

 

[mr.stlouis]

I would love for this rumor to be true. Seems like the best case and more of a community friendly ownership group.

It's also really far-fetched IMO.

IDK what it is but I've been wondering why Grubman keeps coming back. This is the most exciting case scenario.

 

[Goose]

He sues and makes the league pay him. The precedent is already in his favor.

He can sue to move I don't know if they can make the league pay him.

 

[Dodgersrf]

Stan is handing LA to the league on a silver platter.
I doubt the league is going to put up a fight.
Whether it's the Rams or Raiders, he's building a stadium and putting a team in it.

I don't see lawsuits being filed at all, because I don't see the league putting up a fight to keep a team out of LA. The Inglewood stadium should be nice enough for the league to approve. The project has too many bells and whistles to deny it.

 

[bluecoconuts]

He can sue to move I don't know if they can make the league pay him.

Didn't Davis make the league pay him when he sued? Either way, I doubt Stan would pay a dime. To me it's not about money, but more about prestige. That can make it more tricky though, because getting pushed around by smaller fish, or letting the league say no after all the time and money spent, it's not very good for said prestige. Stan will let the league rubber stamp the move with a vote so they can still look good, but if they say no I don't think he just accepts that, starts writing a check to St Louis, or gives up his team.

 

[Boffo97]

Didn't Davis make the league pay him when he sued? Either way, I doubt Stan would pay a dime. To me it's not about money, but more about prestige. That can make it more tricky though, because getting pushed around by smaller fish, or letting the league say no after all the time and money spent, it's not very good for said prestige. Stan will let the league rubber stamp the move with a vote so they can still look good, but if they say no I don't think he just accepts that, starts writing a check to St Louis, or gives up his team.

I believe the League eventually settled with Davis.

But all that said, I would be very surprised if things went that far. I'm definitely in the camp that unless Stan either screws up or St. Louis makes him a crazy offer that makes him want to stay, the owners are going to vote Yes.

 

[bluecoconuts]

IDK what it is but I've been wondering why Grubman keeps coming back. This is the most exciting case scenario.

Appearances. Why would he be overseeing the sale of a team, that's not his job, is it?

 

[dbrooks25]

The problem remains that the "exhausting all efforts" clause is very subjective. The Rams have a very good argument that they did exhaust all effort when they made a proposal on how to bring the EJD into compliance with the lease, prevailed in the arbitration, and St. Louis declined, and that furthermore, a stadium requiring them to pay hundreds of millions of dollars into it that they still wouldn't own (and even if they did pay, still has serious questions as to whether or not the public funding will come through) is not acceptable.

Wait, I don't have any hard numbers but I'm sure there are more than a few owners who chipped in to build stadiums that they currently don't own. Saying that Kroenke putting money in a stadium he won't own outright isn't unacceptable at all. And while we're at it, it wasn't the city of St. Louis who declined to upgrade the dome, it was the CVC and they are a completely separate entity. The city of St. Louis got involved by coming forth with the stadium proposal.

 

[Boffo97]

Wait, I don't have any hard numbers but I'm sure there are more than a few owners who chipped in to build stadiums that they currently don't own. Saying that Kroenke putting money in a stadium he won't own outright isn't unacceptable at all.

That's a perfectly valid opinion. But Kroenke might disagree with you. He might even secretly agree with you but say otherwise just to answer the "exhausted all options" requirement.

If 23 owners agree with him, that's all he needs.

 

[dbrooks25]

bullcrap. You specifically said my standards changed depending on what team we're talking about, and more than once.

But you're not going to admit the obvious, so in the interest of moving on, I'll let you continue to deny what's pretty clear. I only ask that you not go there any more from here on out and keep it on topic.


Sure, there's some bias in both the pro-move and anti-move sides.

But the rules are subjective. If 24 owners agree that they've been satisfied, then they've been satisfied. And if 9 owners disagree, then they haven't. No matter what anyone here thinks. And a lot of those 24 owners will be influenced by the desire to return a team to L.A., and to avoid a lawsuit.


Oh, Stan has a lot more choices than that. (And I think he definitely wants to own.)

1. Go rogue, move on his own, and dare the NFL to do something about it when historical precedent has shown that they will lose.
2. Take a "no" answer as a "not right now" answer and continue to use his unilateral year by year options in the EJD while pushing for a move until 2024, which none of us want.
3. Sue, and probably win.

That's just off the top of my head. If you were Stan, and you really wanted to move into this huge complex you would own, and the League said no (for argument's sake, as I don't think they will), would you just shrug your shoulders and say "Oh well" and write a check for a few hundred million dollars? That just doesn't seem realistic to me.


Yes, because a one off joke post that should have offended no one is comparable to 2 pages of organized harassment against a user for comments they made elsewhere. (Which I suppose wasn't personal either.)

These to me look like options you hope will play out. It's been widely reported that Kroenke and the Rams will honor the league's decision when it comes to this matter. Is it true? Who knows, but he has a few options, and staying put and going along with the stadium proposal from St. Louis is definitely one of them along with the ones you mentioned. Another thing is he better have that cross ownership problem taken care of if he does try to challenge the NFL.

 

[dbrooks25]

That's a perfectly valid opinion. But Kroenke might disagree with you. He might even secretly agree with you but say otherwise just to answer the "exhausted all options" requirement.

If 23 owners agree with him, that's all he needs.

Correct, but it was you saying that him putting money towards a stadium he wouldn't own is unacceptable. We don't know what's acceptable and unacceptable to him.

 

[Rams and Gators]

Question, is there any major disadvantage to being the third team in the LA market as an owner rather than the first.

Say San Diego and Oakland were able to combine to build a $800m stadium, I'm guessing it would still be worthwhile to them to move there with Kroenke already there?

 

[Boffo97]

These to me look like options you hope will play out. It's been widely reported that Kroenke and the Rams will honor the league's decision when it comes to this matter. Is it true? Who knows, but he has a few options, and staying put and going along with the stadium proposal from St. Louis is definitely one of them along with the ones you mentioned. Another thing is he better have that cross ownership problem taken care of if he does try to challenge the NFL.

There's a bit of bias here, I admit. And that's true for most everyone who is either from the St. Louis or Los Angeles areas.

But I think there's more to my argument than that. By all signs, Kroenke wants to go to L.A. and will do so any way he can. If he just shrugged and gave up and went with St. Louis' offer rather than proceed with his project, I'd be downright shocked. If there was any kind of arrangement where Kronke takes some other team to L.A., I'd be even more shocked.

Sure, anything can happen, but I have to think that Kroenke's desires are going to be the determining factor, and at this point, they seem pretty clear.

 

[dbrooks25]

I do think it's worth noting that he's transferring ownership of the other teams to his son rather than selling them... so this really comes across as satisfying the letter of the bylaws but not the spirit. Which could be very telling as to how the owners will rule on whether or not Kroenke has met the qualifications for relocation.

We'll see about that, seems like he was supposed to be transferring ownership to his son a LONG time ago. I'm sure I heard the same thing a couple of years ago.

 

[dbrooks25]

There's a bit of bias here, I admit. And that's true for most everyone who is either from the St. Louis or Los Angeles areas.

But I think there's more to my argument than that. By all signs, Kroenke wants to go to L.A. and will do so any way he can. If he just shrugged and gave up and went with St. Louis' offer rather than proceed with his project, I'd be downright shocked. If there was any kind of arrangement where Kronke takes some other team to L.A., I'd be even more shocked.

Sure, anything can happen, but I have to think that Kroenke's desires are going to be the determining factor, and at this point, they seem pretty clear.

And with that, nobody here knows Kroenke personally so we have absolutely no idea what he wants to do. Sure, all signs point to him wanting to go to LA, but this is the same guy who actually said two years ago that he would do everything in his power to keep the team in St. Louis. The guy is very smart and makes calculated decisions, so I wouldn't be shocked if he chooses to stay or go. Until he makes it crystal clear what he is going to do nobody here should shoot down any scenario whether it's pro Stl or pro LA.

 

[Dodgersrf]

Wait, I don't have any hard numbers but I'm sure there are more than a few owners who chipped in to build stadiums that they currently don't own. Saying that Kroenke putting money in a stadium he won't own outright isn't unacceptable at all. And while we're at it, it wasn't the city of St. Louis who declined to upgrade the dome, it was the CVC and they are a completely separate entity. The city of St. Louis got involved by coming forth with the stadium proposal.

I would have a serious issue with the way the City of STL has handled this from the beginning.
The low ball offer the CVC presented was a joke. If the reports are true that the Dome would be more profitable without the Rams there then it's no surprise they presented an unacceptable renovation plan.
Why would the CVC pay hundreds of millions to make less money to keep the Rams?The City had to know this was going to happen all along. Unacceptable.
Now the City and fans are hoping to save the Rams and keep Stan from taking his business elsewhere.
I'd be pissed if I were a STL local.

 

[Boffo97]

And with that, nobody here knows Kroenke personally so we have absolutely no idea what he wants to do. Sure, all signs point to him wanting to go to LA, but this is the same guy who actually said two years ago that he would do everything in his power to keep the team in St. Louis. The guy is very smart and makes calculated decisions, so I wouldn't be shocked if he chooses to stay or go. Until he makes it crystal clear what he is going to do nobody here should shoot down any scenario whether it's pro Stl or pro LA.

If someone's words say one thing, but their deeds say another, I'm going to go with deeds showing true intentions.

And, at least from me, saying "I think such and such is going to happen" shouldn't be viewed as "shooting down" anything else. Sure, anything is still POSSIBLE, but we all should be allowed to give our opinions of what will happen.

But if what I think will happen does happen, I hope St. Louisans get another team ASAP. You're all a good bunch and you deserve it. OTOH, if the team stays the St. Louis Ram, I'll stay a fan even if another team comes to L.A. (especially if it's the Raiders.)