New: Latest on Kroenke, Rams and NFL in STL

[iced]

They did, when Kroenke first started working towards this project his partner was Spanos.

And spurned him afterwards

 

[WillasDad]

I don't get why people assume Chargers and Rams is something thats going to happen...as if Spanos or Kroenke has never thought about the possibility themselves..

Two owners garnering votes to block each other are going to suddenly work together, particularly where one owner is going to be majority owner and one a tenant? Umm, okay. Not likely at all, imo.

I see the NFL having to choose between the two projects before these two ever share a stadium

I agree with this. I know Roggin's been predicting the Rams and Chargers getting together for quite some time, but unless he doesn't mind being viewed as SK's b****, Spanos will likely seek opportunity elsewhere, including waiting on the SD stadium. I still think my previous idea of the Chargers trying for the downtown LA stadium with AEG once again wouldn't be a bad idea. Of course, that would probably a few years down the line.

 

[iced]

I agree with this. I know Roggin's been predicting the Rams and Chargers getting together for quite some time, but unless he doesn't mind being viewed as SK's b****, Spanos will likely seek opportunity elsewhere, including waiting on the SD stadium. I still think my previous idea of the Chargers trying for the downtown LA stadium with AEG once again wouldn't be a bad idea. Of course, that would probably a few years down the line.

If you listened to Roggin then you would have heard him talk about the two - he talked about them as if they were two jilted lovers

And No way to AEG - No owner wants to meet AEG's demands

 

[WillasDad]

If you listened to Roggin then you would have heard him talk about the two - he talked about them as if they were two jilted lovers

And No way to AEG - No owner wants to meet AEG's demands

Roggin's been saying from the outset that he thinks the site will be Inglewood and there'd be two teams playing there, the Rams and the Chargers. I'd be shocked if that actually occurs. As for AEG's demands, I think if the opportunity presented itself once again, AEG would likely come down from their demands a bit, but even if they didn't, I could see Spanos reconsidering. Downtown LA has changed drastically even from just two years ago. The value of a team moving into a downtown LA stadium would go through the roof. Spanos could probably profit a lot more owning a smaller percentage the Chargers in exchange for percentage of all revenue at the new stadium.

 

[RamFan503]

Jelly vs. lemon- filled was more interesting. :huh:

Way.

 

[iced]

Roggin's been saying from the outset that he thinks the site will be Inglewood and there'd be two teams playing there, the Rams and the Chargers. I'd be shocked if that actually occurs0

Not what I recall but I agree, I'd be shocked if it happened. I see virtually zero chance of it actually happening

As for AEG's demands, I think if the opportunity presented itself once again, AEG would likely come down from their demands a bit, but even if they didn't, I could see Spanos reconsidering. Downtown LA has changed drastically even from just two years ago. The value of a team moving into a downtown LA stadium would go through the roof. Spanos could probably profit a lot more owning a smaller percentage the Chargers in exchange for percentage of all revenue at the new stadium.

I don't think AEG would - and if they did, would it truly be enough to out do what Goldenman Sachs is offering? I don't think so.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Good point. Fair point.

But it also is a very limited market in cities willing to do that. How many cities make a serious bid to bring the NFL?

LA is offering nothing to get an NFL team or the Inglewood project, so SK is betting the house on his stadium investment and retail complex.

Also, these owners make money hand over fist. Not every owner like SK is just concerned with maximising profit and being the big fish, some actually love their cities and footbal

I think most of these guys are into making more money.. There are some with such deep roots, the Cowboys, Giants, etc that aren't going to move, but there are teams like the Bengals, Panthers, Jags, that could move if the potential is big enough. I think the next city that teams look to after Los Angeles is Toronto honestly. I'm shocked they haven't decided to move into Canada like the rest of the big 4.

In the words of the great Spock, "the needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few...or the one". Or as fans and owners hope for from great unrestricted free agent players..."the riches they've made in the past will lead them to giving us a hometown discount."

And there's the rub, the needs of the many are helped by helping the needs of the one.

 

[WillasDad]

Not what I recall but I agree, I'd be shocked if it happened. I see virtually zero chance of it actually happening



I don't think AEG would - and if they did, would it truly be enough to out do what Goldenman Sachs is offering? I don't think so.

I'm assuming Goldman Sach's offer to help was specifically for a scenario in which there would be two NFL teams in LA with no other competing stadium being built. With another stadium being built, I'm sure Goldman starts looking for collateral before moving forward.

 

[iced]

I'm assuming Goldman Sach's offer to help was specifically for a scenario in which there would be two NFL teams in LA with no other competing stadium being built. With another stadium being built, I'm sure Goldman starts looking for collateral before moving forward.

Hard to imagine they wouldn't be acknowleding Inglewood, considering how their cost cover has increased from $1 billion to the total project estimation ($1.7 billion). They've also been apart of 30+ stadium deals, so I would think they're about as reliable as it comes to this area.

Kinda shocked you would even insinuate they might be not aware of Inglewood.... And judging by the recently released Fly-through of the Carson stadium, I'd say they're very sincere in their project and moving forward

 

[WillasDad]

Hard to imagine they wouldn't be acknowleding Inglewood, considering how their cost cover has increased from $1 billion to the total project estimation ($1.7 billion). They've also been apart of 30+ stadium deals, so I would think they're about as reliable as it comes to this area.

Kinda shocked you would even insinuate they might be not aware of Inglewood.... And judging by the recently released Fly-through of the Carson stadium, I'd say they're very sincere in their project and moving forward

I meant that if Inglewood gets started on building, I don't see how GS would even bother at that point. Their plan probably relies on being the financier of the only new stadium being built in town. That's a lot of uncertainty right there. As for the flyover video, meh, it was basically an animation video. We're got a lot of firms here in LA who could make the same quality for pretty cheap. Jack Bauer was pretty good, but the Inglewood projected had an actual architect from the firm that was designing the stadium to do the presentation. Brings a lot of credibility for the project.

 

[iced]

I meant that if Inglewood gets started on building, I don't see how GS would even bother at that point.

Not sure why you would assume a stadium would start being constructed without approval

As for the flyover video, meh, it was basically an animation video.

The cost if anything - i would imagine more than just a couple picture renderings

 

[blue4]

I think it's safe to say that Carson is an actual project and not a cheap animation display.

 

[blue4]

That's what worries me, new owners who are thinking "I want a big top of the line stadium like Inglewood, but what if my city says no and offers something less than that? If we say no to the Rams leaving, then I might be stuck, even if another city offers me up something better...."

Who knows how they are thinking, but if they're thinking that, it might be hard to convince them to say no.

Putting a stadium in LA now though robs them of leverage for their own stadiums so I think it's a wash. The other key is I don't see anyone else who actually wants to pay a relocation fee and move. San Antonio or Toronto? You're probably not getting a better deal from those cities than what any team already has. Ironically it's the California cities who seem the most reluctant to fork out public money so I don't see anywhere for those owners to realistically go other than LA that will actually make enough extra money to pay off a relocation fee. Either way Stan may very well be scorching the Earth behind him for other owners.

 

[The Ripper]

Not sure why you would assume a stadium would start being constructed without approval

The reason is that they say there a building no matter what. Stadiums can make a profit even without an NFL team playing there. The potential for the Olympics and other events that could make the stadium profitable, not the same way as having an NFL team in attendance but still a profit. The Carson project's financing depends on a number of assumptions low rates and PSL sales. If rates go up before the construction starts that will significantly increase the cost. Will they use hedging strategies yes but that still requires capital initially which neither team has. The project is often compared to Levi but there are big differences. The financing used municipal bonds that were guaranteed local governments and that's not the case in Carson. The use of munis reduces borrowing costs and the low interest rate environment has helped in paying off the debt early. The other assumption is based on the current competition in the market for events and with another stadium in Inglewood the revenue generated from the other events would be reduced.

Just having the backing of Goldman doesn't mean the project will be successful. They have failures too and some have been substantial.

 

[blue4]

The reason is that they say there a building no matter what. Stadiums can make a profit even without an NFL team playing there. The potential for the Olympics and other events that could make the stadium profitable, not the same way as having an NFL team in attendance but still a profit. The Carson project's financing depends on a number of assumptions low rates and PSL sales. If rates go up before the construction starts that will significantly increase the cost. Will they use hedging strategies yes but that still requires capital initially which neither team has. The project is often compared to Levi but there are big differences. The financing used municipal bonds that were guaranteed local governments and that's not the case in Carson. The use of munis reduces borrowing costs and the low interest rate environment has helped in paying off the debt early. The other assumption is based on the current competition in the market for events and with another stadium in Inglewood the revenue generated from the other events would be reduced.

Just having the backing of Goldman doesn't mean the project will be successful. They have failures too and some have been substantial.

I'm not so sure building a stadium before being sure is a smart move. Without a team the ROI would be way to small to try and pay off a billion dollars. Stan may start on the parking lot, but I doubt the stadium. The land is worth too much developed to put a random stadium up.

 

[WillasDad]

Not sure why you would assume a stadium would start being constructed without approval

The assumptions go both ways. For the amount of money involved, why assume a stadium wouldn't be built, even without approval. All we can see so far is that SK is waiting on the approval owners. How he acts should he not receive it is a total mystery at this point. The guy stood up before the owners and gave a speech himself about moving to LA. Maybe he puts his tail between his legs and goes back to St. Louis, or he says screw it and moves forward with his plans anyway. Btw, Sam Farmer's been reporting SK's got the votes to vote down the Carson project, bu also that there likely won't even be a vote. What does that even mean?

The cost if anything - i would imagine more than just a couple picture renderings

I'm not even trying to say I know anything about the cost of this "fly through" video. What I am saying is that nobody here even knows beyond the cost of hiring Carmen Policy and making a stadium video what sort of expendiures have even been made by the Carson stadium group. Seems like the majority of the work has been focused on spreading an idea that Carson is catching up to Carson through a bunch of press release type articles telling everybody about the viability of Carson.

I think it's safe to say that Carson is an actual project and not a cheap animation display.

Bubbaram has been saying this for quite some time, but that location is a toxic waste dump site. The state environmental guy (name of guy and organization escapes me) has been quoted as saying that the remediation of the stadium would be less complicated because of the placement of one large stadium being directly on top of the toxic waste, thereby allowing for the release of the toxic material that escapes to be just outside the stadium, as opposed to a bunch of smaller buildings which would then require some sort of snaking of pipes underneath, which would be more complex. So what about a park where presumably nothing would be on top of the toxic waste area? Farmer's market and a park where kids can play? Would you trust to eat the food sold or have your kids play there, notwithstanding all the other challenges Carson faces?

 

[blue4]

The assumptions go both ways. For the amount of money involved, why assume a stadium wouldn't be built, even without approval. All we can see so far is that SK is waiting on the approval owners. How he acts should he not receive it is a total mystery at this point. The guy stood up before the owners and gave a speech himself about moving to LA. Maybe he puts his tail between his legs and goes back to St. Louis, or he says screw it and moves forward with his plans anyway. Btw, Sam Farmer's been reporting SK's got the votes to vote down the Carson project, bu also that there likely won't even be a vote. What does that even mean?



I'm not even trying to say I know anything about the cost of this "fly through" video. What I am saying is that nobody here even knows beyond the cost of hiring Carmen Policy and making a stadium video what sort of expendiures have even been made by the Carson stadium group. Seems like the majority of the work has been focused on spreading an idea that Carson is catching up to Carson through a bunch of press release type articles telling everybody about the viability of Carson.



Bubbaram has been saying this for quite some time, but that location is a toxic waste dump site. The state environmental guy (name of guy and organization escapes me) has been quoted as saying that the remediation of the stadium would be less complicated because of the placement of one large stadium being directly on top of the toxic waste, thereby allowing for the release of the toxic material that escapes to be just outside the stadium, as opposed to a bunch of smaller buildings which would then require some sort of snaking of pipes underneath, which would be more complex. So what about a park where presumably nothing would be on top of the toxic waste area? Farmer's market and a park where kids can play? Would you trust to eat the food sold or have your kids play there, notwithstanding all the other challenges Carson faces?

It doesn't matter whether you or I like it, the point is it's an actual project.

 

[WillasDad]

I'm not so sure building a stadium before being sure is a smart move. Without a team the ROI would be way to small to try and pay off a billion dollars. Stan may start on the parking lot, but I doubt the stadium. The land is worth too much developed to put a random stadium up.

As opposed to giving up gigantic leverage of threat of building without approval and scrapping plans projected to see revenue well in excess of multiple billions of dollars outside of just football (A-list award shows, the Olympics, World Cup, etc.). Thinking in terms of ROI on the stadium is probably thinking too small. That seems like a much less smart move, if anything.

 

[bluecoconuts]

The cost if anything - i would imagine more than just a couple picture renderings

Making those videos are pretty cheap and easy, a high school kid could do it. It's a cool video and cool project, but in terms of presentation, its more costly and more impressive when they are going into details, the nuts and bolts of the project, that shows more commitment and understanding.

I'm assuming Carson has that, but they haven't released it as Inglewood has. I don't think Kroenke is trying to win them over with flashy videos, he's showing them the details, which is probably more important anyway.

These videos are for the public, not the owners.

Putting a stadium in LA now though robs them of leverage for their own stadiums so I think it's a wash. The other key is I don't see anyone else who actually wants to pay a relocation fee and move. San Antonio or Toronto? You're probably not getting a better deal from those cities than what any team already has. Ironically it's the California cities who seem the most reluctant to fork out public money so I don't see anywhere for those owners to realistically go other than LA that will actually make enough extra money to pay off a relocation fee. Either way Stan may very well be scorching the Earth behind him for other owners.

I don't think so, if he was then so would the Carson project, and I don't see it. I think Toronto would be a city that the NFL starts looking at closer, there's quite a bit of money there, and they enjoy their sports. The problem is the NFL wants to be the big show in town, and they're not passing the Leafs in that city. However they can easily fill a stadium anyway.

I'm not sold on San Antonio at all.

 

[The Ripper]

I'm not so sure building a stadium before being sure is a smart move. Without a team the ROI would be way to small to try and pay off a billion dollars. Stan may start on the parking lot, but I doubt the stadium. The land is worth too much developed to put a random stadium up.

Not if it's part of the the Olympic plans and other events that they have proposed.