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[blue4]

Not going to reply to specific posts, but some general comments on recent posts.

I don't find the idea that Stan or Demoff has communicated ideas of what they want for a new stadium here credible. It would be the best kept secret since the cold war if they had. And if they had, can you see us just saying no?

Until more than one major news sources , not radio host or opinion columnist, says that the pendalum has moved one direction or another I can't see putting much stock in it.

Dierdorf has called for action long before this moment. Of course, a guy spending no money and responsible for nothing and answerable to no constituents can say that. We've all said that at one time or another. But the idea that we start building a new stadium years before one is actually needed is about as realistic as me buying my own team.

If we had built him a new stadium before this, why would we think it would meet his "requirements"?

If all Stan wants is a stadium that hosts a SB, he could build one right here for I'd guess half of what he's going to pay in LA. Not counting legal and relocation fees. This is the giant flaw in the "I have no choice but to move" argument. He obviously is willing to spend far and away more than is needed to get to where he wants here.

Every one has their own opinion on this, but I find the idea that Stan came to the initial dome negotiations all friendly and helpful and willing to work with St Louis ridiculous. The notion that the city of St Louis would essentially dare him to move I also find extremely hard to believe. What I believe is Stan made an offer designed to force arbitration and designed to be turned down. Then instead of discussing a new stadium with someone of importance, which if he wanted at all to stay would have been the logical thing to do, he stops all communication and in the blink of an eye unveils a multi billion stadium plan in CA complete with partners and plans for surrounding area. Like I said, everyone has their own opinion. Myself, I think the facts paint a pretty compelling picture of a man who had no intention of staying here whatsoever. The only thing that I think has not gone according to his plan is Carson.

 

[RamFan503]

If it was so easy I'd imagine they'd have buyer - but I think you're missing the point. SD's proposal is full of contingencies; St.Louis is only contingent on the court's ruling.. SD is not

Who is going to buy land that is not even for sale yet?

 

[RamFan503]

Dierdorf has called for action long before this moment. Of course, a guy spending no money and responsible for nothing and answerable to no constituents can say that.

He was part of the CVC at the time.

If all Stan wants is a stadium that hosts a SB, he could build one right here for I'd guess half of what he's going to pay in LA. Not counting legal and relocation fees. This is the giant flaw in the "I have no choice but to move" argument. He obviously is willing to spend far and away more than is needed to get to where he wants here.

If Stan has figured out that there is no ROI by building a stadium in St Louis, or paying hundreds of millions to pay rent there then the "I have no choice but to move" argument holds water. I don't have access to the information he has no doubt gathered. I wasn't involved in the discussions when the Rams waived the 2005 requirements in exchange for assurances by the CVC and leading up to arbitration. I don't know if Stan views the actions of the CVC as disingenuous and acting in bad faith.

But if everyone knew the top tier status could not be obtained in 1994 or 2005 or? Why wait until Stan buys land in Inglewood and then forms a partnership to build a stadium to start working on a plan? I don't buy that there was this sudden ability to come up with a plan unless the people empowered to do it all along have been dicking the dog on this.

Sorry but it actually kind of pisses me off and I don't even live in St Louis. In my opinion, we wouldn't even be talking about this if the very people who should have heeded Dierdorf and others' words had done so. We'd just be talking about the 2015 season for our St Louis Rams.

Myself, I think the facts paint a pretty compelling picture of a man who had no intention of staying here whatsoever. The only thing that I think has not gone according to his plan is Carson.

You may be right but I don't believe so. Unfortunately, I can't tell you you are wrong cuz you have every possibility of being right.

 

[blue4]

He was part of the CVC at the time.


If Stan has figured out that there is no ROI by building a stadium in St Louis, or paying hundreds of millions to pay rent there then the "I have no choice but to move" argument holds water. I don't have access to the information he has no doubt gathered. I wasn't involved in the discussions when the Rams waived the 2005 requirements in exchange for assurances by the CVC and leading up to arbitration. I don't know if Stan views the actions of the CVC as disingenuous and acting in bad faith.

But if everyone knew the top tier status could not be obtained in 1994 or 2005 or? Why wait until Stan buys land in Inglewood and then forms a partnership to build a stadium to start working on a plan? I don't buy that there was this sudden ability to come up with a plan unless the people empowered to do it all along have been dicking the dog on this.

Sorry but it actually kind of pisses me off and I don't even live in St Louis. In my opinion, we wouldn't even be talking about this if the very people who should have heeded Dierdorf and others' words had done so. We'd just be talking about the 2015 season for our St Louis Rams.


You may be right but I don't believe so. Unfortunately, I can't tell you you are wrong cuz you have every possibility of being right.

Like I said, heeding Dierdorf would have been a political nonstarter here. And I bet it'd be a political nonstarter in 90% of the cities in America. It's easy as hell for Dierdorf to say. We've all kicked it around for years. How can something like that be sold? Vote to extend bonds for a stadium that's needed some time down the road? It's just not realistic, and a man who deals with city governments on a daily basis no doubt knows that. I've no doubt that the city leaders knew that as well as we did but they're elected officials. There's a limit to what they can get done. The reason there's a perception of a "miracle sudden plan" is because there is political cover now to move.

Also, if Stan was unhappy with things leading up to this, FOR GOD'S SAKE DO AN INTERVIEW SO THE POPULATION CAN KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING!!!!! Its kind of passive aggressive borderline childish to sit and sulk quietly hoping that we read his mind. Step up and say, "I've bought this land, I need this new stadium here to get started or I can look at other options. " Don't want to give up the mystery of "Silent Stan"? Have Demoff do it. Putting pressure on the city doesn't require much PR ability, nor does it require taking your ball and moving. Wouldn't all this seem to be the logical things to do if you wanted to stay? Isn't the argument love the team, not the owner? Can't we expect him to appreciate the loyal fan base without liking the city gov? It strikes me as completely childish and self absorbed.

Maybe I'd be more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt if he wasn't heavily involved in doing THIS EXACT SAME THING TO LA. People forget that he's the owner with the most experience moving a team that a city wants to keep. He learned from the master.

It just strikes me as funny that people seem to be in awe of his "genius" but at the same time believe he was stymied by evil city employees.

But like you said, who knows?

 

[Goose]

Did Randy say if that somebody was actually a somebody and not just a ball boy or something? "Somebody" told that chick in LA that the Rams were announcing they were moving in August too...

I didn't hear when he said it or in what context I just found the tweet. I did go to his timeline and he corrected someone that he said it was some in the league not the league office. It really comes down to how much faith you have in Randy.

 

[The Ripper]

I didn't here when he said it or in what context I just found the tweet. I did go to his timeline and he mentioned that he corrected someone that he said it was some in the league not the league office. It really comes down to how much faith you have in Randy.

The question is not really Randy but his source.

 

[ChrisW]

Who is going to buy land that is not even for sale yet?

Which land are you talking about?

 

[The Ripper]

Which land are you talking about?

The land in SD that the city plans to sell as part of the financing.

 

[drasconis]

He was part of the CVC at the time.

But if everyone knew the top tier status could not be obtained in 1994 or 2005 or? Why wait until Stan buys land in Inglewood and then forms a partnership to build a stadium to start working on a plan? I don't buy that there was this sudden ability to come up with a plan unless the people empowered to do it all along have been dicking the dog on this.

Sorry but it actually kind of pisses me off and I don't even live in St Louis. In my opinion, we wouldn't even be talking about this if the very people who should have heeded Dierdorf and others' words had done so. We'd just be talking about the 2015 season for our St Louis Rams.

You may be right but I don't believe so. Unfortunately, I can't tell you you are wrong cuz you have every possibility of being right.

I honestly think the local area drug its feet...it is the natural state for politics (so I actually lay no blame for this). No matter when you do it it looks like "charity" for a billionaire, remember we were in a recession (and may still be). Look at other stadium situation...the most comparable to me was Minn. That got dragged out and no real action occurred until threats started.

I give Stan full credit on gettng this moving FAST...the "normal" process is the organization starts saying they need a new stadium, they and the community bounce it around fora few years hemming and hawwing, finally the team starts threatening to leave, the city/state takes it more serious....and a deal gets done. Stan has skipped straight to the end...

 

[tahoe]

The question is not really Randy but his source.

I don't think Randy would have mentioned it if he thought it was a sketchy source.

 

[tahoe]

I honestly think the local area drug its feet...it is the natural state for politics (so I actually lay no blame for this). No matter when you do it it looks like "charity" for a billionaire, remember we were in a recession (and may still be). Look at other stadium situation...the most comparable to me was Minn. That got dragged out and no real action occurred until threats started.

I give Stan full credit on gettng this moving FAST...the "normal" process is the organization starts saying they need a new stadium, they and the community bounce it around fora few years hemming and hawwing, finally the team starts threatening to leave, the city/state takes it more serious....and a deal gets done. Stan has skipped straight to the end...

You do have to give Kroenke credit for applying huge amounts of leverage to get the area to move very fast to put together the stadium.

 

[dbrooks25]

Because he won in arbitration

Has nothing to do with the new stadium, however.

 

[iced]

Revenue comes from developing the site just like any commercial property.

Securing the land is a little easier since it doesn't have to be purchased from individual land owners. Their financing is a lot easier than extending bonds on property and using it for another. The rest of the financing in St Louis isn't in question except maybe the city donating land.

The NFL has proven they are not going to wait on this process. If the construction can't start when the NFL says go, they won't entertain it - especially if they believe lawsuits will delay it.

Then I guess Carson is out.

was talking about the home city's - St.Louis and SD's plans.

 

[RamFan503]

Has nothing to do with the new stadium, however.

That's an opinion. But I find it hard to believe that top tier status won't at least be part of the approval criteria for the new stadium. I'm not saying that there will be a clause like the dome but that when the project is approved and built, it will likely have to reach that status. It may be the only way the NFL can approve the new stadium, make a case to turn down Stan in his quest to the west, and save face among the owners. If the project falls short of doing that, I think the project is going nowhere.

 

[RamFan503]

was talking about the home city's - St.Louis and SD's plans.

I don't recall seeing that caveat.

 

[iced]

was talking about the home city's - St.Louis and SD's plans.

I don't recall seeing that caveat.

That's his quote, not mine.

The NFL has repeated several times land and financing needs to be secure - anything that is not a lock or if they really do believe will be delayed with Lawsuits won't be viable. I'm not talking about spanos, I'm talking about the committee.

I'm really curious to see how if the Mayor of SD goes to the NFL how they're gonna change their plans - there's a lot not to like about it

 

[RamFan503]

That's his quote, not mine.

The NFL has repeated several times land and financing needs to be secure - anything that is not a lock or if they really do believe will be delayed with Lawsuits won't be viable. I'm not talking about spanos, I'm talking about the committee.

I'm really curious to see how if the Mayor of SD goes to the NFL how they're gonna change their plans - there's a lot not to like about it

I mean that Carson doesn't also have the time requirement to satisfy.

 

[iced]

I mean that Carson doesn't also have the time requirement to satisfy.

Ah, gotcha. I don't think there's a time issue for LA - time is working against the home cities.

 

[bluecoconuts]

I mean that Carson doesn't also have the time requirement to satisfy.

Have to imagine it's even more important for Carson and Inglewood to meet time requirements, since the teams will be renting out temporary venues for the construction process. Carson is already taking a long time even without delays, if something gets snagged up, as they so often do, it could really hurt the NFLs chances at sticking the landing in LA. Same with Inglewood, but they probably have a wider margin for error due to having two years on Carson.

 

[12intheBox]

So - 467 pages in - have we figured out who is winning?