New: Latest on Kroenke, Rams and NFL in STL

[D L]

I'm about done with the NFL.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Well, we certainly know what screw you I'm taking the team feels like.

End of the day it doesn't matter. If Stan stays it will be because he is forced to.

Yeah, probably.. Hopefully he decides he would like to stay, I really don't want to have to make extra trips back to LA if I ever want to watch the Rams, instead of knocking it out when I'm in St Louis.

Really I don't give a shit where they play, they could play in a cardboard box, just put a winning team on the field. If I have to pick, I'd rather them stay. I'm like you where I'm just pessimistic at this point.

 

[dieterbrock]

by the way Stan has been quoted as saying he worked to get the Rams in St Louis and he will step up again for St Louis, im sure Bernie thought his intentions were clear too. guess what, Stan isnt telling any reporters his intentions, its all a guessing game.

But Peacock is stating Kroenke's intentions, does his opinion hold water?

 

[Sum1]

There isn't a word that comes from the Rams side that I believe...at least not through public outlets.

Caught wind today that training camp in St. Louis will be only 12 days. They will spend 4 days at the Dallas location and stay in California the remainder because they play the Raiders.

If you believe it is only coincidence...well, go for it.

I don't believe this means that all hope is lost for the team to remain in St. Louis, but I also won't put any stock into anything Demoff or any other public Rams official has to say.

 

[iced]

Just because that's what he offered, that's not what he had, he may be more willing to do spend more in another place. I just don't see him be able to come up with close to a billion in LA, then that same cost of moving and a much higher relocation fee.

he only needed $300 more million to get the stadium built - which i'm sure he was hoping from for the public... that'd be $600 from him... he'd need $450 just for St.Louis without relocation fee's and before costs of moving, and its well known he doesn't have deep pockets.If he could afford to stay in Oakland,he would have.

I don't know, but it goes to show you can't expect a team to be a winner every year. So how do you get fan support when the team isn't good? How do you get fans to go to a game instead of sitting at home and watching from the comfort of their couch? Offer the complete package.

Lol they have that support here - and if anyone could guarantee that to a billionaire, well...you get the idea

Because if that's not the deal he wants its not what he wants. San Diego is offering deals to the Chargers, but Spanos is saying not to even bother because its not downtown, meaning its not what he wants. So why is that good faith but Kroenke not? Because its been longer? So all the times Spanos has told San Diego to try again is okay, but if Kroenke says no he HAS to accept the deal? I don't see it.

You act like San Diego or Oakland has put up the public funds in a stadium proposal or actually made a legit offer like the Riverfront, which has not been the case. They've been extremely reluctant to use public funds for some time now - I keep saying this and you keep brushing it aside as if ts not some crucial factor when it is.

I dunno, when the pointman of one project is saying they may latch on to another project, I think it means something. That doesn't mean that definitely happens, but he could have said they weren't exploring that option at the time.

And who is the pointman you're referring to?

But either way, Inglewood isn't going to ONLY house the Rams unless Oakland and San Diego figure things out and keep their teams, which then it doesn't matter. Inglewood has the ability to house two teams, so if the Chargers can't fix things in San Diego they can go there. Ultimately they give up a large majority of his fanbase in San Diego, who won't want to root for an LA team on principal.

it's not a done deal that they'll house two teams - for all you know Spanos and davis were prefer to get their own route then go with kroenke.

I think its very telling how spanos has reacted to this situation and the statements he's mad regarding kroenke moving and him willing to fight. Considering that and them being unwilling as it is, it only makes me believe even more that it's unlikely those two will share a stadium

 

[RamFan503]

he would be investing $250 mill and the g4 loan (with which the owner is not on the hook for all of the money, they also get grants for them..in Atlanta, they got $50 million that doesn't have to be repaid back)
http://newstadium.atlantafalcons.com/funding2/g-4-stadium-financing/

Right - but according to that, he is on the hook for at least $50 million of it. So add that to his $250 million and you get $300 million. Or is my math fuzzy?

 

[RamFan503]

why go with these so called "pro's"? do they have Stans limo bugged?

Falling on deaf ears. 2105 is the poster formerly known as Dick84. He is gone.

 

[The Ripper]

Falling on deaf ears. 2105 is the poster formerly known as Dick84. He is gone.

I thought that it was him

 

[iced]

Right - but according to that, he is on the hook for at least $50 million of it. So add that to his $250 million and you get $300 million. Or is my math fuzzy?

And $100 million comes out of future revenues.

But let it be known that Known that in the Atlanta deals they are spending less in Public money ($200 million) and Vikings owner is spending more than Kroenke (Wolf is $525 million if not more now, $462 in public money).



The Rams offer is right on par with the latest stadiums. If anything its a better deal than the Vikings

 

[tonyl711]

But Peacock is stating Kroenke's intentions, does his opinion hold water?

not to me it dont, he is not stating Stans intentions, he is stating what he thinks Stans intentions are. Stan does things that alot of people wouldnt consider doing, his brother in law was going to buy Denver hockey team and Stan back doored him and bought it himself out from under brother in laws nose, so no i dont think anyone but Stan knows his true intentions.

 

[bluecoconuts]

he only needed $300 more million to get the stadium built - which i'm sure he was hoping from for the public... that'd be $600 from him... he'd need $450 just for St.Louis without relocation fee's and before costs of moving, and its well known he doesn't have deep pockets.If he could afford to stay in Oakland,he would have.

Yeah, what I'm saying is how do we know he can't afford a move to St Louis? Just because he didn't want to spend more for a different stadium, maybe it wasn't a good enough investment? Maybe he sees a fresh start in St Louis as a good enough reason to spend more? He's willing to spend more in LA? I'm not sure what Davis or the Raiders can't afford, but if he can't afford St Louis, and he can't afford Oakland, I don't see how he affords LA. And if he can't afford any of the three then he probably can't afford an NFL team.

Lol they have that support here - and if anyone could guarantee that to a billionaire, well...you get the idea

They could but they don't, that's part of the problem.

You act like San Diego or Oakland has put up the public funds in a stadium proposal or actually made a legit offer like the Riverfront, which has not been the case. They've been extremely reluctant to use public funds for some time now - I keep saying this and you keep brushing it aside as if ts not some crucial factor when it is.

They both have discussed it, and San Diego has discussed getting the county involved, which Fabiani shat on. These cities are reluctant to use public funds, but if they had the state backing them it would be easier. Imagine how it would go down if ONLY the city was being asked to pay. I don't think they can afford it. That's the biggest problem they have. Its not just simply because they don't want to.

And who is the pointman you're referring to?

Fabiani, he's currently serving as a "special council" to Spanos.

it's not a done deal that they'll house two teams - for all you know Spanos and davis were prefer to get their own route then go with kroenke.

I think its very telling how spanos has reacted to this situation and the statements he's mad regarding kroenke moving and him willing to fight. Considering that and them being unwilling as it is, it only makes me believe even more that it's unlikely those two will share a stadium

No, but it's a done deal that it can house two teams, that's what matters.

Most of the comments from Spanos came during the very start of all of this, since Carson popped up, he hasn't really said much. I don't know when the last time they've mentioned Inglewood or Kroenke, but the last I remember was the interview when Fabiani said it was a possibility they join Kroenke.

But let it be known that Known that in the Atlanta deals they are spending less in Public money ($200 million) and Vikings owner is spending more than Kroenke (Wolf is $525 million if not more now, $462 in public money).



The Rams offer is right on par with the latest stadiums. If anything its a better deal than the Vikings

You can't compare anything to what other cities are doing and say that's the standard, and Kroenke has to accept that deal. Every city is different, every owner has different things he wants to do. If Kroenke feels that the riverfront stadium isn't for him, then there isn't a thing St Louis can do, they can't force him to buy into it.

 

[The Ripper]

Spanos hasn't said a word every comment that's attributed to him cam from Fabiani. Including that there was a possibility that the Chargers would sue to keep a team out of LA, that "Spanos" had the votes to block Kroenke, G4 loans available for Carson and on and on.

 

[iced]

Spanos hasn't said a word every comment that's attributed to him cam from Fabiani. Including that there was a possibility that the Chargers would sue to keep a team out of LA, that "Spanos" had the votes to block Kroenke, G4 loans available for Carson and on and on.

actually he has said in the past he believes he can get the votes to block his move.. Not Fabiani, Spanos.

http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLc...pe/ArticleView/articleId/15932/Cole-Chargers-
Owner-Will-Try-Blocking-Kroenke-From-Los-Angeles-Move.aspx

San Diego Chargers owner Dean Spanos says he will attempt to block Rams owner Stan Kroenke from relocating to Los Angeles,according to Bleacher Report's Jason Cole.
To relocate, a team must get the approval of 24 owners. Spanos says he believes he has the nine votes to prevent Kroenke from moving.

 

[RamFan503]

And $100 million comes out of future revenues.

But let it be known that Known that in the Atlanta deals they are spending less in Public money ($200 million) and Vikings owner is spending more than Kroenke (Wolf is $525 million if not more now, $462 in public money).



The Rams offer is right on par with the latest stadiums. If anything its a better deal than the Vikings

But unknown is what deals are in place and being offered to the different owners in exchange for their money. I'm not even defending Stan's position here. I just don't see - maybe because I just don't know - what the ROI being offered amounts to. Does anyone here know?

I have said all along that I believe Stan's first option has always been to stay in St Louis. With all the work he's done to bring the NFL back to St Louis, it just doesn't make sense that he would change direction unless the money was SO much better or that he was somehow soured on the market for whatever reason.

I agree that it appears that his goal is LA or bust, but we can't honestly know that. We also don't know that he is not still trying to leverage for the best deal he can get. The money he is spending right now might very well pale in comparison to what his leverage might bring. For him to show his cards right now IMO would be unwise. Might he have done more if a serious offer was placed before? Dunno. Is he just playing this thing out to get as much as he can? Dunno. Is there anything that forces his hand to disclose that until the eleventh hour? Doesn't look like it to me.

I think we know that Inglewood is a potential option for him. I don't think any of us know that St Louis isn't his end game. But I personally don't see the real tangible benefit for him to stop pressing now. Sure he could garner some immediate fan love. But 5, 10, 30 years down the road, how does this affect his position and his heirs situation. I think that if he stays, there will be some bitter fans but most will care more about what the team does. It's not like there haven't been team owners that the fans disliked. It's quite common. Hell - if that were the case, why would Raiduh fan show up at all and what LA fan would want him back?

And I really don't think that matters to Stan in the here and now. He has a limited time to get his best deal because - again IMO - this will be the last time he has to deal with this in regards to his ownership of an NFL team. Once it's done, it will be in most fans' rear view mirrors in a year or two - maybe less.

 

[RamFan503]

actually he has said in the past he believes he can get the votes to block his move.. Not Fabiani, Spanos.

http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLc...pe/ArticleView/articleId/15932/Cole-Chargers-
Owner-Will-Try-Blocking-Kroenke-From-Los-Angeles-Move.aspx

Not a direct quote and I don't buy that Spanos gave an interview to Cole. Fabiani on the other hand loves the spotlight and hasn't found a microphone he doesn't like.

 

[The Ripper]

actually he has said in the past he believes he can get the votes to block his move.. Not Fabiani, Spanos.

http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLc...pe/ArticleView/articleId/15932/Cole-Chargers-
Owner-Will-Try-Blocking-Kroenke-From-Los-Angeles-Move.aspx

Jason Cole got it from Fabiani not directly from Spanos. He's also the reporter that blew the story all out of proportion on the Raiders switching conference and the Seahawks moving to the AFC

 

[iced]

Jason Cole got it from Fabiani not directly from Spanos.

certainly does not say that it in his article - he keeps attributing it to Spanos himself.

However if Fabiani works for Spanos it wouldn't surprise me if he repeated his boss's sentiments after the fact

 

[blue4]

Yeah, what I'm saying is how do we know he can't afford a move to St Louis? Just because he didn't want to spend more for a different stadium, maybe it wasn't a good enough investment? Maybe he sees a fresh start in St Louis as a good enough reason to spend more? He's willing to spend more in LA? I'm not sure what Davis or the Raiders can't afford, but if he can't afford St Louis, and he can't afford Oakland, I don't see how he affords LA. And if he can't afford any of the three then he probably can't afford an NFL team.



They could but they don't, that's part of the problem.



They both have discussed it, and San Diego has discussed getting the county involved, which Fabiani shat on. These cities are reluctant to use public funds, but if they had the state backing them it would be easier. Imagine how it would go down if ONLY the city was being asked to pay. I don't think they can afford it. That's the biggest problem they have. Its not just simply because they don't want to.



Fabiani, he's currently serving as a "special council" to Spanos.



No, but it's a done deal that it can house two teams, that's what matters.

Most of the comments from Spanos came during the very start of all of this, since Carson popped up, he hasn't really said much. I don't know when the last time they've mentioned Inglewood or Kroenke, but the last I remember was the interview when Fabiani said it was a possibility they join Kroenke.




You can't compare anything to what other cities are doing and say that's the standard, and Kroenke has to accept that deal. Every city is different, every owner has different things he wants to do. If Kroenke feels that the riverfront stadium isn't for him, then there isn't a thing St Louis can do, they can't force him to buy into it.

In regards to the Raiders financials, I agree that no one knows what they've got. Davis has pledged $500 million before. So we know he's got the means to buy in on our stadium. What we don't know is how much the relocation fee will be, how much Davis can actually get past what he's already said he has, and how much he can raise from the other shareholders of the Raiders. Allowing Davis to move may well prove worth waiving the relocation fee. We don't know how much losing the STL market will cost the NFL and by extension the other owners. And 4 teams in California is an over saturation of that market. IMO of course.

 

[iced]

Yeah, what I'm saying is how do we know he can't afford a move to St Louis? Just because he didn't want to spend more for a different stadium, maybe it wasn't a good enough investment? Maybe he sees a fresh start in St Louis as a good enough reason to spend more? He's willing to spend more in LA? I'm not sure what Davis or the Raiders can't afford, but if he can't afford St Louis, and he can't afford Oakland, I don't see how he affords LA. And if he can't afford any of the three then he probably can't afford an NFL team.

http://www.insidesocal.com/nfl/2015...-you-are-running-out-of-time-to-keep-raiders/

The biggest question is money, according to the Chronicle.

Davis says he wants to stay in Oakland but doesn’t have the deep pockets to pay for what is likely to be a $1 billion replacement for the Coliseum, even with help from the league.

At the same time, city and county officials have made it clear that they won’t dip into their general fund to pay for a new stadium.

A move to St.Louis is going to cost him anywhere between $600 - $900 million when you consider relocation fees (100 to 500m), cost of moving, and his share of stadium (450).

I don't believe he can afford it, and I don't believe the league is going to bend over backwards to reward him with St.Louis either.

They could but they don't, that's part of the problem.

Well alienating a fan base or giving that perception isn't helping his cause either.

They both have discussed it, and San Diego has discussed getting the county involved, which Fabiani shat on. These cities are reluctant to use public funds, but if they had the state backing them it would be easier. Imagine how it would go down if ONLY the city was being asked to pay. I don't think they can afford it. That's the biggest problem they have. Its not just simply because they don't want to.

But that's not how we're asking here - and as it looks, if the owners are gonna have to foot the bills themselves they're gonna build their own awesome stadium in LA.

At least Kroenke can claim he had an option - Davis and Spanos have never had anything resembling a realistic offer

You can't compare anything to what other cities are doing and say that's the standard, and Kroenke has to accept that deal. Every city is different, every owner has different things he wants to do. If Kroenke feels that the riverfront stadium isn't for him, then there isn't a thing St Louis can do, they can't force him to buy into it.

I never said Kroenke had to accept that deal - that was to the people saying saying the deal in St.Louis isn't that good or adequate when its clearly on par with newer stadiums in the league.

They can't force him to buy it - but the NFL also can restrict him from leaving, and give the LA option to Chargers/Raiders.. 2 teams in 1 stadium, solving 2 teams stadium issues lacking alternative options?

If stan doesn't want to keep the team in LA - fine, sell it. I'm all for Peacock finding new ownership if it comes to that.

 

[iced]

In regards to the Raiders financials, I agree that no one knows what they've got. Davis has pledged $500 million before. So we know he's got the means to buy in on our stadium. What we don't know is how much the relocation fee will be, how much Davis can actually get past what he's already said he has, and how much he can raise from the other shareholders of the Raiders. Allowing Davis to move may well prove worth waiving the relocation fee. We don't know how much losing the STL market will cost the NFL and by extension the other owners. And 4 teams in California is an over saturation of that market. IMO of course.

I agree with all of this except for the relocation fee - Owners have never waived it in the past, and definitely don't see them doing it for the Davis family of all families (you know, the same one that has dragged the NFL into court in the past over relocation and fee's)