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iced

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I don't know if he does either, but you'd have to think it was something he thought about years ago when he started putting the plan into motion, it's not like he doesn't know the cost.

you mean when he was preaching faith to St.Louis?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5121918

ST. LOUIS -- Billionaire Stan Kroenke says he wants to keep the Rams in St. Louis.

"I'm going to attempt to do everything that I can to keep the Rams in St. Louis," Kroenke told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. "Just as I did everything that I could to bring the team to St. Louis in 1995. I believe my actions speak for themselves."

The comments are his first since announcing he wants to buy the 60 percent of the team he doesn't yet own.

"There's a track record," Kroenke told the newspaper. "I've always stepped up for pro football in St. Louis. And I'm stepping up one more time."

Illinois businessman Shahid Khan is also bidding for the 60 percent stake in the Rams. Kroenke declined to comment on details of his bid and he has not returned repeated calls from The Associated Press.

The team's majority owner and chairman, Chip Rosenbloom, told the Post-Dispatch, "There's no reason to believe that Stan would be anything less than committed to St. Louis."

Rosenbloom said in an e-mail to The Associated Press that he couldn't comment on details of the sales process.

Kroenke lives in Columbia, Mo. He also owns the NBA's Denver Nuggets and the NHL's Colorado Avalanche.

"I'm born and raised in Missouri," Kroenke told the newspaper. "I've been a Missourian for 60 years. People in our state know me. People know I can be trusted. People know I am an honorable guy."
 

LesBaker

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Come on man. You're making up stadium developers now. There is no moron ready to build the Carson project for Davis/Spanos to rent from. He is as fictitious as your relocation fee. :fighting:

I've seen estimates that the housing units alone would be worth an ADDITIONAL $300 million with a stadium as part of the project. How many millions more is the hotel and retail/commercial worth? Who else has a partnership with an outfit that manages $9 Billion in properties? What other stadium project is 300 acres with concert venue and lakes, upscale housing, shopping, lodging, restaurants......? It's a huge undertaking with the potential to make Stan and his partners vast sums of money.

Sorry man but by your logic, there is no reason to even think some team might relocate. No team is going to pay a billion to relocate and then pay it off with increased ticket values alone.

I think the thing that gives Stan the most leverage out of all of this is that he actually has a workable plan that CAN be a money maker. I think most people that have actually looked at it recognize that. If not, where is the real threat? I just hope for the St Louis fan base that no one with power over the negotiations views the Inglewood project the same way you do. If they do, I fear we are going to find out just how much money is to be made by Stan et al with this project.

My mistake I thought someone was building the stadium that SD and OAK were going to move into. I didn't bother to read much about it after I read it was going to be built on a dump site. That is a death sentence.

I think it's dangerous, bordering on foolish, to just assume that SK and the pictures and undeveloped plans can be a money maker. There is HUGE risk and the article I mentioned pointed that out. It's just not as simple as "wow they can build all this shit in a couple of years and make billions", there are serious risks that aren't being factored in by the sports talk radio crowd.

This isn't anywhere near as easy as "if you build it they will come". It's LA. It's sprawling, there are loads of options to go to and live in and dine in. IMO this plan has no more merit than the last two.

Let's see how it plays out. But my money is not going on SK moving the Rams to LA.

Find the article I mentioned and give it a read, you'll see a different angle and it's one that is as real as the "the Rams are moving to LA for sure".
 

LesBaker

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you mean when he was preaching faith to St.Louis?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5121918

ST. LOUIS -- Billionaire Stan Kroenke says he wants to keep the Rams in St. Louis.

"I'm going to attempt to do everything that I can to keep the Rams in St. Louis," Kroenke told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. "Just as I did everything that I could to bring the team to St. Louis in 1995. I believe my actions speak for themselves."

The comments are his first since announcing he wants to buy the 60 percent of the team he doesn't yet own.

"There's a track record," Kroenke told the newspaper. "I've always stepped up for pro football in St. Louis. And I'm stepping up one more time."

Illinois businessman Shahid Khan is also bidding for the 60 percent stake in the Rams. Kroenke declined to comment on details of his bid and he has not returned repeated calls from The Associated Press.

The team's majority owner and chairman, Chip Rosenbloom, told the Post-Dispatch, "There's no reason to believe that Stan would be anything less than committed to St. Louis."

Rosenbloom said in an e-mail to The Associated Press that he couldn't comment on details of the sales process.

Kroenke lives in Columbia, Mo. He also owns the NBA's Denver Nuggets and the NHL's Colorado Avalanche.

"I'm born and raised in Missouri," Kroenke told the newspaper. "I've been a Missourian for 60 years. People in our state know me. People know I can be trusted. People know I am an honorable guy."

IceIceBaby I have posted that more than once but people don't want to hear it.

Everyone has minds made up, and we will just have to wait until after the upcoming season to see what transpires.
 

iced

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IceIceBaby I have posted that more than once but people don't want to hear it.

Everyone has minds made up, and we will just have to wait until after the upcoming season to see what transpires.

i just think its funny everyone is talking about "look at Stan's actions" - sounds like to me he's saying the same thing about his past
 

RamFan503

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I don't get it, he's going to pay rent to himself? Or do you mean operating costs?
Much simpler way of what I was trying to say. If Stan builds it, he pays operating expenses. If someone rents out the Carson project, SD/Oak pay enough for the owner to make a profit on that rent. Huge difference.
Les IMO if St.. Louis allows Stan to develop the land around the stadium I think you're on to something, however, IMO, he will need assurances from the people of St. Louis to do that. In the end you could be right, but it's not just the stadium it's the ability to make money with everything around the stadium IMHO.

Not doubting he stays, but IMO, the land around the stadium is not the icing on the cake, it's the cake, the stadium is the icing.
Exactly.

BTW - how much more money will Stan supposedly make by paying his portion of the St Louis Stadium? We don't know if his rent would go up though I think we all assume it will. We can only assume he won't get any additional monies from parking or concessions, etc... Will ticket prices go up? If so, will people pay them? Will they go up enough to cover the $450 million they expect Stan to come up with? ($250 million out of pocket and $200 million G4 that will eventually have to be paid back)

The high risk higher reward deal is in Inglewood. But Stan brought the team to St Louis and hasn't said anything that he is moving to LA. I'm going with him pushing the limits of what he can get in St Louis and staying in his native state.
 

LesBaker

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i just think its funny everyone is talking about "look at Stan's actions" - sounds like to me he's saying the same thing about his past

I know.

But that doesn't make for good fodder.

It isn't fun to say "yaknow, SK may just wanna keep the Rams in STL, anyone wanna discuss that".

It doesn't sell, it doesn't generate clicks or hits and can't be teased in one liners on a homepage.

Everyone in the media and the NFL makes money by pimping out LA and using it as leverage. But that's NEVER the story when a team acts like it's going to move there, with or without stadium talk. It's like nobody wants to tell the Emperor he has no clothes!!!

Plot[edit]
A vain Emperor who cares about nothing except wearing and displaying clothes hires two swindlers who promise him the finest, best suit of clothes from a fabric invisible to anyone who is unfit for his position or "hopelessly stupid". The Emperor's ministers cannot see the clothing themselves, but pretend that they can for fear of appearing unfit for their positions and the Emperor does the same. Finally the swindlers report that the suit is finished, they mime dressing him and the Emperor marches in procession before his subjects. The townsfolk play along with the pretense, not wanting to appear unfit for their positions or stupid. Then a child in the crowd, too young to understand the desirability of keeping up the pretense, blurts out that the Emperor is wearing nothing at all and the cry is taken up by others. The Emperor cringes, suspects the assertion is true, but continues the procession.
 

RamFan503

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Let's see how it plays out. But my money is not going on SK moving the Rams to LA.
Mine too - just not for the reasons you mentioned.

Find the article I mentioned and give it a read, you'll see a different angle and it's one that is as real as the "the Rams are moving to LA for sure".
I read it. I don't remember the particulars but the guy has no where near the pedigree of developing properties and owning sports franchises as Stan. I also remember many holes in his arguments.

This isn't anywhere near as easy as "if you build it they will come". It's LA. It's sprawling, there are loads of options to go to and live in and dine in. IMO this plan has no more merit than the last two.

I know LA fairly well. If you do as well, you know that if you build something shiny, they WILL come and in droves. Take a trip around the Staples center during a game. Everything is packed and lots of money moved in to pay big bucks to be there.
 

bluecoconuts

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you mean when he was preaching faith to St.Louis?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5121918

ST. LOUIS -- Billionaire Stan Kroenke says he wants to keep the Rams in St. Louis.

"I'm going to attempt to do everything that I can to keep the Rams in St. Louis," Kroenke told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. "Just as I did everything that I could to bring the team to St. Louis in 1995. I believe my actions speak for themselves."

The comments are his first since announcing he wants to buy the 60 percent of the team he doesn't yet own.

"There's a track record," Kroenke told the newspaper. "I've always stepped up for pro football in St. Louis. And I'm stepping up one more time."

Illinois businessman Shahid Khan is also bidding for the 60 percent stake in the Rams. Kroenke declined to comment on details of his bid and he has not returned repeated calls from The Associated Press.

The team's majority owner and chairman, Chip Rosenbloom, told the Post-Dispatch, "There's no reason to believe that Stan would be anything less than committed to St. Louis."

Rosenbloom said in an e-mail to The Associated Press that he couldn't comment on details of the sales process.

Kroenke lives in Columbia, Mo. He also owns the NBA's Denver Nuggets and the NHL's Colorado Avalanche.

"I'm born and raised in Missouri," Kroenke told the newspaper. "I've been a Missourian for 60 years. People in our state know me. People know I can be trusted. People know I am an honorable guy."


I don't discount those statements, but they were made in 2010, and things can change. He made what most see as an unrealistic proposal to the CVC in 2012, and has done nothing else in St Louis. Since then he has bought land in Inglewood in 2014 and a year later announced he was building a stadium on it, and began checking off boxes for what was needed to accomplish that plan. He hasn't done anything in St Louis, given any reassurance since doing anything in LA, not a peep. I mean at what point do we take him seriously?

That's a big leap in logic to assume he put some "plan" in motion years ago. Did he help move the team to STL to move it back later? I'm not buying that.

I don't think it's a very big leap in logic, it's not like he woke up in January and said "Hey, lets do this."... He was eyeballing the land in 2013, talking to Mayor Butts for a while as well, I believe he may have contributed to his reelection campaign, and during his reelection speech the Mayor said he had a meeting with Kroenke in the next few days.
 

RamBill

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Riverfront stadium gets new frills, keeps some historic buildings
• By David Hunn

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_ef6a0bb2-b7c0-5c2b-b9fc-f849a888322b.html

ST. LOUIS • Gone are the light towers, the square Jumbotrons and the parking lot grids.

The newest plans for an open-air riverfront stadium add a translucent lip girding the arena, giant televisions that rise with the stadium walls and greener, more geometric parking.

They even keep a few historic buildings, deemed too important, so far, to bulldoze.

“It really gives me peace of mind,” said Jack Larrison, owner of Shady Jack’s Saloon on North Broadway, whose biker bar now stays. “I worried to death about relocating.”

The planning team has been meeting with landowners, utilities, the National Football League and St. Louis Rams management for weeks, said David Peacock, one of two planners assigned to the task by Gov. Jay Nixon.

The stadium plan, meant to persuade the NFL to keep the Rams in St. Louis, could cost as much as $985 million. If a team does not commit to St. Louis, the stadium will not be built.

The changes released Monday are mostly practical, Peacock said.

The Army Corps of Engineers asked the planners to keep lighting from affecting river traffic, and, at the same time, the design firm HOK was tracking wind patterns. So the light towers were scrapped and a roof lip developed to block wind and contain field lighting, angled downward instead of out.

Planners pushed club seats more to the center. And the angular end zone replay screens — six times bigger than the ones at the Edward Jones Dome, where the Rams now play — were developed to fit the rising line of the stadium wall. (All screens that big have to be custom-built, Peacock said, so the shape doesn’t matter.)

In addition, designers tentatively added a few elements. A green swath just west of the stadium looks an awful lot like a practice field, with team offices surrounding it; Peacock said it could also be a “kid zone,” or even more parking. The railroad, which once seemed an obstacle, is now almost entirely underground, much as it is under the Gateway Arch grounds.

Four tunnels extend under Interstate 44 from Bottle District parking, and connect with a sweeping pedestrian path into the stadium to the south.

And the stadium planners have begun talking to Great Rivers Greenway, the trails district, about extending the Riverfront Trail and public parks north from the Arch.

Locals want food, drink and relaxation opportunities along the riverfront, said Susan Trautman, Great Rivers’ executive director. The Arch grounds redevelopment offers some of that, she said, but the real opportunities are in the stretch leading toward the stadium.

“The connection from the greenway into the stadium is really important,” she said.

At the same time, the new arena loses a few seats, Peacock said, dropping from 64,000 to about 62,000. The new seats are wide, with as much leg room as any stadium in the league. But designers also wanted standing rooms, sponsor decks and plenty of open space.

Rams attendance hovers around 57,000 now, Peacock said. In the really good years, the team drew fans in the mid-60,000s. They don’t want to build a stadium with too many seats. “We’d love a packed house,” he said.

There’s still plenty of room for temporary seating, to accommodate big events like Super Bowls, should one come here.

Designers are also thinking of the niceties, Peacock said: center islands housing food and beer booths, wide entry portals into the arena, and few seating sections blocking field views from concession halls.

And, for now, yes, Shady Jack’s, and all of that strip down North Broadway, will stay.

“It’ll be a great little row of eating and drinking establishments,” said Downtown STL President Doug Woodruff, who is helping put together the land.

Larrison said he was getting frustrated with the uncertainty. “People are afraid to book events,” he said. “You’re costing me business.”

He’s ready to redo his beer taps, add a deck and insert a $15,000 register system. “Now I can start working on my plans for the summer,” he said.

“I’m always updating something,” he said. “It’s time for me to quit being so cheap and spend some money.”

Not everyone there is convinced.

NYP Corp., formerly Great Western Bag, occupies one of the buildings that would be spared under the new plan.

But Barry Roché, a 32-year employee, said he believes the company would be forced to leave even if the buildings were saved.

“I’m sure they’ll kick us out,” he said, “and renovate the buildings for fancy bars.”

Tim Bryant of the Post-Dispatch contributed to this report.
Stadium plan updates

• Historic buildings along North Broadway would stay.

• Railroad line would go underground.

• Translucent lip added to top edge of stadium would provide lighting and wind block.
 

RamFan503

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Isn't there nearly a million square feet of office space and retail space being discussed in the Inglewood development?

Have you read the article I mentioned yet?
Yes and yes. Are you saying that office and retail won't be sold/occupied right next to a completely new development in Inglewood with an 80,000 seat stadium, a 6,000 seat concert hall, the newly renovated Forum, a renovated casino, 2,500 - 3,000 new residences, a park with lakes, all within walking distance and 3 miles from LAX? Really? And some guy writing an article is supposed to sway me more than guys who actually do this for a living?

I don't remember the article in particular as there have been 136 pages and dozens of articles. But seeing as you are hanging your hat on it, maybe you could find it and provide a link.

I've read every post in this thread so I can say that I have read the article. Who is it from? What is his background? What points are he building his premise upon. Those are things I would generally look at.

I have done a lot of this stuff albeit on a much smaller scale. I managed a $30 million property that in the early stages I could not see how the place could expect any kind of return on investment. We had to build a sewage treatment plant and drill the deepest fresh water well in Oregon while building new roads, re-establishing a 9 hole golf course, and building 80 new home sites to add to the existing 280. It was insanity from my view at the time. But the owner was pretty experienced on how these things play out. I couldn't stand the guy but he knew how to work these deals. And amazingly what he had me do, penciled out when you looked at the long term. In fact, it worked out so well, he sold the damn place and cleared almost $5 million for his investors.

So I have a hard time now looking at this kind of project and even fathoming how Stan couldn't make money on it. He has 50 times the wherewithal that my old boss did. He has a project sitting in front of him that only money would keep anyone in the business from wanting to do. The thing I don't know is what he wants to do most. Is the football team more important to him? Is the combination of owning a team in a kick ass venue in his native state (as I suspect) most important to him? Is an endless chase for more money and bigger projects more important to him? I don't know. But I suspect we are going to find out.
 

RamFan503

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Riverfront stadium gets new frills, keeps some historic buildings
• By David Hunn

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_ef6a0bb2-b7c0-5c2b-b9fc-f849a888322b.html

ST. LOUIS • Gone are the light towers, the square Jumbotrons and the parking lot grids.

The newest plans for an open-air riverfront stadium add a translucent lip girding the arena, giant televisions that rise with the stadium walls and greener, more geometric parking.

They even keep a few historic buildings, deemed too important, so far, to bulldoze.

“It really gives me peace of mind,” said Jack Larrison, owner of Shady Jack’s Saloon on North Broadway, whose biker bar now stays. “I worried to death about relocating.”

The planning team has been meeting with landowners, utilities, the National Football League and St. Louis Rams management for weeks, said David Peacock, one of two planners assigned to the task by Gov. Jay Nixon.

The stadium plan, meant to persuade the NFL to keep the Rams in St. Louis, could cost as much as $985 million. If a team does not commit to St. Louis, the stadium will not be built.

The changes released Monday are mostly practical, Peacock said.

The Army Corps of Engineers asked the planners to keep lighting from affecting river traffic, and, at the same time, the design firm HOK was tracking wind patterns. So the light towers were scrapped and a roof lip developed to block wind and contain field lighting, angled downward instead of out.

Planners pushed club seats more to the center. And the angular end zone replay screens — six times bigger than the ones at the Edward Jones Dome, where the Rams now play — were developed to fit the rising line of the stadium wall. (All screens that big have to be custom-built, Peacock said, so the shape doesn’t matter.)

In addition, designers tentatively added a few elements. A green swath just west of the stadium looks an awful lot like a practice field, with team offices surrounding it; Peacock said it could also be a “kid zone,” or even more parking. The railroad, which once seemed an obstacle, is now almost entirely underground, much as it is under the Gateway Arch grounds.

Four tunnels extend under Interstate 44 from Bottle District parking, and connect with a sweeping pedestrian path into the stadium to the south.

And the stadium planners have begun talking to Great Rivers Greenway, the trails district, about extending the Riverfront Trail and public parks north from the Arch.

Locals want food, drink and relaxation opportunities along the riverfront, said Susan Trautman, Great Rivers’ executive director. The Arch grounds redevelopment offers some of that, she said, but the real opportunities are in the stretch leading toward the stadium.

“The connection from the greenway into the stadium is really important,” she said.

At the same time, the new arena loses a few seats, Peacock said, dropping from 64,000 to about 62,000. The new seats are wide, with as much leg room as any stadium in the league. But designers also wanted standing rooms, sponsor decks and plenty of open space.

Rams attendance hovers around 57,000 now, Peacock said. In the really good years, the team drew fans in the mid-60,000s. They don’t want to build a stadium with too many seats. “We’d love a packed house,” he said.

There’s still plenty of room for temporary seating, to accommodate big events like Super Bowls, should one come here.

Designers are also thinking of the niceties, Peacock said: center islands housing food and beer booths, wide entry portals into the arena, and few seating sections blocking field views from concession halls.

And, for now, yes, Shady Jack’s, and all of that strip down North Broadway, will stay.

“It’ll be a great little row of eating and drinking establishments,” said Downtown STL President Doug Woodruff, who is helping put together the land.

Larrison said he was getting frustrated with the uncertainty. “People are afraid to book events,” he said. “You’re costing me business.”

He’s ready to redo his beer taps, add a deck and insert a $15,000 register system. “Now I can start working on my plans for the summer,” he said.

“I’m always updating something,” he said. “It’s time for me to quit being so cheap and spend some money.”

Not everyone there is convinced.

NYP Corp., formerly Great Western Bag, occupies one of the buildings that would be spared under the new plan.

But Barry Roché, a 32-year employee, said he believes the company would be forced to leave even if the buildings were saved.

“I’m sure they’ll kick us out,” he said, “and renovate the buildings for fancy bars.”

Tim Bryant of the Post-Dispatch contributed to this report.
Stadium plan updates

• Historic buildings along North Broadway would stay.

• Railroad line would go underground.

• Translucent lip added to top edge of stadium would provide lighting and wind block.

Barry Roche aside, this all sounds pretty freaking cool.
 

Dagonet

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Just remember Stanley.. You do this and there's......

 

Dagonet

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I could prolly do a few more songs that are better.. But for the fear of getting banned I will hold off.. :cool:
 

Dagonet

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Ahhh.. What the hell... This is what Stanley will be doing.. :cool:

 

Dagonet

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This song goes out for Dave Peacock and Sam Bradford too.. Take it easy on me 503 and PT.. My last one now... :cool: Give that boy some freedom now...

 
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Dagonet

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And yes, that's a doobie in Sweat Meat's mouth.. :cool::shades:
 
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