My stupid questions

[XXXIVwin]

Ready for me to blow your mind?

Water... is not wet.

It's true. It's definitional, but yeah... water isn't wet.

Holy cow, I looked it up, and who woulda thunk there’s be a big internet debate on this.

Argument for:

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Argument against:


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ugyqOSUlR2A


Arguments split for and against:


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kScgHTlgY1w

For those in the “water is not wet” camp, a fun variation: if you pour some water on an ice cube, does the ice cube become wet?

Not sure where I stand on this, but the video “against” was kinda funny...

 

[dpjax]

Seems like a good place for this... When Brady (aka “The B*@ch”) Was flagged for that illegal forward pass in the last game and the Rams declined the penalty, why were the Bucs given the yards for the completion? Seems like the same rules should apply as intentional grounding, penalized yards and loss of down.

 

[XXXIVwin]

Seems like a good place for this... When Brady (aka “The B*@ch”) Was flagged for that illegal forward pass in the last game and the Rams declined the penalty, why were the Bucs given the yards for the completion? Seems like the same rules should apply as intentional grounding, penalized yards and loss of down.

Ooo, good one! How sure are you that the Bucs were awarded the yards of the “second” completion?

Edit: looked it up, and a second forward pass from behind the line of scrimmage does not result in loss of down. Not sure why.

Regardless, it was good to see Mr. Biotch make a stupid, bonehead mistake like that... what, did he think no one would notice, or forgot the rule? Idiot.

 

[jrry32]

Ooo, good one! How sure are you that the Bucs were awarded the yards of the “second” completion?

Edit: looked it up, and a second forward pass from behind the line of scrimmage does not result in loss of down. Not sure why.

Regardless, it was good to see Mr. Biotch make a stupid, bonehead mistake like that... what, did he think no one would notice, or forgot the rule? Idiot.

They need to change the rule.

 

[XXXIVwin]

They need to change the rule.

Looks like a second forward pass from BEYOND the line of scrimmage does incur loss of down, though. Not sure why they make the distinction.

https://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/11_Rule8_ForwardPass_BackPass_Fumble.pdf

 

[jrry32]

Looks like a second forward pass from BEYOND the line of scrimmage does incur loss of down, though. Not sure why they make the distinction.

https://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/11_Rule8_ForwardPass_BackPass_Fumble.pdf

Yeah, I pointed that out after the game because I couldn't understand why that was the ruling when whenever I've seen other illegal forward passes, it was a loss of down. They need to change the rule so that it is the same. Loss of down from that spot.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Yeah, I pointed that out after the game because I couldn't understand why that was the ruling when whenever I've seen other illegal forward passes, it was a loss of down. They need to change the rule so that it is the same. Loss of down from that spot.

I reckon you should email the Rams and convince them to make that rule change their suggestion to the rules committee in the off season.

Loss of down and a 10 yard penalty.

So dumb a team can benefit from a blatant illegal play.

.

 

[jrry32]

I reckon you should email the Rams and convince them to make that rule change their suggestion to the rules committee in the off season.

Loss of down and a 10 yard penalty.

So dumb a team can benefit from a blatant illegal play.

.

I don't think the Rams need my email. I have no doubt they're aware.

 

[Karate61]

Seems like a good place for this... When Brady (aka “The B*@ch”) Was flagged for that illegal forward pass in the last game and the Rams declined the penalty, why were the Bucs given the yards for the completion? Seems like the same rules should apply as intentional grounding, penalized yards and loss of down.

My son and I got in an argument during the game on this one. I believed since the Rams declined the penalty, there then was no penalty, and the ball was spotted where the play ended like any other play.

Are some penalties enforced that cannot be declined?

 

[dpjax]

Yeah, I would think if the penalty was declined that the ball should be spotted at the point where the second pass was attempted because at that point the ball would not be allowed to advance with another forward pass. At the time I was worried that the Bucs would go for it on 4th down because The Rams declining the penalty got them pretty close to a first down.

 

[XXXIVwin]

My son and I got in an argument during the game on this one. I believed since the Rams declined the penalty, there then was no penalty, and the ball was spotted where the play ended like any other play.

Are some penalties enforced that cannot be declined?

Yeah, that play was messed up.

Two completions on the same play? And Bucs get benefit of the “second completion” even though it was illegal?

Redirect Notice

NFL should definitely revisit this rule in the off-season.

Almost as if Brady was openly cheating, yet managed to benefit anyway

 

[CGI_Ram]

At the time I was worried that the Bucs would go for it on 4th down because The Rams declining the penalty got them pretty close to a first down.

Ditto. Not until the punt got away, I kept wondering if they might go for it there.

 

[leoram]

Ditto. Not until the punt got away, I kept wondering if they might go for it there.

In the moment, that was a tough question for McVay. The rule going forward should be the same as intentional grounding with loss of down. You shouldn't get an advantage from an illegal play.

 

[leoram]

Ready for me to blow your mind?

Water... is not wet.

It's true. It's definitional, but yeah... water isn't wet.

This requires further explanation. If WATER isn't wet, what the hell is?

 

[leoram]

The clock stops the last 2 min before the half. The last 5 min before the end of the game. It used to be for the whole game. But the NFL realized the more commercials during a game the more money the TV stations payed them. Games started to last 4 hrs and delayed 60 minutes, which at the time was a huge ratings getter and CBS complained. So they stopped stopping the clock every time someone went out of bounds, but they still wanted a team to be able to come back and we have what we have.

Therefore, the NFL is all about money...a complete sellout. A microcosm of political and actual life. I will train my mind to accept this though my rants against it will be posted here.

Rules should be predicated on competitive balance, not ratings. Mine is a pipe dream. Without money, the sport dies. Without the consistency of law, systems crumble. My greatest complaint: I wish sports and politics weren't governed by the same vagaries. But that's a thread for a different board.

 

[leoram]

Had to look this up.

Because it's specifically permitted by the intentional grounding rule.

Rule 8, section 2, article 1 of the NFL Rules:

Yes, they are considered a -1 yard rushing play. In multiple kneel down situations, they actually spot the ball at the site of the kneel down and it goes to 2nd and 11, 3rd and 12, etc. On a few occasions where they didn't want the QB to lose those rushing yards, they QB will lunge forward for a yard or two to preserve their stats, but it's awful rare.

Had to look this up.

Because it's specifically permitted by the intentional grounding rule.

Rule 8, section 2, article 1 of the NFL Rules:

Yes, they are considered a -1 yard rushing play. In multiple kneel down situations, they actually spot the ball at the site of the kneel down and it goes to 2nd and 11, 3rd and 12, etc. On a few occasions where they didn't want the QB to lose those rushing yards, they QB will lunge forward for a yard or two to preserve their stats, but it's awful rare.

I've thanked you for your input, but now I feel the need to dig deeper into your answers. My dig in is specific to the Bucs/Rams game.

4. Thank you for your clarity about the refs not wanting attention to a clearly subjective rule they are unwilling to enforce to the letter of the law that is written. To this point, I strongly suggest courage over expediency.

When Evans pushed down on Ramsey's head, it was a clear violation but one not likely to be overturned. When Evans pushed off Ramsey from a low position, there's a chance (though unlikely) that both players could've been flagged resulting in a do-over. I get the conundrum. There will never be perfect officiating but that doesn't mean they should shrink from doing the right thing.

3. I'm asking again for you to re-post your response to something I'm truly upset about. If a defender turns his back to to ball carrier by geometry, a blocker should not be flagged for doing his job.

5. If NY has the authority to review PF's, then what triggers their response and why can't that trigger come from a challenge. Again, the inconsistency is maddening.

7. Was this rule in place in the NFC Championship game with the Rams v Saints? I ask because in 56 years, I've never witnessed a team suffer from the inability to even hear something one foot away like that game. And I personally heard piped in music and noise OVER the crowd. That game was the impetus of my question.

(FWIW), Goff overcoming that and many other issues that day renders all arguments that he isn't a clutch, money, tough. F'ing stud, moot.

 

[LARams_1963]

The clock stops the last 2 min before the half. The last 5 min before the end of the game. It used to be for the whole game. But the NFL realized the more commercials during a game the more money the TV stations payed them. Games started to last 4 hrs and delayed 60 minutes, which at the time was a huge ratings getter and CBS complained. So they stopped stopping the clock every time someone went out of bounds, but they still wanted a team to be able to come back and we have what we have.

Thanks for the clarification. It's been driving me nuts

 

[majrleaged]

Therefore, the NFL is all about money...a complete sellout. A microcosm of political and actual life. I will train my mind to accept this though my rants against it will be posted here.

Rules should be predicated on competitive balance, not ratings. Mine is a pipe dream. Without money, the sport dies. Without the consistency of law, systems crumble. My greatest complaint: I wish sports and politics weren't governed by the same vagaries. But that's a thread for a different board.

As I have grown older I have learned that these are truths that in life and politics we have to be realistic about the motivations that rule us and when we see our chances we have to fight or be swallowed up and use for fertilizer. In sports we can rant so we can get over them or accept them, because otherwise we will hate them and loose all that we grew to love about them.

 

[majrleaged]

I've thanked you for your input, but now I feel the need to dig deeper into your answers. My dig in is specific to the Bucs/Rams game.

4. Thank you for your clarity about the refs not wanting attention to a clearly subjective rule they are unwilling to enforce to the letter of the law that is written. To this point, I strongly suggest courage over expediency.

When Evans pushed down on Ramsey's head, it was a clear violation but one not likely to be overturned. When Evans pushed off Ramsey from a low position, there's a chance (though unlikely) that both players could've been flagged resulting in a do-over. I get the conundrum. There will never be perfect officiating but that doesn't mean they should shrink from doing the right thing.

3. I'm asking again for you to re-post your response to something I'm truly upset about. If a defender turns his back to to ball carrier by geometry, a blocker should not be flagged for doing his job.

5. If NY has the authority to review PF's, then what triggers their response and why can't that trigger come from a challenge. Again, the inconsistency is maddening.

7. Was this rule in place in the NFC Championship game with the Rams v Saints? I ask because in 56 years, I've never witnessed a team suffer from the inability to even hear something one foot away like that game. And I personally heard piped in music and noise OVER the crowd. That game was the impetus of my question.

(FWIW), Goff overcoming that and many other issues that day renders all arguments that he isn't a clutch, money, tough. F'ing stud, moot.

Yea, I was outraged by what NO was doing to disrupt my offense. Then I was so proud of my team and Goff especially, because he lead that team thru that BS and won. The only way out is thru. I would say that shows a very special toughness that to many want to ignore.

 

[RamFan503]

Ready for me to blow your mind?

Water... is not wet.

It's true. It's definitional, but yeah... water isn't wet.

Oh sure. Now you're going to tell us the sky isn't blue.

Are some penalties enforced that cannot be declined?

I believe any penalty can be declined. Even in the case of illegal motion where a play never actually happened, the defense can decline it if they feel it gives a punter more room to pin a team - for example.