Michael Lombardi on Rams

[…..]

Here we go again..... what I took from that was not that it was total nonsense at all. What did you take from that discussion to desceibe it as total nonsense? It was just a guy talking about football and his past experience.

Are you say Bill Billecheck is total nonsense? He runs a "program" it seems.

Now Bill Walsh too?

The biggest thing I took from that segment was Lombardi relating the draft day story when Bill Walsh told a young excited talent scout to calm down because they were really only competing against 8 other teams.

Fucking genius. He eliminated 75% of his competition with a casual wave of a hand.

The Rams are currently part of that 75%. Other teams casually discount us right off the bat.

I hope we can turn that around some day soon.

 

[blackbart]

Interesting information and hearing it coming from Bill Walsh gives it all the credibility I need to hear. I wish the other talking heads could have kept their mouths shut and let Lombardi talk, I'd like to hear who he thinks the eight teams are.

Building a culture and a process are what the organization has talked about since Kronke took over. I hope they get it right with all the changes that are coming.

Harbaugh did not build the 49ers a lot of the talent he took to the playoffs was already there.

Fisher knew he needed a QB, Bradford is the reason he took the Rams job instead of the Dolphins.

 

[LACHAMP46]

I agree...You need football people to make football decisions...simple...All the decisions too...

I'd like to hear who he thinks the eight teams are.

I'll play...
Seattle
New England
Baltimore
Green Bay
Denver
Kansas City
New York Giants
Dallas? Oakland? Tampa Bay? Tennessee? Nope...
Pittsburg

One voice, one message, one team...

 

[Rambitious1]

Lombardi is so full of BS.

And regarding McDaniels, I had forgot about him getting caught taping the 49ers practice in London.
The apple does not fall far from the tree.........BillaCHEAT.

That's why you have to take all of these NE people with a grain of salt.
They come from a culture of dishonesty and cheating.

 

[Merlin]

It's funny because Lombardi says there are only 8 teams. That isn't for life, that is only right now. Who are the Patriots without Brady, or the Seahawks without Wilson. Who is Pittsburgh with no Big Ben? The 8 teams are good teams built around very good QBs. Where are the Niners right now? Where are the Dolphins?

The story with Bill Walsh does demonstrate the truth of things. In any given year you have that percentage of teams who are the ones you're worried about. Now things have changed a bit in the modern salary cap era, but then again teams that don't have the organization structured with good people at the top are going to fail even if they do get things right here and there.

Good example is our Rams from 1999. During that season Walsh was quoted as saying they needed to get that guy out of the division, meaning Martz. Not too long after that, Shaw and Ziggy were falling all over themselves to anoint Martz as the "Coach in Waiting" because they knew Mad Mike would be the belle of the offseason ball. At that point there was no thought to the fact that before Vermiel came aboard they had no clue on personnel, and in hindsight the quick erosion of the basic roster over the next few years after DV bailed out slid the Rams right back to the bottom.

Where Lombardi is wrong is that it has to start with bringing in the right guy. The Niners, who he uses in his example, were not one of those 8 before Walsh came onboard. They were one of the 8 because of him. Walsh filled the organization with good people, and made the good people that were there better. The Patriots made their first move to legitimize themselves as an organization with the hiring of Bill Parcells, and cemented it by taking a flyer on a top DC who had failed in Cleveland. You gotta start somewhere.

So back to the Rams the key is getting the right guy in here plain and simple. But, again, I think Stan is willing to do that and at this point I just pray they finally get it right.

 

[tempests]

freaking genius. He eliminated 75% of his competition with a casual wave of a hand.

There was no salary cap or free agency back then.

In a parity driven league where 75% of teams are still in the playoff hunt into December, I'd say that principle is an outdated concept.

 

[VegasRam]

Great thread. My question is, what exactly IS a "Football Guy"?

Does he have to have scouted and/or coached, and /or played, and/or drafted and/or made trades, or all of the above? And for how long?
And do the records of the teams he worked for enter into it? Is it "Well, I know one when I see one"?

Les Snead's been in the NFL for 20 years - does that qualify? If not, why not?
I will say imo Demoff is a very valuable part of the organization, but is NOT a "football guy".

Bill Polian became general manager of the Bills in 1986 at age 44, and was fired in 1992 after they lost their 3rd straight superbowl.
That was HIS fault? alm: Anyway, lots of subjectivity in this selection. Personally, I don't like the GM/Coach approach, and think Holmgren is exhibit A of why it doesn't work.

Bottom line, it's always has been, and still is, about the QB.

 

[Merlin]

There was no salary cap or free agency back then.

In a parity driven league where 75% of teams are still in the playoff hunt into December, I'd say that principle is an outdated concept.

It's not an outdated concept at all. It's just going to be more turnover on who those 8 are; there was turnover in those 8 back in the day too.

The recent whiners with Harbaugh are yet another great example of how you gotta have the org structured for success. They got it right with his hiring, only to allow him to walk out the door due to the GM's ego. That demonstrates you have the wrong GM running the org. If the guy needs the headlines and the media giving him all the credit, he's not my guy.

If the Whiners' ownership had canned Baalke and kept Harbaugh they'd probably be on top of this crappy division and they'd be one of those 8 still, instead of an organization that slipped back to the gutter.

 

[…..]

There was no salary cap or free agency back then.

In a parity driven league where 75% of teams are still in the playoff hunt into December, I'd say that principle is an outdated concept.

I was not referring to the principles of that time. I latched onto the character trait. A mentality...confidence.....look like a winner...act like a winner...blah blah blah and all that feel good stuff.

Some people enter a room and are considered winners. Others are not.

Hope we find a winner.

 

[RamFan503]

I will say imo Demoff is a very valuable part of the organization, but is NOT a "football guy".

He's been working in football for 15 years now. Not sure he's less of a football guy than many in the league. He didn't play collegiate or pro football but he grew up surrounded by and immersed in it. He's just a football guy from a different angle. IMO - it doesn't mean he can't help pick good Xs and Os guys to do the non-business activities. Guess we'll see.

But yeah - to your point. Who says what makes a guy a "football guy"?

 

[SAK11]

I thought he started out with a good point on Harbaugh being in a great situation right now that might be tough for him to walk away from where he has complete control, makes plenty of money, coaches his alma mater, etc. Coaches like him, Saban and Meyer know that they'll always been in charge of their programs and will compete year after year. My counter to that would be that a guy like Harbaugh might look at the NFL as the top of the hill for coaching. As much as he may love it at Michigan, who's to say he's not keeping a close eye on the NFL to pick the right time to jump back in, and compete against the best of the best. It might not be with LA, but I have a feeling he'll be back. Worse case for him, he fails but surely ends up on his feet with a great college coaching job once again.

He then made some pretty awful points.

To say Demoff has never been involved in football is just silly. And then to say it's Demoff vs. Belichick is ridiculous. He's not the coach, he's not in charge of every decision the Rams make, far from it. In fact, the Rams gave Fisher a ton of control in this organization, and gave him plenty of time to make it work, and look where that got us.
Lombardi makes it seem as though it was completely the fault of organizations like Miami, Denver and Tampa when coaches failed there. The reality is all of those coaches made mistakes, and they all share blame in their failures [I recall McDaniels having plenty of power in Denver and making some bad decisions].

The reality is, there isn't only one way to run a successful organization. Plenty of teams have success with input from different people.

 

[LACHAMP46]

To say Demoff has never been involved in football is just silly. And then to say it's Demoff vs. Belichick is ridiculous.

Whoa, whoa bruh....slow down....It is Demoff vs Belichick if Kevin is picking this staff, and Bill is picking his...same with the guy for the Raiders...dude from GB...He's picking...

 

[RamFan503]

Whoa, whoa bruh....slow down....It is Demoff vs Belichick if Kevin is picking this staff, and Bill is picking his...same with the guy for the Raiders...dude from GB...He's picking...

So you're saying they fill the same role with their perspective teams? I don't think I follow you.

 

[LACHAMP46]

So you're saying they fill the same role with their perspective teams?

If, for example, Kevin is hiring the GM, and Bill is hiring the GM, I'd say yeah, that's the same role...which then trickles down to every player said GM picks.

 

[Zero]

Interesting takes from Lombardi. I fully agree with him that the consistently good/great teams are what they are because they built a program from the top down. "People are selected instead of elected."
I like that.

Why can't Snead be that guy instead of Demoff.
Let Demoff count beans and stay out of the program building all together.

 

[tempests]

It's not an outdated concept at all. It's just going to be more turnover on who those 8 are; there was turnover in those 8 back in the day too.

It's more like with the introduction of free agency and the salary cap the lines between the "haves" and the "have nots" became increasingly blurred-which was the goal, after all.

This is Mike Lombardi taking something he heard from 1984 and preaching in 2016. Maybe it made sense back then, like George Young's "planet theory" approach to drafting, but the league's competitive balance has shifted in the last 30 years.

 

[SAK11]

Whoa, whoa bruh....slow down....It is Demoff vs Belichick if Kevin is picking this staff, and Bill is picking his...same with the guy for the Raiders...dude from GB...He's picking...

But Demoff isn't alone in this fight. He doesn't hire everyone that comes into the organization, and doesn't hand pick every player. Fisher had a lot of that power. Fisher failed. Now obviously it's imperative that the Rams make the right choice for their next coach, and typically the coach chooses who's on his staff, so hopefully the right choices are made there too. But again, it's not simple Demoff vs. Belichick. They do not serve in the exact same role with their teams.

Lombardi said "This is what they don't understand, you can't do it without program." Of course the Rams, like every team, want to build a strong program. They thought they had the right guy to lead the way with Fisher, and along with him came Greg Williams, and Les Snead was heavily involved too, among others. That program didn't work. So Demoff said "everyone has to do a better job." That's a true statement. Not sure why Lombardi has a problem with it. Not sure how that confirmed his thought that the Rams are still doing things wrong, or that they don't want to be a part of 'the 8'.

The way in which Lombardi spoke came across as very confident, sounding like he knew what he spoke about. But the overall message wasn't one that made sense all the way through. Just seemed like he doesn't like Demoff, really.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

The story with Bill Walsh does demonstrate the truth of things. In any given year you have that percentage of teams who are the ones you're worried about. Now things have changed a bit in the modern salary cap era, but then again teams that don't have the organization structured with good people at the top are going to fail even if they do get things right here and there.

Good example is our Rams from 1999. During that season Walsh was quoted as saying they needed to get that guy out of the division, meaning Martz. Not too long after that, Shaw and Ziggy were falling all over themselves to anoint Martz as the "Coach in Waiting" because they knew Mad Mike would be the belle of the offseason ball. At that point there was no thought to the fact that before Vermiel came aboard they had no clue on personnel, and in hindsight the quick erosion of the basic roster over the next few years after DV bailed out slid the Rams right back to the bottom.

Where Lombardi is wrong is that it has to start with bringing in the right guy. The Niners, who he uses in his example, were not one of those 8 before Walsh came onboard. They were one of the 8 because of him. Walsh filled the organization with good people, and made the good people that were there better. The Patriots made their first move to legitimize themselves as an organization with the hiring of Bill Parcells, and cemented it by taking a flyer on a top DC who had failed in Cleveland. You gotta start somewhere.

So back to the Rams the key is getting the right guy in here plain and simple. But, again, I think Stan is willing to do that and at this point I just pray they finally get it right.

That is the key for every organization but the right guy could be a GM instead of a coach. Carroll and Jack Del Rio aren't Walsh caliber minds. And before Russell Wilson Carroll was Jeff Fisher 2.0, finishing around .500 every year. It is hard to find the right guys, but having a football guy pick him is not necessary. Football guys get it wrong every year. Lombardi rode on the backs of giants his whole career. He constantly quotes Walsh and Belichick but all of those lessons from those coaches weren't enough for him to have success as a GM.

 

[WvuIN02]

Lombardi is 100% on point.

 

[LACHAMP46]

But Demoff isn't alone in this fight. He doesn't hire everyone that comes into the organization,

No, he doesn't...But he'll hire that guy that WILL basically hire everyone else...See the connection now?

Not sure why Lombardi has a problem with it. Not sure how that confirmed his thought that the Rams are still doing things wrong, or that they don't want to be a part of 'the 8'.

Because for 11 years, this team has been loosing....only getting close Bradford's first year....and had we been decent, we'd have easily been a playoff team....Remember Seattle won it with a 7-9 record. IDK how long KD has been on board, 8 years? He's part of the problem.

And before Russell Wilson Carroll was Jeff Fisher 2.0, finishing around .500 every year.

Yes, so was Belichick...Shoulda saw Landry's record b4 Staubach. Chuck Knoll b4 Bradshaw...