Michael Brockers lets it go so he doesn't get lost on Rams' D-line

[BonifayRam]

Brockers is the massive solid base that all the other moving DL parts attached themselves too.The best thing that Snead & Fisher could so to this DL & Brockers is draft a low cap cost young NOSE TACKLE to back up Brockers. This will assist him over time in this NT post. However it's going to be real hard due to the below.

This DL will undergo some major changes after this season. With 3 major elements of this 2015 DL entering UFA'cy & they cost the Rams over 12 million in the 2015 cap. That's some heavy cash for 3 reserves. It's a real possibility that all 3 will find much bigger pay days elsewhere than with the Rams.

 

[GabesHorn]

Yes, that was me. Partially, as in the bolded part. However, we already extended Quinn (thru 2019) and Long (thru 2016) and cut Langford in a cost cutting move http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...release-dt-kendall-langford-cost-cutting-move . Of course we've added Fairley to the mix.
2016 FAs:
Barron
McLeod
Sims
Hayes
Quick
J.J.
Trumaine
Zuerline
barnes
Cunningham
Bates
Reynolds
Cody Davis
Keenum

So in addition to needing to resign Quinn in 2016, lots of decisions have to be made about all those players. I can easily see Brockers being a CAP casualty. Especially if Fairley shows some of what he showed with Detroit. Even if Fairley is a no go I think Brockers shouldn't buy a new house any time soon.

Please stop Breaking My Heart Brockers is a perfect extension to continue working with AD & Quinn I still Love what Hayes is doing with EVERY Rep he is getting. One of JJ and TJ will be resigned. The other tough calls between ( Greg Z, Cunningham) we can low ball Barnes if he has a decent year knowing staying at home we'll be fair to him. We have tons of safeties and If TJ has a great year we will be heartbroken to see him go.

Fairley was a mistake!!! (So Far) and we should have used that money to extend one of our CB's . We have Pasat and Longacre to bring forward and lots of OL to work with. Brockers after being properly seasoned is GOING NOWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is MOB SQUAD for a LOT LONGER.

The last time RAMS went 2-0 WE went to SUPERBOWL 2001. Our great drafting will continue and now we don't need a qb to draft and train. Unless Mannion does'nt progress. I wish we would have used that third round pick on many others than Mannion right now after seeing Foles and having him extended. Getting E.J. Gaines back healthy will be big. Keeping Joyner healthy will be big.Roberson is looking really good. FA'cy will be signing our own next season . GO RAMS!!! NO INJURIES!!!

 

[jap]

Just as Merlin Olsen was the key to the Fearsome Foursome, so is The Incredible Brock the key to the MOB Squad. he is the super stud DT/NT who consistently occupies 2/3 blockers every play, freeing up most of his line mates for easy one-on-one assignments (I say most of his line mates because The Mighty One is attracting double teaming these days). He is also good enough to fight through those blockers to get his own sacks/scraps.

Like Bonifay says, the Brock really needs an adequate backup NT to give him relief.

 

[Alan]

I hear all you guys when you laud Brockers contributions and while it sounds good and might feel right, is it right?

I have some questions that none of you are addressing or seem to be taking into consideration. Along with some questions about some of of the things you say he does. Can you supply a good answer for all or even some of these questions?

So here's the snap count for Brockers: Brockers 44/83. That's just a little more than half. Long and Quinn got 54 and Donald got 60 snaps. Why so few snaps for Brockers? Can there be any other reason for that except that Williams thought another player would work out better? Isn't Brockers basically just a situational starter? We're paying $5M for Fairley so what would we need to pay Brockers? $8-10M? For a part time player who doesn't get sacks and is replaced on passing downs?

Was Brockers on the field when we got those 6 sacks? Some of them? All of them? Don't we sub Brockers out on obvious passing downs? If we do, then how does he help Quinn, Long and Donald get sacks? If that contention were true then wouldn't leaving him in help us in our quest to sack the QB? Isn't that contention ridiculous when looking at the substitution facts?

When the Hags got decent yards on a rushing play who was on the field? Who was on the field when we did well against the run?

Brockers got credit for zero sacks, zero pressures, zero QB hits and zero TFLs (probably should have gotten credit for half a TFL with Donald on the Lynch stuff). Why does both NFL.com, SI.com and ESPN have Brockers with only 7 tackles (only one of them unassisted)? Because the Rams looked at the coaches tape and came up with 13? Almost double the official count. Who's right?

I hear talk about how Brockers eats up double teams which allows the others to be freed up to make plays. Really? Then why do I also hear how Donald is constantly getting double teamed? Can both anecdotal comments be true? It's possible that Donald only gets double teamed when Brockers is on the bench but does that make any sense to you? If you were the OC for the Hags, who would you double team most of of the time, if not almost all the time? Donald or Brockers? Why would you even double team Brockers at all unless Donald is on the bench? There's no doubt in my mind that my double teams would be on Donald unless we were running away from him. If "Brockers is the massive solid base that all the other moving DL parts attached themselves too" and he only plays half the snaps who do they attach themselves too when he's on the bench @BonifayRam ?

Wasn't Merlin a full time player and didn't he play every down @jap ?

OK @GabesHorn , even though it's probably too late, I'll stop breaking your heart now.

 

[Mackeyser]

Let's Remember that Marmaduke got here at just 21 and was potentially still growing. If you just watch his play, he's simply a different player this year.

I'm not going to hold snap counts against anyone because those are Gregg Williams' decisions and he likes to rotate to keep everyone fresh. DTs tend to get gassed and when they do, the interior of a D can be exploited for big gains.

If, at the end of the year it turns out that Fairley or Trinca or some other option is better for the Rams then I'll be 100% for that option. However, after the preseason and the first game, Michael is showing himself to be a growing and indispensable part of this dominating DL.

Rather than be incredulous at the absurdity of the notion that teams would double Brockers over Donald...imagine if in fact that's the truth. It's pretty easy to see on game film so unless teams can't read jersey numbers, it's happening.

Perhaps it means Brockers gets more respect around the league than he's given credit by fans. And that's fine...as long as our FO understands his importance.

 

[GabesHorn]

I hear all you guys when you laud Brockers contributions and while it sounds good and might feel right, is it right?

I have some questions that none of you are addressing or seem to be taking into consideration. Along with some questions about some of of the things you say he does. Can you supply a good answer for all or even some of these questions?

So here's the snap count for Brockers: Brockers 44/83. That's just a little more than half. Long and Quinn got 54 and Donald got 60 snaps. Why so few snaps for Brockers? Can there be any other reason for that except that Williams thought another player would work out better? Isn't Brockers basically just a situational starter? We're paying $5M for Fairley so what would we need to pay Brockers? $8-10M? For a part time player who doesn't get sacks and is replaced on passing downs?

Was Brockers on the field when we got those 6 sacks? Some of them? All of them? Don't we sub Brockers out on obvious passing downs? If we do, then how does he help Quinn, Long and Donald get sacks? If that contention were true then wouldn't leaving him in help us in our quest to sack the QB? Isn't that contention ridiculous when looking at the substitution facts?

When the Hags got decent yards on a rushing play who was on the field? Who was on the field when we did well against the run?

Brockers got credit for zero sacks, zero pressures, zero QB hits and zero TFLs (probably should have gotten credit for half a TFL with Donald on the Lynch stuff). Why does both NFL.com, SI.com and ESPN have Brockers with only 7 tackles (only one of them unassisted)? Because the Rams looked at the coaches tape and came up with 13? Almost double the official count. Who's right?

I hear talk about how Brockers eats up double teams which allows the others to be freed up to make plays. Really? Then why do I also hear how Donald is constantly getting double teamed? Can both anecdotal comments be true? It's possible that Donald only gets double teamed when Brockers is on the bench but does that make any sense to you? If you were the OC for the Hags, who would you double team most of of the time, if not almost all the time? Donald or Brockers? Why would you even double team Brockers at all unless Donald is on the bench? There's no doubt in my mind that my double teams would be on Donald unless we were running away from him. If "Brockers is the massive solid base that all the other moving DL parts attached themselves too" and he only plays half the snaps who do they attach themselves too when he's on the bench @BonifayRam ?

Wasn't Merlin a full time player and didn't he play every down @jap ?

OK @GabesHorn , even though it's probably too late, I'll stop breaking your heart now.

I don't mind at all that we disagree totally on the effectiveness of Michael Brockers. As I also believe also he is the base player this defense rides on. He takes a ton of hits while playing with a bum shoulder I know you should be aware of as an avid fan that you are and yet you never mentioned that fact. I'd say the staff has him on a snap count due to just that reason. He's not out of shape.'

I know Fairley played 22 snaps if that is correct and I don't remember seeing him but once and he is the only "D" player even near (1) tackle which I'm sure was'nt a solo. Have no idea where he is at with his clavicle injury that sat him MOST of PS. Hope we get something back for the 5 million we spent. You are aware on the last play of the game it was Brockers who already had Lynch in a full body vise grip before Aaron Donald finished off the play and tackle for effect. That play is everywhere to be viewed up close.

We only have one player on our team that can play the NT type runstopping scheme Brockers gives to us. I so wish we had spent our FA money on another. Until we know Brockers is'nt limited due to his shoulder I would'nt get down on the guy. His play and what the guys on the fearsome Foursome can't be compared. The weights of players today compared with those of yesteryear. Nothin but love for the Foursome. Glad I got to see them play as many did'nt.

We have only played 1 game and I assure you the run stopping role will be more important with the skins early and with the steelers getting a fresh Leveon Bell back from suspension tp play us on our turf we will see a TON of Brockers for that game. Just maybe the coaches are looking at everything with the injury and having Brock up for two teams that like to play more running game. Although the Steelers have roughly the best reciever in the league and their backups down to their rookie from Auburn who loves to go deep every play will be a MAJOR challenge. Are you aware of who was in on Lynch's one long carry of the game?

I fully believe a healthy Michael Brockers from LSU who is playing the VERY BEST he has EVER played in his career (will be extended) and yes it took a while as it does with MOST high drafted DT's in the NFL as the RAMS are infamous for drafting them and then letting them go and letting them have extended careers on other teams and even win Lombardi's. The Ryan Pickett ,Damione Lewis draft is almost too painfull to remember and who we could have taken. So glad we have Snead and his staff and Demoff doing such a great job at what he does so well. So far they have missed on Fairley but with the Auburn love from our FO I just have to go with it. At Auburn he WAS a beast. Today he is less then Meh. I know we don't know the whole story. Its a long season and we may see playoffs this season.

 

[BonifayRam]

If "Brockers is the massive solid base that all the other moving DL parts attached themselves too" and he only plays half the snaps who do they attach themselves too when he's on the bench @BonifayRam ?

The Brockers effect is so powerful that even when Brockers is on the sideline...the damage continues well after the events, where the OL is still hurting & trainers room bodycart is overheated from all the OL'ers being taken to the locker room for medical attention.

 

[Alan]

GabesHorn with episode 2 of the Brockers miniseries:
With the stuff below.

I don't mind at all that we disagree totally on the effectiveness of Michael Brockers. As I also believe also he is the base player this defense rides on. He takes a ton of hits while playing with a bum shoulder I know you should be aware of as an avid fan that you are and yet you never mentioned that fact. I'd say the staff has him on a snap count due to just that reason. He's not out of shape.'

http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-ra...rockers-feeling-better-but-remaining-cautious
If he's well enough to play I have to judge him like he has no injury. Otherwise, how could anybody ever judge any player? As he said himself, "Life as a nose tackle. Staying in the training room, these guys did a good job of getting me back on the field, so that's all I can do is stay on top of it, don't let it linger and keep grinding. I think that's one of the parts of the NFL and football in general is injuries." Plus, as far as I know he's completely recovered from that preseason injury. Maybe he's still recovering but I can't find anything that can confirm that. If you can then let me know where so I can read about it.

I know Fairley played 22 snaps if that is correct and I don't remember seeing him but once and he is the only "D" player even near (1) tackle which I'm sure was'nt a solo. Have no idea where he is at with his clavicle injury that sat him MOST of PS. Hope we get something back for the 5 million we spent. You are aware on the last play of the game it was Brockers who already had Lynch in a full body vise grip before Aaron Donald finished off the play and tackle for effect. That play is everywhere to be viewed up close.

You're forgetting about Westbrooks who is now a DT. Though as I mentioned in a different thread, he can probably still sub at DE and is listed as a backup there on the depth chart.

We only have one player on our team that can play the NT type runstopping scheme Brockers gives to us. I so wish we had spent our FA money on another. Until we know Brockers is'nt limited due to his shoulder I would'nt get down on the guy. His play and what the guys on the fearsome Foursome can't be compared. The weights of players today compared with those of yesteryear. Nothin but love for the Foursome. Glad I got to see them play as many did'nt.

I would contend that the fact that he's our only bonafide NT is irrelevant when it comes to how well he's plays. Despite what I said earlier in this post, if he is still injured and plays better after he heals (if he ever does heal), then I'd have to re-examine my stance on him again. Hasn't happened yet. I think you might be under the misapprehension that I don't think Brockers is a decent player because I do.

We have only played 1 game and I assure you the run stopping role will be more important with the skins early and with the steelers getting a fresh Leveon Bell back from suspension tp play us on our turf we will see a TON of Brockers for that game. Just maybe the coaches are looking at everything with the injury and having Brock up for two teams that like to play more running game. Although the Steelers have roughly the best reciever in the league and their backups down to their rookie from Auburn who loves to go deep every play will be a MAJOR challenge. Are you aware of who was in on Lynch's one long carry of the game?

I'm looking forward to seeing an improvement in the play of many of our Rams as it was only the first game of the season like you said. That would include Brockers. Then again, I'm not basing my opinion of him on just the one game, I'm basing it on his entire history. Which is pretty good but I think many of his supporters are ignoring the fact that playing alongside Long, Donald and Quinn would make anyone look better. One need only look at Fairley's stats to see what you get when you play next to a premium player like Suh.

I fully believe a healthy Michael Brockers from LSU who is playing the VERY BEST he has EVER played in his career (will be extended) and yes it took a while as it does with MOST high drafted DT's in the NFL as the RAMS are infamous for drafting them and then letting them go and letting them have extended careers on other teams and even win Lombardi's. The Ryan Pickett ,Damione Lewis draft is almost too painfull to remember and who we could have taken. So glad we have Snead and his staff and Demoff doing such a great job at what he does so well. So far they have missed on Fairley but with the Auburn love from our FO I just have to go with it. At Auburn he WAS a beast. Today he is less then Meh. I know we don't know the whole story. Its a long season and we may see playoffs this season.

You could very well be right about Brockers taking it to another level (eventually) this year but that would just make it harder to keep him wouldn't it? If he does take it to another level I'll be happy to change my mind about him. As in how good he is and not whether we'll extend him or not. If I'm not mistaken, aren't premium NTs as rare (thus expensive) as a virgin in a harem? Aren't they best utilized in a 3-4 scheme and don't we normally run a 4-3?

I'm not ready to give up on Fairley. As someone mentioned earlier (-X-?), he came to TC underweight and we'll see how he looks when he regains his weight/strength. But like part of my reasoning concerning Brockers, maybe Suh just made him look much better than he is.

 

[Alan]

BonifayRam with the only correct answer possible:
The Brockers effect is so powerful that even when Brockers is on the sideline...the damage continues well after the events, where the OL is still hurting & trainers room bodycart is overheated from all the OL'ers being taken to the locker room for medical attention.

 

[jjab360]

Brockers is a special player in his own right, imo. There's very few players built like him in the league (6-6, 325 lbs, with barely an ounce of fat).

He's probably only an average pass rusher, but he's basically an immovable object in the run game and his insane length and 35" arms allow him to disengage and cover pretty much the entire interior allowing Donald to penetrate at will and still be kosher even if he overruns the play. It's really the perfect combination, and how many of you knew that despite coming into the league 2 years earlier, Brockers and Donald are actually the same age (24) right now?

 

[Alan]

Mackeyser with this tidbit:
Rather than be incredulous at the absurdity of the notion that teams would double Brockers over Donald...imagine if in fact that's the truth. It's pretty easy to see on game film so unless teams can't read jersey numbers, it's happening.

Interesting. I haven't heard a single team say they were double teaming him. I've read pundits say it but not teams. But of course I did say this "double teams would be on Donald unless we were running away from him." so of course I realize that he, along with Long and Quinn will occasionally be double teamed but that's not my point is it?

 

[Alan]

jjab360 adding this:
but he's basically an immovable object in the run game and his insane length and 35" arms allow him to disengage and cover pretty much the entire interior allowing Donald to penetrate at will and still be kosher even if he overruns the play.

Now that's a good point and has nothing to do with double teams. But my question remains, is that enough to pay a situational player when a 3-4 team will play him on all 3 downs (except for an occasional rest) and pay him very well? I doubt we can or will match what he'll be offered.

That brings up an additional point that has nothing to do with Brockers per se. If he's such an immovable object, why, in your opinion, hasn't that translated to the Rams being able to consistently stop the run? Crappy LB or S play? Poor play by the recently departed Langford or Long/Quinn?

 

[jjab360]

Now that's a good point and has nothing to do with double teams. But my question remains, is that enough to pay a situational player when a 3-4 team will play him on all 3 downs (except for an occasional rest) and pay him very well? I doubt we can or will match what he'll be offered.

That brings up an additional point that has nothing to do with Brockers per se. If he's such an immovable object, why, in your opinion, hasn't that translated to the Rams being able to consistently stop the run? Crappy LB or S play? Poor play by the recently departed Langford or Long/Quinn?

Because one player who plays 55-60% of snaps doesn't make an entire run defense? Seems a little self explanatory, but I can only comment on what I've seen from Brockers' individual play.

As far as a tangible statistic difference though, check out our YPC allowed average after Brockers from 2012-2014 (19th, 2nd, 15th) compared to our YPC average allowed before from 2008-2011 (28th, 20th, 22nd, 27th). I think we saw him play his best in 2013 and the latter half of 2014 and I think it showed with how our run D stood up statistically.

As far as Brockers regarding FA, I'm not worried about it. He's one of our core pieces, and Snisher has been more consistent than any other regime in recent memory as far as retaining core members of our team.

 

[Alan]

jjab360 forgetting about the other pieces:
As far as a tangible statistic difference though, check out our YPC allowed average after Brockers from 2012-2014 (19th, 2nd, 15th) compared to our YPC average allowed before from 2008-2011 (28th, 20th, 22nd, 27th). I think we saw him play his best in 2013 and the latter half of 2014 and I think it showed with how our run D stood up statistically.

That was also before we had any players anywhere except for CL and JL so...extremely low bar.

 

[jjab360]

That was also before we had any players anywhere except for CL and JL so...extremely low bar.

Just baiting you into admitting your initial premise of contributing a team's production and/or lack of production to one DT is flawed in nature.

 

[rdlkgliders]

Man it is nice when your d line gobbles up plays and makes all those tackles. I remember quite a few seasons with db's being amongst the top tacklers on the team. I think we may be on our way with this D. JL may have to go up to the mob squad in between plays and say hey guys let one through, for gods sake I am chasing the all time Ram tackle tecord.

 

[Alan]

jjab360 getting a nibble:
Just baiting you into admitting your initial premise of contributing a team's production and/or lack of production to one DT is flawed in nature.

OK then, I'll just leave you with these gems:
Playing 55-60% of the snaps when you're taken out on obvious pass plays means you're pretty much in there for almost all the run plays doesn't it? Not as self explanatory as you thought when you give it some more thought is it?

By the time we drafted Brockers we had a complete D-line of Quinn, Langford, Hayes, Sims and Long to go along with JL so I wouldn't call that an attempt on my part to attribute it to one DT yes? Also, isn't that why I asked you what you thought our problem was if it wasn't Brockers.

 

[GabesHorn]

When the Rams extend M. Brockers it won't be for how he played in the years leading up to this year. It will be for how he is playing at this moment in time with our team. The past 3 years may work their way into negotiations of final contract but really have no bearing going forward.

No comment to the fact Brockers was the first to lock Lynch up on the 4th and 1 play that ended the game. I won't be baited to comment on either CL or JL ever in any article period. AS was written above Brockers was playing for us at a MUCH younger age than Aaron Donald is now playing as they are now the same age. Just as we are putting up with a learning curve with a very young drafted G. Rob.

I've never even given a thought to Brockers costing our team too much to extend him. I'll skip the virgin in a harem idea Alan floated. I'm going now to rewatch the shegal game and know who was in the game when Lynch had his one long gainer the whole game. So glad we endured the seasoning years and love the great partnership of having Brockers playing next to Donald effects our defensive lines push and effectiveness. They will be moving all around this week as in last. AD will even be playing some DE as we already know.If Brockers had one assist all game I would'nt be giving him the pass many are giving Fairley in his 22 plays. Brockers posted good stats. NO INJURIES!!!

 

[Alan]

GabesHorn with more thoughts:
When the Rams extend M. Brockers it won't be for how he played in the years leading up to this year. It will be for how he is playing at this moment in time with our team. The past 3 years may work their way into negotiations of final contract but really have no bearing going forward.

I'll skip the virgin in a harem idea Alan floated.

I'm going now to rewatch the shegal game and know who was in the game when Lynch had his one long gainer the whole game.

So glad we endured the seasoning years and love the great partnership of having Brockers playing next to Donald effects our defensive lines push and effectiveness.

I agree with you that no one will care about what he did in the past if he shines this year.

Thanks for re-watching that game because I'm interested in who was on the field too. D-line and LBs/Ss if you notice. There had to be multiple failures.

Is that a dig on virgins or harems?

Yes they are a great team.