Manziel won't throw at Combine

[PhxRam]

Bradford was recovering from an injury, and on a very tight schedule, but if he was healthy, I would have said the same thing. But like I mentioned, the maturity of Manziel worries me the most. I wouldn't have him on my board, or I would drop him way down.

Subtract the maturity issue for a second.. where do you then have him ranked?

 

[OnceARam]

You guys are so wrong about Johnny Football. Seriously. It seems like you all use TMZ for your pre-draft research when you say he isn't a leader or is a character concern. (I don't say that to be disrespectful of you all. It just upsets me to see his commitment to football being questioned.)

He has the "IT factor" that you cannot teach. Plus, he is an incredibly good teammate with a solid work ethic AND communication/motivation skills (as we saw in the bowl game).

The off the field stuff was nothing of any consequence. It's hyped up by the MEDIA because that's what they do. Everyone wants a piece of this kid. And that's all there is to it.

Have you guys seen the video of him working out with QB Guru, George Whitfield, in San Diego? Seriously, it will give you a completely different picture of him.

Here's a link to a video. You don't have to watch the whole video. But there a few seconds where Whitfield talks about him that are worth your time;

(2:39 - 3:27) Whitfield talks about Johnny's development from his redshirt year to his sophomore year; "He still works like a third stringer..."

(5:49 - 6:30) Whitfield, "I like watching his mind work... That's a guy who WANTS THE OWNERSHIP..."

(8:08 - 9:05) They had a 45 minute talk before the Alabama game where they discuss Johnny being a "Dragon slayer"

(10:00 - 10:55) Whitfield talk about his NFL chances, "I don't know how you could have watched and tracked him, growing up, to this point, and then turn around and doubt the next step."

(14:34 - 15:11 ) Johnny Football addresses his off field problems (honestly and with humility), his relationship with Whitfield and (essentially) how he's taken the team from "the bottom, now we're here".



This is George Fucking Whitfield we're talking about. You can tell in this video that these two have a real relationship and really care about each other.

It's clear as day to me that at the root of Johnny's character is a guy who is fucking winner. A guy who will carry a team on his back.

'Nuff said by me on this topic. You can lead a horse to water...

 

[PhxRam]

You guys are so wrong about Johnny Football. Seriously. It seems like you all use TMZ for your pre-draft research when you say he isn't a leader or is a character concern. (I don't say that to be disrespectful of you all. It just upsets me to see his commitment to football being questioned.)

He has the "IT factor" that you cannot teach. Plus, he is an incredibly good teammate with a solid work ethic AND communication/motivation skills (as we saw in the bowl game).

The off the field stuff was nothing of any consequence. It's hyped up by the MEDIA because that's what they do. Everyone wants a piece of this kid. And that's all there is to it.

Have you guys seen the video of him working out with QB Guru, George Whitfield, in San Diego? Seriously, it will give you a completely different picture of him.

Here's a link to a video. You don't have to watch the whole video. But there a few seconds where Whitfield talks about him that are worth your time;

(2:39 - 3:27) Whitfield talks about Johnny's development from his redshirt year to his sophomore year; "He still works like a third stringer..."

(5:49 - 6:30) Whitfield, "I like watching his mind work... That's a guy who WANTS THE OWNERSHIP..."

(8:08 - 9:05) They had a 45 minute talk before the Alabama game where they discuss Johnny being a "Dragon slayer"

(10:00 - 10:55) Whitfield talk about his NFL chances, "I don't know how you could have watched and tracked him, growing up, to this point, and then turn around and doubt the next step."

(14:34 - 15:11 ) Johnny Football addresses his off field problems (honestly and with humility), his relationship with Whitfield and (essentially) how he's taken the team from "the bottom, now we're here".



This is George freaking Whitfield we're talking about. You can tell in this video that these two have a real relationship and really care about each other.

It's clear as day to me that at the root of Johnny's character is a guy who is freaking winner. A guy who will carry a team on his back.

'Nuff said by me on this topic. You can lead a horse to water...

The QB guru Dilfer said the same things about Tebow.

Just saying..

 

[OnceARam]

Bradford was recovering from an injury, and on a very tight schedule, but if he was healthy, I would have said the same thing. But like I mentioned, the maturity of Manziel worries me the most. I wouldn't have him on my board, or I would drop him way down.

Dude. It was like a month between the combine and his pro day. A month after a very, very long recovery period. I almost feel like doing the research on just how many months as he was hurt mid-season. The point is this; Bradford could have thrown at the combine if he had wanted to throw at the combine. Also, Bradford, by that time, had put on like 50 pounds of muscle. So I think his arm was good enough to throw.

Disclaimer: This was not meant to be a knock on Bradford. Nor am I being passive aggressive. If I wanted to knock Bradford I would do so.

 

[OnceARam]

The QB guru Dilfer said the same things about Tebow.

Just saying..

LOL! Tebow can't throw. Johnny can. That's the first I heard that there is something wrong with Johnny's ability to throw the ball, which is what I think you are inferring.

 

[PhxRam]

Disclaimer: This was not meant to be a knock on Bradford. Nor am I being passive aggressive. If I wanted to knock Bradford I would do so.

You are cool bro.. Nothing against having high praise for a player.

 

[DR RAM]

Subtract the maturity issue for a second.. where do you then have him ranked?

I haven't ranked players yet, in fact, I rarely do. I pick out who I think will be special, and sometimes they are middle rounders.

I think Johnny Football

You guys are so wrong about Johnny Football. Seriously. It seems like you all use TMZ for your pre-draft research when you say he isn't a leader or is a character concern. (I don't say that to be disrespectful of you all. It just upsets me to see his commitment to football being questioned.)

He has the "IT factor" that you cannot teach. Plus, he is an incredibly good teammate with a solid work ethic AND communication/motivation skills (as we saw in the bowl game).

The off the field stuff was nothing of any consequence. It's hyped up by the MEDIA because that's what they do. Everyone wants a piece of this kid. And that's all there is to it.

Have you guys seen the video of him working out with QB Guru, George Whitfield, in San Diego? Seriously, it will give you a completely different picture of him.

Here's a link to a video. You don't have to watch the whole video. But there a few seconds where Whitfield talks about him that are worth your time;

(2:39 - 3:27) Whitfield talks about Johnny's development from his redshirt year to his sophomore year; "He still works like a third stringer..."

(5:49 - 6:30) Whitfield, "I like watching his mind work... That's a guy who WANTS THE OWNERSHIP..."

(8:08 - 9:05) They had a 45 minute talk before the Alabama game where they discuss Johnny being a "Dragon slayer"

(10:00 - 10:55) Whitfield talk about his NFL chances, "I don't know how you could have watched and tracked him, growing up, to this point, and then turn around and doubt the next step."

(14:34 - 15:11 ) Johnny Football addresses his off field problems (honestly and with humility), his relationship with Whitfield and (essentially) how he's taken the team from "the bottom, now we're here".



This is George freaking Whitfield we're talking about. You can tell in this video that these two have a real relationship and really care about each other.

It's clear as day to me that at the root of Johnny's character is a guy who is freaking winner. A guy who will carry a team on his back.

'Nuff said by me on this topic. You can lead a horse to water...

is a heck of a play maker.

I watched his first game of the season, where he kept taunting defensive players, and his coach had to pull him out of the game. I don't think I saw that on TMZ, lol. He's a risk/reward player to me ALL things considered, and he's too much risk for me.

 

[PhxRam]

LOL! Tebow can't throw. Johnny can. That's the first I heard that there is something wrong with Johnny's ability to throw the ball, which is what I think you are inferring.

I am not saying that Johnny cant throw.

My point is this.

You are using the testimony from a guy who personally tutored Manziel. What else was he going to say? That under his tutelage Johnny regressed?

Dilfer said the same things. Tebow spent some time with Dilfer and suddenly Dilfer proclaimed that he had solved all of Tebows throwing issues.

 

[DR RAM]

Dude. It was like a month between the combine and his pro day. A month after a very, very long recovery period. I almost feel like doing the research on just how many months as he was hurt mid-season. The point is this; Bradford could have thrown at the combine if he had wanted to throw at the combine. Also, Bradford, by that time, had put on like 50 pounds of muscle. So I think his arm was good enough to throw.

Disclaimer: This was not meant to be a knock on Bradford. Nor am I being passive aggressive. If I wanted to knock Bradford I would do so.

Doctor's decision vs. agents decision. Quote, "Bradford's throwing motion is not quite at its best, but his surgeon, the highly regarded Dr. James Andrews, says Bradford's recovery is ahead of schedule."

It's obvious you love the dude, it's good to have passion. I like the type of leader, competitor that would throws at the combine if he's healthy. Now, if you are the clear #1 with nothing to prove, that's different, which would have been Bradfprd's situation. I would still ding him for not throwing. Is Mr. Football the clear #1? To me, it's not clear.

 

[OnceARam]

I am not saying that Johnny cant throw.

My point is this.

You are using the testimony from a guy who personally tutored Manziel. What else was he going to say? That under his tutelage Johnny regressed?

Dilfer said the same things. Tebow spent some time with Dilfer and suddenly Dilfer proclaimed that he had solved all of Tebows throwing issues.

I agree with your point, now that I understand it. The difference between the QB's though is that we did see Johnny get better from year 1 to year 2 - in terms of footwork and progression.

The problem with Tebow is that he would go back to his old (bad) habits once he was under fire.

Dilfer is a funny cat. I think he's an amazing guy. Not during his playing days. But now. He's tutoring guys. He speaks publicly about how LAZY he was as a player. And how he did not maximize his talent. He also has a tendency to be emotional on TV, where he'll fall in love with a guy - or not (as we saw with what he said about Bradford).

That said, I think Whitfield is a deeply authentic cat. Whitfield cannot rely on his glory days, like Dilfer. All Whitfield has is his name - which is his brand.

However, prior to working with Johnny he was already considered the BEST QB coach out there. The only other guy in his league was the guy that worked with Tom Brady, whose name I forget. But that guy died.

So it's only Whitfield.

My point is this; Whitfield doesn't have to talk poetically about Johnny. Nor is Whitfield contractually obligated to talk to Johnny for 45 minutes on the phone before big games.

Whitfield might be wrong. I'm not saying he's God or has a crystal ball. But I think he's genuinely honest. I know that doesn't seem to happen much in our culture.

 

[jjab360]

I think Manziel can be a stud, he truly is a genius at improvising. To some people it can look like a chicken running around with it's head cut off, but there is a method to it and it's like art in motion when done correctly.

That being said, and I know this isn't the PD forums so I don't technically have to add this footnote, but there's no way I take him over Bradford right now. Two completely different styles, but the pocket passer that sits back and dissects a defense is generally more reliable, especially with a QB as accurate as Bradford.

 

[OnceARam]

Doctor's decision vs. agents decision. Quote, "Bradford's throwing motion is not quite at its best, but his surgeon, the highly regarded Dr. James Andrews, says Bradford's recovery is ahead of schedule."

It's obvious you love the dude, it's good to have passion. I like the type of leader, competitor that would throws at the combine if he's healthy. Now, if you are the clear #1 with nothing to prove, that's different, which would have been Bradfprd's situation. I would still ding him for not throwing. Is Mr. Football the clear #1? To me, it's not clear.

We'll have to agree to disagree on whether Bradford could have thrown. I will concede that it's better to be safe than sorry though.

As for Johnny; I agree. It looks bad that he isn't throwing. If you're the clear cut #1 QB on the board then you should relish the opportunity. I'm still holding out hope that he comes to his senses and throws.

 

[OnceARam]

I think Manziel can be a stud, he truly is a genius at improvising. To some people it can look like a chicken running around with it's head cut off, but there is a method to it and it's like art in motion when done correctly.

That being said, and I know this isn't the PD forums so I don't technically have to add this footnote, but there's no way I take him over Bradford right now. Two completely different styles, but the pocket passer that sits back and dissects a defense is generally more reliable, especially with a QB as accurate as Bradford.

True. IF 1) Bradford comes back healthy (i.e., can move around in the pocket effectively). And IF 2) Bradford is playing well. A QBR of ~37 and a 6.3 Yards-Per-Attempt is not going to win us many games no matter who we have around him.

You always need disclaimers when mentioning Bradford. Some people confuse being a Rams fan first with being a Bradford hater. It's understandable given the strain of irrationality some of the haters demonstrate. As long as the comments are non-derogatory, fair and well balanced the moderators don't kick people off.

 

[Boffo97]

Bradford didn't throw at the combine...

Don't most guys who know they're already a top pick not throw at the Combine and save it for their Pro Day instead?

 

[OnceARam]

Don't most guys who know they're already a top pick not throw at the Combine and save it for their Pro Day instead?

Yes. We were just talking about whether he could have thrown. It was a hypothetical conversation by history revisionist that means absolutely nothing. So don't take any of it seriously.

 

[moklerman]

Dilfer is a funny cat. I think he's an amazing guy. Not during his playing days. But now. He's tutoring guys. He speaks publicly about how LAZY he was as a player. And how he did not maximize his talent. He also has a tendency to be emotional on TV, where he'll fall in love with a guy - or not (as we saw with what he said about Bradford).

Strike one...

True. IF 1) Bradford comes back healthy (i.e., can move around in the pocket effectively). And IF 2) Bradford is playing well. A QBR of ~37 and a 6.3 Yards-Per-Attempt is not going to win us many games no matter who we have around him.

...strike two...

 

[PhxRam]

Strike one...

...strike two...

They both looked outside to me

 

[OnceARam]

Strike one...

...strike two...

Sorry, he has a QBR of 40. I was 3 points off.... my bad. 40, for the record, is not a good QBR. I still don't fully understand it, but I know 40 is not good. Especially when Russell Wilson's is 65.8. That's 25 points different.

As for the Dilfer... it's subjective. I like the guy. He entertains me. And I like the word "dime".

Basically, every time I hear the word "dime" I think of a hot girl. So when Dilfer talks I'm probably off in dream land.


But thank you for your constructive criticism. You added a lot to the conversation.

 

[PhxRam]

Basically, every time I hear the word "dime" I think of a hot girl. .

I think of a bag

 

[OnceARam]

Please don't use qbr to make any kind of point in this forum.

.

Why? I thought it was an established measurement of whether a QB gives you a better or worse chance of winning per play? I don't understand why you wouldn't talk about it.