Let’s talk about the run defense (again)

[Jacobarch]

My answer is a question. If a team can commit 3 men to block AD, why can’t 10 others beat 8? Maybe there’s a scheme tweak available there but the players simply have to win their assignments and it isn’t happening often enough.

I think that's the biggest head scratcher.

 

[Zodi]

I’m curious. Seriously. Who are the two? Samson and Kiser?

Fowler and Kiser. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Farr Be It]

Fowler and Kiser. But that's just my opinion.

Ok. I’m not sure with “edge” and DE duties what is considered a true linebacker.

I think Hager is. So is Wilson. You don’t think Ekubon is a true LB? Maybe Obo?

 

[Steve808]

Just my 2 cents, but after watching the Rams defense, it seems that the successful running plays against us are often a "counter punch" so to speak. For example, AD pushes up the field, it leaves a gap that can be exploited by running past him. It's not always our guys getting pushed back that causes gaps, but our aggressiveness in trying to get to the QB. The lack of a 4th D lineman also creates a weaker edge (Maybe we should have kept Quinn) as you need a dominant linebacker like Von Miller to play a 3-4 and Longacre doesn't cut it.

I think there are times that the defense just needs to stack 5 guys on the line and force the O line to play one on one.

 

[Zodi]

Ok. I’m not sure with “edge” and DE duties what is considered a true linebacker.

I think Hager is. So is Wilson. You don’t think Ekubon is a true LB? Maybe Obo?

There's Kiser, Fowler and then a bunch of special teams guys. I don't think Hager, Wilson or Ekubon start on any other NFL squad. Obo hasn't seen the field, so there's no way of knowing. I'm not going to split hairs here. I just think the deficiency of size at the linebacker position is the cause of our run defense woes. Fowler and Kiser are true 3-4 LB's.

 

[Merlin]

My observations, our linebackers play too wide. I think that’s the main problem.

It has nothing to do with where they're lining up. And everything to do with the quality of our linebackers.

Watch the Bears' duo and be amazed. That's what it's supposed to look like. Trevathan has always been smooth in coverage with good range and awareness and excellent vs the run, where he gets to the hole aggressively and makes plays. And Roquan Smith is already playing at a very high level next to him, an impact rookie ILB who is going to be a perennial pro bowler. Both those dudes offer range, physicality, and awareness.

Our ILBs are so bad it's like a sick joke. They have been absolutely terrible for most of the year. Littleton actually has stretches where he is a solid starter, but way too many lapses to the point where I am doubtful he is a long term answer. Both him and Barron are instantly wired to blockers and removed from the play at first contact. You cannot have a good run defense in this scheme with players who cannot execute at ILB.

And the disappointing play of Suh just aggravates that situation even more. Our defense is not even close to being a high end playoff unit.

 

[TSFH Fan]

Los Angeles Rams Safeties Coach Ejiro Evero targeted by USC for defensive staff
https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2018/...defensive-staff-clay-helton-clancy-pendergast

Is this good news or bad news? I'm confused.

 

[BonifayRam]

Is this good news or bad news? I'm confused.

Not really sure but our safety unit has been far from being good. Both JJ III & Joyner played much better last season.

 

[TSFH Fan]

For example, AD pushes up the field, it leaves a gap that can be exploited by running past him. It's not always our guys getting pushed back that causes gaps, but our aggressiveness in trying to get to the QB.

Michaels/Collinsworth mentioned the Rams D were using the playing-the-run-on-the-way-to-the-quarterback technique. It's all well and good when it works, but it's not working for the Rams.

One of the O-linemen from the Rain City Bitch Pigeons also commented on the Rams doing it.

When Suh was with the Lions, they played that way with Wide-9 ends. My memories of Suh with the Lions include him repeatedly running past the RB and the Lions D getting gashed on the ground. . . things have changed?

 

[Legatron4]

I really don’t understand why Kiser doesn’t start. The guy is perfect for this scheme. There’s no way he would be worse then Barron. I think Littleton would be great if he was next to a guy like Kiser. It would allow him to roam and shoot the gap like he’s good at.

I also miss our 4-3 defense.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Just my 2 cents, but after watching the Rams defense, it seems that the successful running plays against us are often a "counter punch" so to speak. For example, AD pushes up the field, it leaves a gap that can be exploited by running past him. It's not always our guys getting pushed back that causes gaps, but our aggressiveness in trying to get to the QB. The lack of a 4th D lineman also creates a weaker edge (Maybe we should have kept Quinn) as you need a dominant linebacker like Von Miller to play a 3-4 and Longacre doesn't cut it.

I think there are times that the defense just needs to stack 5 guys on the line and force the O line to play one on one.

isn't that the lbers main job, fill the gaps. shouldn't they be able to see a gap being created and run straight to it as that's where the rb will undoubtedly be most of the time.

.

 

[RamWoodie]

I think it's just a matter of not having a "pass run first" attitude on defense.

The main problem against the Bears was that guy Cohen was so small he was able to hide back there. The Rams were able to adjust though.

With Talib back the D' doesn't have to compensate for the secondary.

Something else in my mind is the possibility of experimenting with Fowler at ILB or MLB. Wonder if that's in Wade's thinking.

 

[Memento]

I'd love to see Kiser playing. He's supposed to awesome against the run. Let's see him instead of Barron. I haven't lost faith in Littleton, but maybe putting Kiser next to him helps, like others have mentioned.

I also still have hope for Ebukam and Okoronkwo. They and Fowler need to be playing instead of Longacre, who looks damn near done.

I'd also like to see more of Franklin-Myers. He looks like a future stud. Maybe he's the one who replaces Brockers in the offseason.

Can we also go full nickel (say, two linemen, four linebackers, five defensive backs) as our base? NRC is arguably the best slot corner in the league, and we should be using him a lot more than we have.

 

[BonifayRam]

I think it's just a matter of not having a "pass run first" attitude on defense.

The main problem against the Bears was that guy Cohen was so small he was able to hide back there. The Rams were able to adjust though.

With Talib back the D' doesn't have to compensate for the secondary.

Something else in my mind is the possibility of experimenting with Fowler at ILB or MLB. Wonder if that's in Wade's thinking.

Dante Fowler Jr. is our only bona fide Edge Rusher I am sure after giving up our 3rd rd draft selection for him for the last quarter of this regular season that Wade would remove him from this crucial post.

Now I have been hoping that Wade would move our MLB'er Cory Littleton into the Weak Side Interior position where Barron now whiffs. Cory can still call & captain the defense from this post. The vacant MLB'er post can be filled with our 4 yr top reserve LB'er Bryce Hager or rookie Micah Kiser.....or both can work this position over if need be. The main objective is to get the "Barron the Whiffer" off the field on the sidelines, especially on run downs.

If Wade believes that moving Cory from his MLB'er from his post is not good due to this being his first season as a starter, first season playing MLB'er & his first season calling the defense......then use or try Hager/ Wilson/ Kiser or now Howard in the WSILB post. This would be a start in the right direction to fix the runs defense.

Next I would make some changes in the DL. I would run Brockers & Suh @ the NT post. Suh @ 32 might be getting tired & seems to fade as the game wears on. Keeping Suh fresh might be key.

I would then insert our best defensive rookie John Franklin-Myers & Ethan Westbrooks in the DE 5 tech post with JFM getting the start. IMO this puts Brockers back in next to Aaron Donald like it was before 2014/2015/2016 seasons. It would also put our two best run stoppers @ the nose post & rotate them both to keep them fresh. I would also try Suh @ AD post some too when he needs a rest.

I would also suggest that Wade begin to dress more than the usual 6 DL'ers on game day by making Rams drafted rookie Sebastian Joseph-Day acitve. SJD is a very large rookie run stuffer @ 6-4 315 pounds.

In college he was a 3 yr starter @ NT. Some of the positives I like:
Flashes two-gap sensibilities with ability to punch, spy, and disengage. Plus agility to scrape along the line to mirror the runner. Explosive lateral burst to snare running backs from the backside. Never stagnant with relentless motor. Good feel for blocking schemes and attacks his attacker. He has huge strong hands & makes impact tackles near the line of scrimmage.

 

[RamWoodie]

I have no clue why Hager isn't getting more minutes Bonifay. He was very good in preseason...and no he's not as fast as some but he reads well and is fast enough. Speed helps only if you know where you need to be.

 

[“Turbo set!”]

We have a "bend, don't break" defense. We look for turnovers. It is not a coincidence the number of turnovers we get. The Rams are going to give up yards We can not rely on the defense to win games.

 

[1maGoh]

I really don’t understand why Kiser doesn’t start. The guy is perfect for this scheme. There’s no way he would be worse then Barron. I think Littleton would be great if he was next to a guy like Kiser. It would allow him to roam and shoot the gap like he’s good at.

I also miss our 4-3 defense.

The number of times I've heard that it couldn't get worse if we replaced a guy, only to see him get replaced with someone worse is truly disappointing.

We said it with Martz. We said it with spags (to be fair, Fisher was better, but not the better we wanted). We said it with Linehan. We said it with Schottenheimer. We said it with Cignetti. We said it with Alex Barron. We said it with Jason Smith.

There's always someone who can play worse. At least one of them is usually on the team and not starting.

"Better the devil you now than the devil you don't." Is a saying for a reason.

That being said, I dearly hope they sit Barron and start Wilson or Kiser or Hager.

 

[tklongball]

Big, fast and great tacklers = thumpers by my definition.
That's what everyone wants in LBs.

Fair enough. LOL

When I think of Thumpers, I think of big Run Stuffing LBs.

 

[H.Birdman]

Adios, Wade.

 

[fearsomefour]

Fair enough. LOL

When I think of Thumpers, I think of big Run Stuffing LBs.

Yeah, I get it.
That model of a big 4/3 two down run stuffing MLB is out dated, you are right.
A guy like T Whitehead who signed with Oakland from Detroit is the kind of guy that can help. More of a two down backer but solid against the run and physical....but athletic enough to play three downs.
The team clearly needs to find a couple of players.