Kurt Warner on QBs and scheme

[Prime Time]

Successful coaches come up with the best scheme possible that fits the strengths of the players they have and minimizes their weaknesses.

Fisher/Snead have a vision of what type of team they want to have and have drafted accordingly. Most of the pieces on defense and special teams are in place but the offense is seriously lagging behind. When all three units come together at the same time, then you have the possibility of having a winning team.

The problem is that by the time the offense catches up, some or even many of our defensive players may have moved on. Nick Foles is caught in that transition period right now. He doesn't suck or stink as some have claimed. The man didn't forget how to play. It's just that he's stuck behind a shaky O-line with less than stellar wide receivers and tight ends. He has a first-year OC and is playing in a new scheme.

Kurt Warner, on the other hand, was the QB on a team that had all three areas clicking on all cylinders at the same time. We rave about the GSOT; Warner, Faulk, Holt, Bruce, Proehl, Martz and that great O-line, but one has to remember that our defense and special teams were pretty damn good as well.

My hope is that we will be able to keep our defensive stars and not lose them in free agency, and that Fisher/Snead will load up on offensive players in the next draft. If that doesn't happen then the window of opportunity for a winning Rams team may close and the whole process will have to start over again with a new head coach and GM.

 

[RamDino]

I saw the Rams try to throw to Gurley at least four times in various short pass or screen passes and every one of them got blown up. They are trying.

 

[Rmfnlt]

I don't think Shotty knows how to coach an up-tempo shot-gun style offense if it came up and b-slapped him in the face....There's a reason he went to UGA imo. All about the RB. What was his MO in NY? Running game. You have to have the offensive mind to run the kind of offense your QB is suited too....Shotty has no idea how to run a modern offense.

Then I guess my next question would be:
Who in the world came up with that idea? (and why?)

 

[LesBaker]

I'm not going to say that Foles has been playing well but I don't see this as his problem. He has thrown jump balls several times - in particular to Britt. I'm not sure why he is not throwing to some open receivers but he seems to take more risks than just about any of our other recent QBs not named Davis have taken.

In this game it could have been possible that he didn't trust his arm to be strong enough in that wind. I dunno. He missed several passes when he did throw them to what appeared to be an open man.

The offense didn't play well enough to win. I'm just not sure Foles waiting until the guy gets open is the problem.

I am guessing you have played catch in high swirling winds and it really changes the flight of the ball. And it's hard to adjust to.

Living in Cleveland for all those years we would have trouble on a rough day even playing catch while standing still! It can even be a challenge playing golf.

 

[bwdenverram]

The thing that is frustrating with Foles is we know what he's capable of. You don't go 27TD-2INT in the NFL without talent. But for whatever reason he's just been really off in games this year. Overthrowing receivers that are wide open. Some of them are deep throws that could of resulted in TD's. But he's also made some really sweet throws that keeps you feeling like, ok, it's there.
So he just needs to find a way to put it all together and be more consistent. I've been critical of him but I still think it's there. He just needs to step it up (as the entire offense does as well)

We all would hate to miss a playoff opportunity because our offense couldn't step up and be at least average. They don't need to be top 10 for us to succeed. They just can't be bottom 5 either.

 

[MrMotes]

Who is the ideal QB for a Frank Cignetti schemed offense?

 

[MrMotes]

In this game it could have been possible that he didn't trust his arm to be strong enough in that wind.

I think this is probably true.

That first play: double play action designed to be a bomb, Britt open, Foles doesn't throw it? No way he didn't see him. Britt was the whole point of that play. More likely, Foles just didn't think he could get the ball there in the wind.

And that, i guess, brings into question the play call...

 

[RamFan503]

It can even be a challenge playing golf.

Wind doesn't seem to do that to my game. Or at least not that you'd notice.

 

[Rmfnlt]

It can even be a challenge playing golf.

Played Wednesday in 35 MPH sustained winds, gusts to 40.

First time ever (and I've been playing for over 45 years) that the ball got blown off it's mark on the green.

At least a three club adjustment was needed going into the wind.

Not fun... shot a 91, though

 

[LesBaker]

Played Wednesday in 35 MPH sustained winds, gusts to 40.

First time ever (and I've been playing for over 45 years) that the ball got blown off it's mark on the green.

At least a three club adjustment was needed going into the wind.

Not fun... shot a 91, though

How did you do on the back 9? hehehehehe

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Who is the ideal QB for a Frank Cignetti schemed offense?

Who knows. It's his first year. I really don think a QB has to be an ideal fit in such a simple offense. He just needs to see guys open before they actually are. The ideal QB needs to throw the ball as the play is developing not after it is already there. Foles is a tick late on most of his passes. He doesn't seem to see receivers until they are all the way open. It allows defenders to close and get hands on passes. This offense is nearly a high school offense. It is over simplified. That may be part of the problem. Predictable routes are too easy to cover and there are not many multiple receiver sets. But guys are getting open. Foles is just late. Any QB with anticipation and a quick release would do.

So is Foles slow at processing info or just struggling with adapting to a new offense? In Kelly's first year defenses were guessing and Foles was seeing guys when they were open but it didn't matter because defenses were confused and guys were wide open around. Plus he leaned on Riley Coopers sandlot plays often. Defenses caught up in year two, and good defenses were not fooled that first year. The Eagles just didn't play many.

If Keenum had a bigger arm I would like to see what he can do, but that won't happen with Fsher in charge. He will stick with Nick. Play action should be opening the passing game but Nicks Is in shot gun must of the time and that negates play action. Is Foles in shotgun because of bad footwork? Or is he in shotgun so he can see the field better? Either way it ruins the play action disguise that the offense was supposed to be based on. We need a guy that can play under center with decen enough feet to roll out, see down the field and throw on the run. I don't think that is Foles. His Philly nickname was cement shoes. I am guessing that wasn't because they wanted to throw him in the river.

 

[CGI_Ram]

No question Warner is right. The offense needs to fit the QB.

Foles didn't go to the probowl out of sheer luck. He might have had a nice offense around him, but he still had to execute it - which he did with great success.

Fast forward 2015 and he's now got one of the NFL's best running backs behind him. He's got a matchup weapon in Austin and some big receivers in Britt, Cook, and Quick.

Without question, the issue sits squarely with the offensive scheme. It's not working. The results aren't there. It needs to be adjusted radically.

Can Fisher and Cigs do it? Our season depends on it.

 

[Dodgersrf]

When you here guys like Montana talk about the West Coast system, they talk about "Touch down, Check down". In that order.
Many or most WC teams run it the opposite. Or at least it appears that way. When I think of the WC system, I think of dink and dunk, not what GB runs.

It is an interesting topic though. So far this season, it seems Foles looks for the deep ball first.

 

[dieterbrock]

No question Warner is right. The offense needs to fit the QB.

Foles didn't go to the probowl out of sheer luck. He might have had a nice offense around him, but he still had to execute it - which he did with great success.

Fast forward 2015 and he's now got one of the NFL's best running backs behind him. He's got a matchup weapon in Austin and some big receivers in Britt, Cook, and Quick.

Without question, the issue sits squarely with the offensive scheme. It's not working. The results aren't there. It needs to be adjusted radically.

Can Fisher and Cigs do it? Our season depends on it.

Such a great post.
Well said

 

[MrMotes]

Who knows. It's his first year. I really don think a QB has to be an ideal fit in such a simple offense. He just needs to see guys open before they actually are. The ideal QB needs to throw the ball as the play is developing not after it is already there. Foles is a tick late on most of his passes. He doesn't seem to see receivers until they are all the way open. It allows defenders to close and get hands on passes. This offense is nearly a high school offense. It is over simplified. That may be part of the problem. Predictable routes are too easy to cover and there are not many multiple receiver sets. But guys are getting open. Foles is just late. Any QB with anticipation and a quick release would do.

So is Foles slow at processing info or just struggling with adapting to a new offense? In Kelly's first year defenses were guessing and Foles was seeing guys when they were open but it didn't matter because defenses were confused and guys were wide open around. Plus he leaned on Riley Coopers sandlot plays often. Defenses caught up in year two, and good defenses were not fooled that first year. The Eagles just didn't play many.

If Keenum had a bigger arm I would like to see what he can do, but that won't happen with Fsher in charge. He will stick with Nick. Play action should be opening the passing game but Nicks Is in shot gun must of the time and that negates play action. Is Foles in shotgun because of bad footwork? Or is he in shotgun so he can see the field better? Either way it ruins the play action disguise that the offense was supposed to be based on. We need a guy that can play under center with decen enough feet to roll out, see down the field and throw on the run. I don't think that is Foles. His Philly nickname was cement shoes. I am guessing that wasn't because they wanted to throw him in the river.

My question was a little tongue in cheek.

Nick Foles has been to the Pro Bowl.

There's no indication Frank Cignetti is an NFL caliber OC.

I just think we might be looking in the wrong direction...

 

[Athos]

Maybe Cigs isn't the OC we need. He's just proving how bad Shotty was by being somewhat better. Like Shotty tho, he falls in love with the same calls until the D keys in on it and blows it up.

I'm still not convinced Foles is all that good... But some changes need to be made to make sure.

 

[BriansRams]

Do you have access to a copy of coach's all 22 game film of the Vikes game? If I had not seen it maybe I would not be so far over the edge. I'm sorry I'll wait a while on posting till my mind forgets what I saw.

LOL LOL LOL
OK that was funny! You gotta admit it 503.