Keenum and 1's looked sharp

[jrry32]

Why don't you address the entire post? You guys clamoring for him to start against the 1's who mostly have 5-10 years in the NFL have EATEN up this kind of QB from every where. The defenses from these teams are animals, they will blitz the S out of him and will destroy him.

There are a number of QB's who have tried to do the same and have been completely shut down. Sit him for 1-2 years and see how he progresses.

I wonder if the NFL coaches who started rookie QBs over the past decade knew this? This must be why every rookie starting QB over the past decade has been absolutely terrible, right?

 

[Dolpho]

crap. I didn't realize he was picked off 5 times by Utah last week. Or was it this week? Wait, when do we play Utah?



It speaks to both.

If he doesn't have the mental fortitude to play QB, I'd rather find that out than delay inevitable.



Jameis Winston
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Andy Dalton
Cam Newton

Feel free to google those players, look at how they performed in their rookie preseasons, and then you can come back and argue to us that they shouldn't have played as rookies.

Go ahead and question my IQ. You would have questioned the IQ of the guy saying play Cam Newton or play Jameis Winston or play Andy Dalton too. Guess how that would have worked out for you?

What did those bad performances mean for Matt Ryan, Jameis Winston, Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, and Cam Newton?

I'd take the rookie version of each and every one of those guys over Case Keenum. And I bet that the rookie version of Goff will be superior too. If Fisher doesn't waste all of our time with his typical nonsense.

I'll take your first example. Jameis had a 58% completion %, 22 Td's to 15 ints. The Bucs went 6-10. That's not good. Look at Blake Bortles and Mariota if you want a more accurate representation. You guys expecting Goff to be a playoff QB, or hell even a GOOD QB need to temper your expectations.

This is the NFL, these people are animals who want death upon the QB. This is no place to put a QB who can barely call snaps from center.

 

[jrry32]

I'll take your first example. Jameis had a 58% completion %, 22 Td's to 15 ints. The Bucs went 6-10. That's not good.

312/535
58.3%
4042 passing yards
7.6 YPA
22 passing TDs
15 Ints
84.2 QB Rating
213 rushing yards
6 rushing TDs
2 fumbles lost

Basically, Winston accounted for 4200+ yards and 28 TDs to 17 TOs as a rookie. You want to know what our QBs accounted for? 2800+ yards and 12 TDs to 15 TOs last year.

Give me rookie Jameis Winston any day of the week and twice on Sundays. With rookie Jameis Winston, we make the playoffs last year.

Look at Blake Bortles and Mariota if you want a more accurate representation. You guys expecting Goff to be a playoff QB, or hell even a GOOD QB need to temper your expectations.

Mariota as in Marcus Mariota? The guy who posted a 91.5 QB Rating and 21 TDs to 16 TOs in 12 games last year. He's still far better than the QBs we had last year. And again, we would have made the playoffs with him.

Goff doesn't need to be a good QB. All he has to be is a good ROOKIE QB and we make the playoffs. We got 12 TDs to 15 TOs from our QBs last year. The bar isn't set high.

And unlike Keenum, Goff offers a bright future and a lot of upside.

This is the NFL, these people are animals who want death upon the QB. This is no place to put a QB who can barely call snaps from center.

This is the NFL. Goff is a NFL QB. He'll be just fine.

 

[OldSchool]

5 times against UTAH?
Man, we need to cut this kid asap
I mean UTAH??

Yeah I mean they were only one of the better defenses in college football last year

 

[Dolpho]

I wonder if the NFL coaches who started rookie QBs over the past decade knew this? This must be why every rookie starting QB over the past decade has been absolutely terrible, right?

I don't know where in the world you got this statement from. "This must be why every rookie starting QB over the past decade has been absolutely terrible, right?"

If you want to argue, then represent my statements accurately. Rookie QB's have proven OVER AND OVER to have a mixed bag of results. There is nothing Goff has done, in his college or preseason record to say that he will have a winning career. He has proven, this preseason, to be a mess (so far). He DID look good against 3rd/4th teamers in the second half against the Chiefs.

He has held onto the ball to long, shown poor decisions and has been not good. Those are the facts.

As I said in my original post, Goff is a long way from adjusting to the NFL speed and culture. I honestly am fine with Keenum starting this year and Goff taking reps from the second team to gain experience.

Throwing him out there will do NO good, y'all can look up the examples but there are PLENTY.

Jrry you have consistently advocated for Goff to take over first team reps and blamed it on the coaches for the reason he has under performed. Do you know acknowledge their expertise in evaluating QB's, their progression and knowledge? If so I'd love to hear your vast experience in developing QB's going from college to the NFL.

 

[OldSchool]

Sometimes I wonder at people sobriety when they watch games. I just don't see the same things as some people report seeing.

 

[dieterbrock]

I don't know where in the world you got this statement from. "This must be why every rookie starting QB over the past decade has been absolutely terrible, right?"

If you want to argue, then represent my statements accurately. Rookie QB's have proven OVER AND OVER to have a mixed bag of results. There is nothing Goff has done, in his college or preseason record to say that he will have a winning career. He has proven, this preseason, to be a mess (so far). He DID look good against 3rd/4th teamers in the second half against the Chiefs.

He has held onto the ball to long, shown poor decisions and has been not good. Those are the facts.

As I said in my original post, Goff is a long way from adjusting to the NFL speed and culture. I honestly am fine with Keenum starting this year and Goff taking reps from the second team to gain experience.

Throwing him out there will do NO good, y'all can look up the examples but there are PLENTY.

Jrry you have consistently advocated for Goff to take over first team reps and blamed it on the coaches for the reason he has under performed. Do you know acknowledge their expertise in evaluating QB's, their progression and knowledge? If so I'd love to hear your vast experience in developing QB's going from college to the NFL.

You realize the alternative is Case Keenum right?
He threw 6, that's SIX interceptions vs Air Force!
Maybe we should start Mannion??

 

[Dolpho]

312/535
58.3%
4042 passing yards
7.6 YPA
22 passing TDs
15 Ints
84.2 QB Rating
213 rushing yards
6 rushing TDs
2 fumbles lost

Basically, Winston accounted for 4200+ yards and 28 TDs to 17 TOs as a rookie. You want to know what our QBs accounted for? 2800+ yards and 12 TDs to 15 TOs last year.

Give me rookie Jameis Winston any day of the week and twice on Sundays. With rookie Jameis Winston, we make the playoffs last year.



Mariota as in Marcus Mariota? The guy who posted a 91.5 QB Rating and 21 TDs to 16 TOs in 12 games last year. He's still far better than the QBs we had last year. And again, we would have made the playoffs with him.

Goff doesn't need to be a good QB. All he has to be is a good ROOKIE QB and we make the playoffs. We got 12 TDs to 15 TOs from our QBs last year. The bar isn't set high.

And unlike Keenum, Goff offers a bright future and a lot of upside.



This is the NFL. Goff is a NFL QB. He'll be just fine.

First of all, those stats aren't impressive. Look at the season RG3 posted before he fell apart and he was the 1st pick overall. Compare QB's to QB's, not QB's to our entire team, where Foles threw a TON of INT's. Keenum threw 4 TD's and 1 INT.

You don't seem to be addressing my main question, you said again, "Give me rookie Jameis Winston any day of the week and twice on Sundays. With rookie Jameis Winston, we make the playoffs last year."

What possible evidence do you have to make such a statement? What on EARTH has shown you that he can lead the rams to the playoffs?

 

[Dolpho]

You realize the alternative is Case Keenum right?
He threw 6, that's SIX interceptions vs Air Force!
Maybe we should start Mannion??

Look at his performance in the preseason, then look at Goff's. It's very simple. I want the rams to WIN and have a good season.

It sounds like you guys want the Rams to SUCK and have a bad season as long as he gets experience which, may or MAY NOT payoff.

See what I'm getting at?

 

[jrry32]

I don't know where in the world you got this statement from. "This must be why every rookie starting QB over the past decade has been absolutely terrible, right?"

From your claims that we need to sit Goff because other rookie QBs have been "shut down." If NFL coaches followed your logic, no rookie QB would ever play.

If you want to argue, then represent my statements accurately. Rookie QB's have proven OVER AND OVER to have a mixed bag of results. There is nothing Goff has done, in his college or preseason record to say that he will have a winning career. He has proven, this preseason, to be a mess (so far). He DID look good against 3rd/4th teamers in the second half against the Chiefs.

Yep. There is a mixed bag of results. Which doesn't support your argument that Goff should sit unless you can prove Goff will fall on the bad side of the results. You have yet to do that.

He has held onto the ball to long, shown poor decisions and has been not good. Those are the facts.

Those are opinions, not facts. If you doubt this, go get a dictionary.

As I said in my original post, Goff is a long way from adjusting to the NFL speed and culture. I honestly am fine with Keenum starting this year and Goff taking reps from the second team to gain experience.

Your opinion, not mine.

Throwing him out there will do NO good, y'all can look up the examples but there are PLENTY.

Peyton Manning: "These young guys that are playing — I still like the ones that get to play early. I still think that’s the best way to learn."

Jrry you have consistently advocated for Goff to take over first team reps and blamed it on the coaches for the reason he has under performed. Do you know acknowledge their expertise in evaluating QB's, their progression and knowledge? If so I'd love to hear your vast experience in developing QB's going from college to the NFL.

I can acknowledge their expertise and still say they're wrong. Fisher did this before in 2006. It cost his team a shot at the playoffs. If we were to use your logic, none of us would have had the right to criticize the picks and decisions made by people like Spags, Devaney, Linehan, etc. Despite the criticisms from the fanbase generally being correct.

Basically, don't appeal to authority. I don't give a shit. I'm going to express my opinion rather than take Fisher's words/decisions as the gospel. If you think Fisher can do no wrong, feel free to quote him in every post of yours since your opinion apparently isn't qualified enough to hold water.

 

[jrry32]

First of all, those stats aren't impressive. Look at the season RG3 posted before he fell apart and he was the 1st pick overall. Compare QB's to QB's, not QB's to our entire team, where Foles threw a TON of INT's. Keenum threw 4 TD's and 1 INT.

You don't seem to be addressing my main question, you said again, "Give me rookie Jameis Winston any day of the week and twice on Sundays. With rookie Jameis Winston, we make the playoffs last year."

What possible evidence do you have to make such a statement? What on EARTH has shown you that he can lead the rams to the playoffs?

They may not be "impressive." But they're better than what Foles and Keenum provided this team. And luckily for Goff, he's not competing with Aaron Rodgers.

Keenum had 4 TDs to 3 TOs in 5 starts. That's bad. And 4 of the 5 starts came against teams that didn't make the playoffs. He was an uninspiring game manager.

What possible evidence do I have? The Rams lost four games last year by one score or less. The Rams won a total of 7 games. Jameis Winston put the ball in the end-zone 16 more times than our QBs did. The math there is pretty simple.

What on earth has shown me that he can lead the Rams to the playoffs? His ability to score points. Something Keenum and Foles failed to do.

 

[OldSchool]

What on earth has shown me that he can lead the Rams to the playoffs? His ability to score points. Something Keenum and Foles failed to do.

He's looked better than Foles for a few games last year and a few drives in preseason this year. Which is to say he's done absolutely nothing to earn the massive praise he's being given by some people.

 

[dieterbrock]

Look at his performance in the preseason, then look at Goff's. It's very simple. I want the rams to WIN and have a good season.

It sounds like you guys want the Rams to SUCK and have a bad season as long as he gets experience which, may or MAY NOT payoff.

See what I'm getting at?

Nope, I do not see what you are getting at.
The Rams alternative is Case Keenum who has played in enough NFL games to see what he's got. He was terrible in losses against Baltimore and San Fran, wasn't a factor in either the Detroit or Seattle win and was great in the 1st half of the Tampa game. I have no confidence that Keenum gives the Rams a chance to win.
So they made the move to get Goff. Awesome
And all they've done is support Keenum. Defies all logic

 

[Dolpho]

From your claims that we need to sit Goff because other rookie QBs have been "shut down." If NFL coaches followed your logic, no rookie QB would ever play.

Yep. There is a mixed bag of results. Which doesn't support your argument that Goff should sit unless you can prove Goff will fall on the bad side of the results. You have yet to do that.

Those are opinions, not facts. If you doubt this, go get a dictionary.

Your opinion, not mine.

Peyton Manning: "These young guys that are playing — I still like the ones that get to play early. I still think that’s the best way to learn."

I can acknowledge their expertise and still say they're wrong. Fisher did this before in 2006. It cost his team a shot at the playoffs. If we were to use your logic, none of us would have had the right to criticize the picks and decisions made by people like Spags, Devaney, Linehan, etc. Despite the criticisms from the fanbase generally being correct.

Basically, don't appeal to authority. I don't give a crap. I'm going to express my opinion rather than take Fisher's words/decisions as the gospel. If you think Fisher can do no wrong, feel free to quote him in every post of yours since your opinion apparently isn't qualified enough to hold water.

That's not what I said, rookie QB's have been drafted and have sat while they gain experience. This is hardly a new phenomenon. Even first rounders have been benched for the more experienced players.

"From your claims that we need to sit Goff because other rookie QBs have been "shut down." If NFL coaches followed your logic, no rookie QB would ever play"

That's not what I claimed at all. If the QB has a legitimate chance to win, then he should start games. Goff doesn't, he has looked LOST in the preseason. You can point to the turnovers he has committed over the first 2 preseason games. You can also look at the history of him starting at CAL, the mentions of him having trouble calling plays and handing off the ball in PRACTICE. What I said, and I clearly said, was that rookie QB's are a mixed bag. That's all I said.

I'm only going to address your first paragraph because it's sounding like you're a total Goff homer and I don't have time for that. He has not EVER called plays in a huddle, he has not shown maturity in the pocket in the preseason, he has not shown a maturity required to lead a team to the playoffs (which you said he will...). He has not shown what he can do in practices, from most accounts Keenum has out-performed him and he is still LEARNING.

Even Coach Fisher has acknowledged we need to be patient with him. These are my opinions based upon facts and you can agree with them all you want, but they are well supported by people actually COACHING the QB's and the team.

 

[Dolpho]

Nope, I do not see what you are getting at.
The Rams alternative is Case Keenum who has played in enough NFL games to see what he's got. He was terrible in losses against Baltimore and San Fran, wasn't a factor in either the Detroit or Seattle win and was great in the 1st half of the Tampa game. I have no confidence that Keenum gives the Rams a chance to win.
So they made the move to get Goff. Awesome
And all they've done is support Keenum. Defies all logic

Keenum starts as long as Goff is learning the basics. It's as simple as that. I'm not saying Keenum is better than Goff in the long term but you are insinuating differently.

Start Keenum this year, see how he does. If he does badly towards the end of the season then put in Goff. I don't know what's so hard to understand?

 

[dieterbrock]

I don't know where in the world you got this statement from. "This must be why every rookie starting QB over the past decade has been absolutely terrible, right?"

Because in the last 8 years, 5 rookie QB have led their team in to the playoffs and 4 OROY

 

[OldSchool]

Keenum starts as long as Goff is learning the basics. It's as simple as that. I'm not saying Keenum is better than Goff in the long term but you are insinuating differently.

Start Keenum this year, see how he does. If he does badly towards the end of the season then put in Goff. I don't know what's so hard to understand?

What's hard to understand is how somebody could think Keenum and his obvious limitation is a better QB for the Rams to win with this year. What's hard to understand is how somebody could think that Goff would be better off sitting on the bench behind a journeyman backup with a limited skill set. And don't quote me Aaron Rodgers if we had Brett Favre on the Rams nobody would be asking for Goff to start this year.

 

[RAMpage28]

Saying James and Mariota and Bortles didn't help their teams win is silly. All of them were drafed by teams that were naturally picking in the top 5. They went to bad teams who had, and still have poor defenses, that's why you don't see those teams in the playoffs with rookie QBs.

And those guys did improve the teams win totals.

RG3 was also not selected 1st overall to be technical.

 

[jrry32]

That's not what I said, rookie QB's have been drafted and have sat while they gain experience. This is hardly a new phenomenon. Even first rounders have been benched for the more experienced players.

The last #1 overall pick at QB to not start the first game was JaMarcus Russell in 2007.

"From your claims that we need to sit Goff because other rookie QBs have been "shut down." If NFL coaches followed your logic, no rookie QB would ever play"

That's not what I claimed at all. If the QB has a legitimate chance to win, then he should start games. Goff doesn't, he has looked LOST in the preseason. You can point to the turnovers he has committed over the first 2 preseason games. You can also look at the history of him starting at CAL, the mentions of him having trouble calling plays and handing off the ball in PRACTICE. What I said, and I clearly said, was that rookie QB's are a mixed bag. That's all I said.

Jameis Winston, Matt Ryan, Andy Dalton, Cam Newton, and Joe Flacco all looked lost in their rookie preseasons. All 5 started as rookies. All 5 had good years for rookie QBs. 3 out of the 5 helped their team make the playoffs.

That's not all you're saying. You're claiming Goff shouldn't play. If your only point was that rookie QBs are a mixed bag, it wouldn't support that Goff should sit on the bench. There's a much greater implication there.

I'm only going to address your first paragraph because it's sounding like you're a total Goff homer and I don't have time for that. He has not EVER called plays in a huddle, he has not shown maturity in the pocket in the preseason, he has not shown a maturity required to lead a team to the playoffs (which you said he will...). He has not shown what he can do in practices, from most accounts Keenum has out-performed him and he is still LEARNING.

Yep. I'm a total Goff homer. Jared Goff was the Rams #1 overall pick. No reason not to be a Goff homer if you're a Rams fan.

You can tell us what you think he hasn't shown. But I, and many others, don't agree with you. And considering we've seen him call plays in the huddle, you're wrong.

Even Coach Fisher has acknowledged we need to be patient with him. These are my opinions based upon facts and you can agree with them all you want, but they are well supported by people actually COACHING the QB's and the team.

What facts? You have included very little in the way of facts.

As for Fisher, this is the same guy who said that Bradford was his QB before trading him and that Austin Davis was his starter before benching him. Even if he were credible, I am not compelled to lend his opinion any credence.

Consider this fact: I am aware of what Fisher said. It was posted on this board before our discussion began. Yet, my opinion hasn't changed. How effective do you think you telling me what I already know is going to be at changing my opinion?