Jrry32's Plan

[jrry32]

As far as Jrry32's plan, I think it's fun but flawed. Minnesota's starting Matt Cassel this week and I don't think he'll be giving up the job. That team is so good that a caretaker QB is all they need, which is what Cassel is and what Ponder isn't even as good as.

Cassel is awful. That's why they'd make the deal. Bradford can manage the game and is MUCH more talented and dynamic than Cassel and Ponder.

I'm not in love with the guy or anything but he's proved he can play at a high level. He's been Alex Smith'd almost as much as Bradford though so I don't know that I'd discount him for what happened in KC. I don't expect ANY QB to be productive under Romeo Crennel. Cassel will be fine with Minnesota and at least good enough to keep them from spending heavy resources in a trade.

I don't like him. Don't think he's any good.

As far as Hue, the guy gets the most out of his personnel. Don't underestimate him. He's not Schotty.

 

[moklerman]

As far as Jrry32's plan, I think it's fun but flawed. Minnesota's starting Matt Cassel this week and I don't think he'll be giving up the job. That team is so good that a caretaker QB is all they need, which is what Cassel is and what Ponder isn't even as good as.

Cassel is awful. That's why they'd make the deal. Bradford can manage the game and is MUCH more talented and dynamic than Cassel and Ponder.

I'm not in love with the guy or anything but he's proved he can play at a high level. He's been Alex Smith'd almost as much as Bradford though so I don't know that I'd discount him for what happened in KC. I don't expect ANY QB to be productive under Romeo Crennel. Cassel will be fine with Minnesota and at least good enough to keep them from spending heavy resources in a trade.

I don't like him. Don't think he's any good.

As far as Hue, the guy gets the most out of his personnel. Don't underestimate him. He's not Schotty.

I'm not sure what you're basing that on. I know his name has popped up from time to time but what has he ever really done? I don't dispute his motivational skills but I want more than that for the entire offense. Has he ever been in charge of a successful offense or just been a successful position coach?

 

[jrry32]

I'm not sure what you're basing that on. I know his name has popped up from time to time but what has he ever really done? I don't dispute his motivational skills but I want more than that for the entire offense. Has he ever been in charge of a successful offense or just been a successful position coach?

Yes. He was the Raiders OC when they had the #6 offense in 2010. THE RAIDERS.

 

[moklerman]

No to Mularkey. Hell to the no.

As for Martz, I don't share your enthusiasm for him as a HC. I remember his terrible game/challenge management skills.

Martz and Lovie didn't work in Chicago because the Bears OL was a dumpster fire and they had no WRs.

But actually...it did work pretty well, the Bears were 11-5 in 2010 making it to the NFC Champ game and they were 7-3 in 2011 before Cutler got hurt and were averaging 27 PPG in 2011 with Cutler.

So I'm not opposed to Martz but I'd rather have Hue Jackson at this point and let Martz enjoy retirement.

Mularkey's not my first choice either but he's had good success as an OC. But more importantly, he has ties to Snead. Don't know if that's good or bad though. Snead may have been the one to let him walk for all I know but didn't Mularkey have a hand in developing Roethlisberger and Ryan? I don't know, I'm not that passionate about the choice I'm just anxious to have anyone that isn't "BS"(See what I did there? )

As far as Martz in Chicago, the numbers look good but I don't think it really worked there at all. Martz was essentially neutered and then fired by Lovie because he wasn't running the ball as much as they wanted so I don't like that dynamic repeating itself. I feel if any team should give Martz another chance to do things his way, the Rams would be it. With a true scouting department in place and real football operations, I think Martz would do well. He went from the Rams who were suffering from undetected cancer to the Millen led Lions to the 49ers who were falling apart to a bad fit in Chicago. His problems have been magnified by poor situations.

 

[jrry32]

No to Martz as HC.

 

[moklerman]

I'm not sure what you're basing that on. I know his name has popped up from time to time but what has he ever really done? I don't dispute his motivational skills but I want more than that for the entire offense. Has he ever been in charge of a successful offense or just been a successful position coach?

Yes. He was the Raiders OC when they had the #6 offense in 2010. THE RAIDERS.

I call fluke. He was also the HC the following year and they took a big step back. In 2010, they didn't really get much production out of Campbell at QB and Gradkowski had some heroics but it all came down to the good running game they had and the miraculously healthy Darren McFadden.

Probably the o-line by Cable too.

But, you're right that he had a good year. You can't take it off his resume' but I don't really think it was anything he was doing in terms of scheme or innovation or play calling.

 

[jrry32]

I'm not sure what you're basing that on. I know his name has popped up from time to time but what has he ever really done? I don't dispute his motivational skills but I want more than that for the entire offense. Has he ever been in charge of a successful offense or just been a successful position coach?

Yes. He was the Raiders OC when they had the #6 offense in 2010. THE RAIDERS.

I call fluke. He was also the HC the following year and they took a big step back. In 2010, they didn't really get much production out of Campbell at QB and Gradkowski had some heroics but it all came down to the good running game they had and the miraculously healthy Darren McFadden.

Probably the o-line by Cable too.

But, you're right that he had a good year. You can't take it off his resume' but I don't really think it was anything he was doing in terms of scheme or innovation or play calling.

Took a big step back? They won the same amount of games. The "big" step back was McFadden getting hurt and Campbell getting hurt forcing them to start Palmer who didn't know the playbook.

McFadden was doing the same thing he did in 2010 but just didn't stay healthy.

That's not a fluke. He got that offense playing above their level especially when McFadden was healthy.

They averaged 26.7 PPG in 2011 in the games that Campbell started.

 

[moklerman]

I'm not sure what you're basing that on. I know his name has popped up from time to time but what has he ever really done? I don't dispute his motivational skills but I want more than that for the entire offense. Has he ever been in charge of a successful offense or just been a successful position coach?

Yes. He was the Raiders OC when they had the #6 offense in 2010. THE RAIDERS.

I call fluke. He was also the HC the following year and they took a big step back. In 2010, they didn't really get much production out of Campbell at QB and Gradkowski had some heroics but it all came down to the good running game they had and the miraculously healthy Darren McFadden.

Probably the o-line by Cable too.

But, you're right that he had a good year. You can't take it off his resume' but I don't really think it was anything he was doing in terms of scheme or innovation or play calling.

Took a big step back? They won the same amount of games. The "big" step back was McFadden getting hurt and Campbell getting hurt forcing them to start Palmer who didn't know the playbook.

McFadden was doing the same thing he did in 2010 but just didn't stay healthy.

That's not a fluke. He got that offense playing above their level especially when McFadden was healthy.

The problem then is A) the Rams aren't built for a strong running game and B) don't have a Darren McFadden type running back to lean on.

Or are you saying that Jackson can make the passing game work in the same way?

I also wonder why he isn't a coordinator anywhere right now instead of a position coach with his old team the Bengals?

 

[jrry32]

The problem then is A) the Rams aren't built for a strong running game and B) don't have a Darren McFadden type running back to lean on.

Or are you saying that Jackson can make the passing game work in the same way?

I also wonder why he isn't a coordinator anywhere right now instead of a position coach with his old team the Bengals?

<a class="postlink" href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130305/hue-jackson/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/ne ... e-jackson/</a>

Jackson doesn't have to run a run-centered offense. It's just what played up to Oakland's strengths...I know. Playing up to a team's strengths...it is possible. :lol:

I am saying that Jackson will put his offensive personnel in a position to use them in ways that best fits their skill-sets.

Also, McFadden is a FA at the end of the year. :ww:

 

[moklerman]

The problem then is A) the Rams aren't built for a strong running game and B) don't have a Darren McFadden type running back to lean on.

Or are you saying that Jackson can make the passing game work in the same way?

I also wonder why he isn't a coordinator anywhere right now instead of a position coach with his old team the Bengals?

<a class="postlink" href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130305/hue-jackson/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/ne ... e-jackson/</a>

Jackson doesn't have to run a run-centered offense. It's just what played up to Oakland's strengths...I know. Playing up to a team's strengths...it is possible. :lol:

I am saying that Jackson will put his offensive personnel in a position to use them in ways that best fits their skill-sets.

Also, McFadden is a FA at the end of the year. :ww:

Well, I don't agree with you about Jackson for the Rams but I do agree that he...along with most of the English speaking world, is an upgrade over Schottenheimer.

Dear Lord, how can one team go from Shurmur to Schottenheimer?

Oh, on Jackson I also worry about his motivations. He wants to be a head coach and from the little I followed the situation, undermined Cable which is what I think turns me off most about him. What root system does he run? I really don't want another transition for Bradford so that would be a factor too.

 

[jrry32]

Well, I don't agree with you about Jackson for the Rams but I do agree that he...along with most of the English speaking world, is an upgrade over Schottenheimer.

Dear Lord, how can one team go from Shurmur to Schottenheimer?

Oh, on Jackson I also worry about his motivations. He wants to be a head coach and from the little I followed the situation, undermined Cable which is what I think turns me off most about him. What root system does he run? I really don't want another transition for Bradford so that would be a factor too.

He runs a vertical Air Coryell variant.

 

[den-the-coach]

Marinhelli and Lovie are attached at the hip. IMO, he'd be end up as our DC.

Before he was ever attached to Lovie, he was attached to current Cowboy DC Monte Kiffin again it does not matter if he wanted to be with Smith the Cowboys will not grant permission and pay Marinelli very well too. With the success of the Cowboy defense Marinelli is going to be in Dallas for a very long time because quite simply Jerry Jones will never let him go unless he's at the end of his contract.

Current Viking Head Coach Leslie Frazier who could be fired this year more than likely will be Lovie's DC regardless of where Smith ends up next.

 

[jrry32]

Marinhelli and Lovie are attached at the hip. IMO, he'd be end up as our DC.

Before he was ever attached to Lovie, he was attached to current Cowboy DC Monte Kiffin again it does not matter if he wanted to be with Smith the Cowboys will not grant permission and pay Marinelli very well too. With the success of the Cowboy defense Marinelli is going to be in Dallas for a very long time because quite simply Jerry Jones will never let him go unless he's at the end of his contract.

I doubt it, Den. If he's getting offered a DC job, imo, he'll go. And if the Cowboys blocked that move, there would be a big stink made.

 

[Thordaddy]

I think we need to rebuild the fan base with people who don't blame Kroeke and Fisher for Shaw and Linehan.

I'm as crestfallen As the next guy but this regime is not 1-3 they are 8-11-1 a game and a half off .500 WHILE rebuilding. Yes they are currently playing like a 2 -14 team but the most drastic thing I'd consider now is hiring a new OC and Fisher sitting in actively on defensive meetings.

Your plan Jerry assumes they are and will always be an extension of the BK ( before Kroenke era) not gonna be that way the fight he put in to win Fisher was an indication to me he won't cheap out and he damn DAMN sure ain't payin Fisher that kind of money to go away.

Fish has three years on his contract to go we will extend that at the end of year 4 or we'll fire him thenSO c'mon in off the ledge jrru gonna get cold being out there fer 2 years

 

[max]

jrry, how do you go from saying Sam is better than Luck just a few days ago to now saying trade Sam?

Did just one or two games cause you to make such a drastic change and why?

 

[moklerman]

jrry, how do you go from saying Sam is better than Luck just a few days ago to now saying trade Sam?

Did just one or two games cause you to make such a drastic change and why?

I think he's saying it's conditional. As in, if the new coach wants his own guy, get what you can for Bradford. Not a case of Bradford sucks, get rid of him.

 

[jrry32]

jrry, how do you go from saying Sam is better than Luck just a few days ago to now saying trade Sam?

Did just one or two games cause you to make such a drastic change and why?

Bradford was better than Luck last year. He's completely regressed over the last couple weeks without protection and I've lost my confidence in his ability to continue to develop and progress with the Rams.

I've already covered this. You brought this up in another thread. He has more arm talent than Luck but it's just not working with the Rams. His field vision isn't where it needs to be and his aggressiveness/decision making is only regressing as his protection worsens. He's going to become skiddish soon. The Rams are ruining the guy.

I don't know if we can fix him...especially not with Schottenheimer.

 

[moklerman]

jrry, how do you go from saying Sam is better than Luck just a few days ago to now saying trade Sam?

Did just one or two games cause you to make such a drastic change and why?

Bradford was better than Luck last year. He's completely regressed over the last couple weeks without protection and I've lost my confidence in his ability to continue to develop and progress with the Rams.

I've already covered this. You brought this up in another thread. He has more arm talent than Luck but it's just not working with the Rams. His field vision isn't where it needs to be and his aggressiveness/decision making is only regressing as his protection worsens. He's going to become skiddish soon. The Rams are ruining the guy.

I don't know if we can fix him...especially not with Schottenheimer.

That's becoming my fear. I mean, it was always in the back of my mind but Bradford hadn't really showed any signs of it. The last few weeks though, he's been very David Carr-like. That is a very scary thought.

 

[Stranger]

I think we need to rebuild the fan base with people who don't blame Kroeke and Fisher for Shaw and Linehan.

I'm as crestfallen As the next guy but this regime is not 1-3 they are 8-11-1 a game and a half off .500 WHILE rebuilding. Yes they are currently playing like a 2 -14 team but the most drastic thing I'd consider now is hiring a new OC and Fisher sitting in actively on defensive meetings.

Your plan Jerry assumes they are and will always be an extension of the BK ( before Kroenke era) not gonna be that way the fight he put in to win Fisher was an indication to me he won't cheap out and he damn DAMN sure ain't payin Fisher that kind of money to go away.

Fish has three years on his contract to go we will extend that at the end of year 4 or we'll fire him thenSO c'mon in off the ledge jrru gonna get cold being out there fer 2 years

I don't think Fish "sees" the problem, and therefore I don't think he has the capability to fix it. He admitted not know what the issues were with the offense in his postgame radio interview. Shotty may just be a symptom, we can't know if Fish is directing his gameplanning or not.

 

[HometownBoy]

I think we need to rebuild the fan base with people who don't blame Kroeke and Fisher for Shaw and Linehan.

I'm as crestfallen As the next guy but this regime is not 1-3 they are 8-11-1 a game and a half off .500 WHILE rebuilding. Yes they are currently playing like a 2 -14 team but the most drastic thing I'd consider now is hiring a new OC and Fisher sitting in actively on defensive meetings.

Your plan Jerry assumes they are and will always be an extension of the BK ( before Kroenke era) not gonna be that way the fight he put in to win Fisher was an indication to me he won't cheap out and he damn DAMN sure ain't payin Fisher that kind of money to go away.

Fish has three years on his contract to go we will extend that at the end of year 4 or we'll fire him thenSO c'mon in off the ledge jrru gonna get cold being out there fer 2 years

I don't think Fish "sees" the problem, and therefore I don't think he has the capability to fix it. He admitted not know what the issues were with the offense in his postgame radio interview. Shotty may just be a symptom, we can't know if Fish is directing his gameplanning or not.

He's letting Schott have free reign, that's part of the problem. He's not directing Schott, this has always been Schottenheimer, go look at the Jets game play from 2009 to 2010, even in their best seasons the same thing are there. Confusing play call, lack of stretching the field, predictable play, the works. Schottenheimer just lucked into having a stellar offense that could make even that crummy play call work, especially with LT being able to run through anything. Having a running back helped make that offense look a lot better than it actually was. It's been the knock on him for years before he was even a Ram, if Sanchez and Co hadn't saved his career in 09 he would have been out on his rear a long time ago.

The problem is that Fisher ignored every person in the world that said this, hired him anyways and is sticking behind his obvious inferiority.

Fisher can't see it and nobody's to the point where they'll call him out yet.

Hopefully with the players apparently grumbling and fans growing restless Fisher will either see it himself, or Snead or Kroenke will help him see in a different light.