Jim Thomas: NFL Chat - 5/3/16(More filling, less snark)

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Wolfecola

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If you take a lot of different IQ tests, you can prepare yourself for them because you get practice at solving the same type of questions.

Right, but you still have to have the ability to solve those problems, aka intelligence. There is no memorization of answers, as each problem is unique.

Just like taking SAT or ASVAB practice tests, it can boost your score.

I've taken both of those as well, and IIRC, those are standardized tests, right? Meaning you have the same group of questions/answers? Totally different for those studying for or retaking those tests compared to IQ or Wonderlic tests.

Most players just don't give a crap to be honest...

In the case of the NFL, the deduction teams get from the Wonderlic scores might vary. Some might focus on scores, while others might look at it as a player's ability to perform under pressure, or hell, to take care of simple responsibilities. I mean if one can't be bothered with a twelve minute test, why should you expect that player to go above and beyond with other duties that might be considered outside of his normal tasks?

If they needed to score above a 20 in order to NFL then you'd see guys being coached on how to beat those tests.

You mean taught basic cognitive abilities; That's what IQ tests, which aren't standardized, and the Wonderlic, which isn't standardized either, test.

I don't really think an IQ test is a very useful tool in terms of determining how well someone can do something.

In terms of the Wonderlic: It gives you information, and then you have to solve problems based on the information given. That's how the majority of the problems on the test are, IIRC. That's definitely a tool employers can use to gauge the aptitude of potential employees, and it's pretty common-- especially in jobs (I work government contracts) that require you to read blueprints, etc. Obviously tools like that are useful enough for many companies to utilize them.
 

bluecoconuts

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Right, but you still have to have the ability to solve those problems, aka intelligence. There is no memorization of answers, as each problem is unique

Yes and no, these tests require a certain level of math and reading required, which is why you can't simply use it to determine someone's ability to learn, they may have the ability but they haven't had the necessary education. Especially when you have college athletes who have tutors do all their work for them. Every test I have some athletic tutor trying to get advanced copies of the test or the answers so they can "study" with the athlete. When we require everyone who takes a test to show us their ID to confirm it's them, the tutors say "he lost his ID, can you just scratch that rule?".. The majority of these guys aren't doing much in terms of their education while in school, they're banking on their athletic ability.

I've taken both of those as well, and IIRC, those are standardized tests, right? Meaning you have the same group of questions/answers? Totally different for those studying for or retaking those tests compared to IQ or Wonderlic tests.

Yes and no... SAT more than the ASVAB.. The ASVAB is testing for certain aspects that will make you better or worse for different jobs, but part of what they want is the "general technical" part which is essentially the IQ part of the test. Guys with low GT scores are typically in the "dumb" MOS's, combat etc.. Then they require higher GT scores for the "smart" MOS's... They also require higher GT scores for the elite units, because they want smart guys, not knuckle draggers in the elite units (Rangers, Special Forces, SEALS, etc)... But that's getting off topic... Essentially there are aspects of the ASVAB that are designed to measure how smart you are.

In the case of the NFL, the deduction teams get from the Wonderlic scores might vary. Some might focus on scores, while others might look at it as a player's ability to perform under pressure, or hell, to take care of simple responsibilities. I mean if one can't be bothered with a twelve minute test, why should you expect that player to go above and beyond with other duties that might be considered outside of his normal tasks?

One thing matters to them and one thing doesn't. Most would agree that organization is important for work correct? If you're too busy looking around for things you're not focused on your work and not getting things done. However some of the smartest people in the world are also incredibly disorganized. Hell Albert Einstein was an incredibly disorganized, but we wouldn't hold that against him? He cared about different things than making sure everything is neat. Football players are more focused on football than a silly test which most agree is pointless. Maybe some teams put more weight to the test, but I don't think it's that much weight.

You mean taught basic cognitive abilities; That's what IQ tests, which aren't standardized, and the Wonderlic, which isn't standardized either, test.

Logic, deduction, test taking, etc.. You can coach someone to comprehend information faster, shortcuts in math, vocabulary, how to use logic to quickly strike out certain answers and narrow things down to increase the odds, etc.
 

RamzFanz

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Here's the thing. Outside of Jerry Jones in Dallas or Steinbrenner in MLB when he was alive and still coherent, how many professional sports owners make it a habit of having press conferences (other than for a crucial issue like replacing the coach/manager; a player screws up (A-Rod) etc.)? Most of them are behind the scenes virtually 99% of the time except on game day in the NFL. And I thought I've heard St. Louis Ram fans say Kroenke was in attendance for a lot of games. Regardless, assuming Kroenke doesn't care, based on the number of times he's spoken to the press is B.S. IMHO.

Jeffrey Lurie has owned the Eagles for almost 20 years and I think he's had 4 press conferences. Hiring Reed, Kelly and Pederson and when T.O. was freaking out after 2004. He may have had 1 or 2 others but 5 or 6 in almost 20 years? Ask any Eagle fan if he cares about winning and to a man they'll say "I know Lurie cares about winning football games". Like Jim Thomas said, it was an ugly divorce and there are going to be hard feelings, probably for a long time. And I'm sure most St. Louis fans hope and pray Kroenke doesn't care about winning. Because if he does care and the Rams become perenniel contenders, it's going to hurt even more.

It's just an opinion based on observed behavior. Could be wrong. Georgia Frontiere was very visible, often on the sideline and in the press, smiling and talking to coaches and players, and she looked like she loved being there. Stan was occasionally too when the GSOT was around and he wasn't in charge. Then, after the initial takeover and false promises, he caspered.

My only point being it's a commonly held belief, based on his visibility and/or chronic failure, he's not emotionally invested in his teams like some other owners.

Just because some fans like the outcome of his business decisions it's not OK, to me, to wipe the whiteboard clean and skew what people are saying calling it the "worst question of the week." He is who he is. He lied to people. That's what he did. It's not the first time according to business associates and it won't be the last.

I'm sure he'll be more visible in LA. Especially with the initial big splash, new QB, and new stadium.

I don't still come here and talk Rams because I want them to lose. Now, if he were hit by a bus and a former Rams' player group bought the team, I wouldn't be upset.
 

ScotsRam

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This is true, you can be both. No one said otherwise.

The assumption that a ghost of an owner, that you rarely saw in the stadium and never heard in the press, doesn't care much about the actual sport or team is a fair one.

You realise he's moved the team twice just for money, yes?

Hopefully he'll be a better owner in LA and maybe they'll win more and give him a reason to go to games.

And he's done fuck all with Arsenal other than make loads of cash. It's his MO. I'm yet to evidence that Kroenke is committed to winning.
 

ChrisW

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It's just an opinion based on observed behavior. Could be wrong. Georgia Frontiere was very visible, often on the sideline and in the press, smiling and talking to coaches and players, and she looked like she loved being there. Stan was occasionally too when the GSOT was around and he wasn't in charge. Then, after the initial takeover and false promises, he caspered.

My only point being it's a commonly held belief, based on his visibility and/or chronic failure, he's not emotionally invested in his teams like some other owners.

Just because some fans like the outcome of his business decisions it's not OK, to me, to wipe the whiteboard clean and skew what people are saying calling it the "worst question of the week." He is who he is. He lied to people. That's what he did. It's not the first time according to business associates and it won't be the last.

I'm sure he'll be more visible in LA. Especially with the initial big splash, new QB, and new stadium.

I don't still come here and talk Rams because I want them to lose. Now, if he were hit by a bus and a former Rams' player group bought the team, I wouldn't be upset.

When the media starts questioning, he'll disappear. That's why his last interview in STL was 2010. He sure has turned talkative since going to LA.


And he's done freak all with Arsenal other than make loads of cash. It's his MO. I'm yet to evidence that Kroenke is committed to winning.

Arsenal could run the table every year if they spent money. But, they don't.

It'd be fun to look at every one of Stan's teams to see how active they are in F/A periods.
 

tonyl711

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That's another false assumption. He was seen in the Dome very often. I've seen him at Arsenal games and at Avalanche games. I guess when you own so many teams it really does become hard to be at all their games all the time.
who was it you think seen him at the dome? i recall years of hearing he wasnt there, and i watched every game from the dome and i can count on one hand the times he was shown watching a game there.
 

tonyl711

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lol, getting touchy there? he stated facts that did happen here, then said hopefully they dont have to go through that, i dont see how thats snarky. its just saying what everyone knows, that being that if you lose every season for 13 season your fan base will dwindle, its easy to support a winning team, ALOT of fans would be gone after 13 non winning seasons no matter what team it is.
 

OldSchool

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who was it you think seen him at the dome? i recall years of hearing he wasnt there, and i watched every game from the dome and i can count on one hand the times he was shown watching a game there.
Every week in the game day threads there were tweets from JT and others with a pic of Kroenke. We've gone over this before and after you've seen the picks and seen it talked about you still don't believe. This is all the time I'm going to spend on this subject that has been explained to you countless times.
 

Mojo Ram

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lol, getting touchy there? he stated facts that did happen here, then said hopefully they dont have to go through that, i dont see how thats snarky. its just saying what everyone knows, that being that if you lose every season for 13 season your fan base will dwindle, its easy to support a winning team, ALOT of fans would be gone after 13 non winning seasons no matter what team it is.
If you think those words were typed simply to state "the facts" then you're just being naive to the bitter agenda, and i for one, have had enough of it...from JT, from fans and from the city of St Louis.

It has no place here.
 

tonyl711

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Every week in the game day threads there were tweets from JT and others with a pic of Kroenke. We've gone over this before and after you've seen the picks and seen it talked about you still don't believe. This is all the time I'm going to spend on this subject that has been explained to you countless times.
youve never showed me any pics and i still havent read anywhere where he was there on even a semi regular basis,
 

tonyl711

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If you think those words were typed simply to state "the facts" then you're just being naive to the bitter agenda, and i for one, have had enough of it...from JT, from fans and from the city of St Louis.

It has no place here.
are the words fact? or are they not? it has no place here? really? when the Rams were in St Louis we heard regularly about why the fans werent showing up at games before they moved to St Louis, yet somehow we cant say why fans werent showing up at the end here? where was this indignation when the shoe was on the other foot?