Jared Goff

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LACHAMP46

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Now Jared Goff who is about to pass for 4k+ yards and has a chance for 30 TD's while only throwing 7 Ints has his 2 best games of the year based on this garbage stat as a 92.3 and a 94.9! Stop with this stat it's almost as embarrassing as your defense of Quick and GRob.
I'm showing you the reasoning behind the stat....surely it was devised by men that know much more about the difficulties of performing as a QB in the NFL than you or I? How could we question such experience? LOLOL

If Quick dropped as many passes as some current receivers...he'd be offered up as a sacrifice. If G-Rob allowed as many sacks as a current LT on a winning team....he'd be called all sorts of names.....

Again....if so many players struggled under our old regime...yet became much players away from them, why couldn't these two??? I hope it's not the ole double standard....not from YOU oleschool. LOL
 

Loyal

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I'm showing you the reasoning behind the stat....surely it was devised by men that know much more about the difficulties of performing as a QB in the NFL than you or I? How could we question such experience? LOLOL

If Quick dropped as many passes as some current receivers...he'd be offered up as a sacrifice. If G-Rob allowed as many sacks as a current LT on a winning team....he'd be called all sorts of names.....

Again....if so many players struggled under our old regime...yet became much players away from them, why couldn't these two??? I hope it's not the ole double standard....not from YOU oleschool. LOL
You just didn't stick up for G-Rob enough this year..he missed your psychic goodwill to avoid his tendency to foul every play and to prevent unobstructed paths to Stafford..... you BASTID!
 

LACHAMP46

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All that aside, Champ, you cannot deny that Wentz runs to contact.
Not always....watch his highlights....I do notice he will do whatever is necessary to reach a first down...or touchdown....not worrying about contact or defenders. I think it's impressive....much better than say, falling down with pressure....when not touched. He actually slides pretty good. Dude is a solid athlete.
ESPN's "Total QBR" however is complete trash and I cant take anyone seriously if using it to support or criticize a player...
Meh....Any stat is not always an accurate measure...you must take them into context....QBR is looking at fine details....

I never brought it into the discussion as a measure on Goff...only that it has some validity....it's comparing a QB going against a poor secondary...versus one that's facing a superior secondary...and pass rush...Surely you'd agree, completing passes with Aaron Donald chasing you is more....challenging than facing the Browns rush?

All stats need a huge number/sample....in large sample sizes, statistics become more relevant...more weight should be given. Small sample sizes can, and do...lie.
 

OldSchool

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I'm showing you the reasoning behind the stat....surely it was devised by men that know much more about the difficulties of performing as a QB in the NFL than you or I? How could we question such experience? LOLOL

If Quick dropped as many passes as some current receivers...he'd be offered up as a sacrifice. If G-Rob allowed as many sacks as a current LT on a winning team....he'd be called all sorts of names.....

Again....if so many players struggled under our old regime...yet became much players away from them, why couldn't these two??? I hope it's not the ole double standard....not from YOU oleschool. LOL
I just gave you two of thousands of reasons to doubt qbr and you double down on the validity of it :D

Have a nice day and a wonderful happy New Years!
 

LACHAMP46

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True but it’s hard to continually win when you’re not on the field bc of injuries. Running qbs and qbs with the style of play that Wentz have open themselves up to a higher chance of injuries.

Seemed like last week...bunch of QB's were taking off...running...moving in the pocket....Only the few in here, don't appreciate a good scrambler....and that's a shame....in the next few weeks....we shall see which QB's are the most dangerous...and difficult to defend.

Again....show me some numbers that prove running QB's get MORE hurt than stationary QB's....

Injuries are impossible to predict....I believe it's a combination of things....natural structure....frequency of hits.....flexibility...strength & training....and of course...LUCK.
 

LACHAMP46

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The Eagles team we saw last night, struggling hard in the cold, is not going to get it done.
Nope....but doubt anyone sees that team...motivation is strong in athletes...they probably figured they'd pound the Raiders....and they found out, the Raiders have some talent...esp. on offense....and that new DC has a clue...the Raiders on talent are a playoff team.
Foles isn't great by any stretch...I don't really like Alshon Jefferies....but Ertz, Aghlor, and Hollins I always did appreciate their games...in college. And that O-Line is serious.
I just gave you two of thousands of reasons to doubt qbr and you double down on the validity of it
You don't expect anyone to believe YOU know more than Trent Dilfer? An NFL QB that's won a SuperBowl....
 

LACHAMP46

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You just didn't stick up for G-Rob enough this year..he missed your psychic goodwill to avoid his tendency to foul every play and to prevent unobstructed paths to Stafford..... you BASTID!
I think they had the players mixed up....Jamon Brown is the guy practicing lyrics instead of the playbook....thought you knew Loyal!
 

dieterbrock

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Not always....watch his highlights....I do notice he will do whatever is necessary to reach a first down...or touchdown....not worrying about contact or defenders. I think it's impressive....much better than say, falling down with pressure....when not touched. He actually slides pretty good. Dude is a solid athlete.
Meh....Any stat is not always an accurate measure...you must take them into context....QBR is looking at fine details....

I never brought it into the discussion as a measure on Goff...only that it has some validity....it's comparing a QB going against a poor secondary...versus one that's facing a superior secondary...and pass rush...Surely you'd agree, completing passes with Aaron Donald chasing you is more....challenging than facing the Browns rush?

All stats need a huge number/sample....in large sample sizes, statistics become more relevant...more weight should be given. Small sample sizes can, and do...lie.
QBR is total nonsense.
It’s ESPN self promotion and they are the only folks actually using it to rate players.
There are plenty of ridiculous examples of flawed ratings. For instance Prescott had a higher qbr despite throwing 2 int, and only 1 td pass which was actually a score for the Seahawks then did Case Keenum who was turnover free and threw a td pass.
It’s just embarrassing that ESPN still tries to pawn it off as legit.
 

Legatron4

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Dan Marino was the greatest passer in my opinion also.
Elway was anything but average....he went to 4 super bowls...losing them all...before returning with a better Broncos team, led by Terrell Davis, winning 2. Yards passing per season was very different in his time....Which is why Marino was so great....but entirely different systems.

Not sure if many of todays players survive in the NFL as long as some of the old timers. You should see how they hit QB's then....much more violent.

Not so sure....Eagles own the home field advantage throughout the playoffs. And it's cold out there....we shall see...and soon.
I have to agree, the playing field was much different back then. But at the same time, QBs weren’t trained for the NFL as well as they are now. Also, Elway had an insanely talented team with those two superbowls. He was a gritty athlete with a big heart for the game. Which obviously you can’t measure. But strictly as a passer, he was ok.
 

bluecoconuts

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Nope....but doubt anyone sees that team...motivation is strong in athletes...they probably figured they'd pound the Raiders....and they found out, the Raiders have some talent...esp. on offense....and that new DC has a clue...the Raiders on talent are a playoff team.
Foles isn't great by any stretch...I don't really like Alshon Jefferies....but Ertz, Aghlor, and Hollins I always did appreciate their games...in college. And that O-Line is serious.

I'll be honest man, I don't really get why you care so much about how someone was in college, because college doesn't really mean anything in the NFL.

That being said, the Raiders team isn't a good team either. Every NFL team has talent on them, they're NFL players, that means nothing overall. Carr seems to just throw the ball up on a prayer half the time, it looks like they've come down to earth. Nick Foles was bad because he was bad, the Eagles offense is not the same without Wentz, and they are going to have to play good teams in the playoffs. They struggled against a bad Giants team, and struggled against a bad Raiders team. If they struggle against a bad Cowboys team that's going to be very worrisome for them in my opinion.

They haven't played well against good teams in my opinion, and without the refs calling a terrible game I think we would have beaten them by two or more possessions. The Eagles haven't looked all that great since week 12 in my opinion, not as good as they looked earlier on in the season. The pass defense has been very suspect, and without their offense firing on all cylinders they're in trouble in my opinion.
 

LACHAMP46

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It’s ESPN self promotion and they are the only folks actually using it to rate players.
There are plenty of ridiculous examples of flawed ratings. For instance Prescott had a higher qbr despite throwing 2 int, and only 1 td pass which was actually a score for the Seahawks then did Case Keenum who was turnover free and threw a td pass.
Who did Keenum play against??? Which defense? Where the INT's Prescott's fault, I believe it takes into account tipped passes and such....one of Dak's INT's were directly related to Dez's tipping the pass. If you throw for scores while behind...on the road...or any other hostile environment, they take that into account also....

Look at the leader board on the QBR.....tell me those players don't belong at the top?

http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr
 

LACHAMP46

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But strictly as a passer, he was ok.
C'mon.....John Elway played against some very good defensive teams in Cleveland in the playoffs....he was phenomanal in these games...they ran plays for him that not many teams won.....I think he put Rod Smith, McCaffery, and Shannon Sharp in the HOF. He could make any throw. In any type of coverage...and was very mobile before his knees gave out....not sure why you don't like his game....but 6 superbowls...4 with teams he carried....just doesn't compute.
I'll be honest man, I don't really get why you care so much about how someone was in college, because college doesn't really mean anything in the NFL.
College is a great indicator of future success in the pros....Gurley was a beast in college too...so was Aaron Donald.
That being said, the Raiders team isn't a good team either. Every NFL team has talent on them, they're NFL players, that means nothing overall. Carr seems to just throw the ball up on a prayer half the time, it looks like they've come down to earth.
The Raiders are a very talented team....they went 12-4 with a terrible defense last year....they lost their OC and have struggled...much like the Falcons...another talented team....with a better defense....
Nick Foles was bad because he was bad, the Eagles offense is not the same without Wentz, and they are going to have to play good teams in the playoffs.
Meh....only place he's ever looked terrible was on the Rams. Eagles beat US because of Foles....Again...the Raiders came to play....turnovers killed them.
They struggled against a bad Giants team,
Divisional game...always tough....Giants have some talent too...esp. on defense.
struggled against a bad Raiders team.
See above...
If they struggle against a bad Cowboys team that's going to be very worrisome for them in my opinion.
They may struggle...I put the Cowboys in similar place as the Raiders and Giants....very talented...poorly coached on several levels....
They haven't played well against good teams in my opinion, and without the refs calling a terrible game I think we would have beaten them by two or more possessions.
It's hard to play well vs talented teams...

Can't believe you're still blaming the refs for that performance...Ref's lean to the home team on calls...that's a stat too...that is proven...home teams get the benefit of the doubt....usually.
The Eagles haven't looked all that great since week 12 in my opinion, not as good as they looked earlier on in the season.
I thought in the 1st half versus US...the Rams...they looked every bit like they looked earlier in the season. what, you think we weren't playing hard? Not trying to win? To score? To stop them? Without the blocked punt, it wouldn't have been that close.
 

dieterbrock

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Who did Keenum play against??? Which defense? Where the INT's Prescott's fault, I believe it takes into account tipped passes and such....one of Dak's INT's were directly related to Dez's tipping the pass. If you throw for scores while behind...on the road...or any other hostile environment, they take that into account also....

Look at the leader board on the QBR.....tell me those players don't belong at the top?

http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr
Stop.
Seriously. I respect the heck out of you but can’t believe a football purist can even try to argue on its behalf.
Brett Hundley may be the worst qb I have ever seen play and he is #20. Nuff said
 

LACHAMP46

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Seriously. I respect the heck out of you but can’t believe a football purist can even try to argue on its behalf.
Brett Hundley may be the worst qb I have ever seen play and he is #20. Nuff said
Seriously? What game was I just watching...think it was last night....the backups that played with....??? Who was that team.....oh yeah, the QB's for Houston....much worse...maybe you didn't see the game.

Did you see Hundley's last game? Versus the Minn. Vikings?? Bunch of dropped passes in that game...versus a TOP defense...he gets more points...higher rating...in an incredibly tough situation. He's 20th for a reason....so are the others...dig deeper into the numbers...don't just go off of, QB so and so is ranked HERE, this can't be true.
 

Legatron4

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C'mon.....John Elway played against some very good defensive teams in Cleveland in the playoffs....he was phenomanal in these games...they ran plays for him that not many teams won.....I think he put Rod Smith, McCaffery, and Shannon Sharp in the HOF. He could make any throw. In any type of coverage...and was very mobile before his knees gave out....not sure why you don't like his game....but 6 superbowls...4 with teams he carried....just doesn't compute
Jamarcus Russell could make all the throws too. Like I said, I liked Elway as a player. He had great instincts and just the drive to be who he was. Sometimes that’s enough for players. Obviously he had plenty of success. But numbers also don’t lie. And his weren’t very good as a passer.
 

bluecoconuts

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College is a great indicator of future success in the pros....Gurley was a beast in college too...so was Aaron Donald.

I mean, not really. There are tons of super dominate players in college being trash in the pros, and tons of meh/average players becoming amazing in the pros. I've read that most scouts don't even care about college stats and mostly care about how the player is on the fundamentals.

The Raiders are a very talented team....they went 12-4 with a terrible defense last year....they lost their OC and have struggled...much like the Falcons...another talented team....with a better defense....

Again, every team has talent, but the Raiders have not been good this year.

Meh....only place he's ever looked terrible was on the Rams. Eagles beat US because of Foles....Again...the Raiders came to play....turnovers killed them.

Turnovers from Foles. Nick Foles looked good for a stretch as the Eagles, then he didn't, that's why they were willing to trade him. The Raiders coming to play means nothing, the Eagles struggled and struggled hard. They really haven't played a great, complete game of football since about week 12. Every other playoff team in the NFC has had at least one just great, dominating game since then, but not the Eagles. That's what I'm talking about.

Divisional game...always tough....Giants have some talent too...esp. on defense.

Again, every NFL team has talent, that means nothing. It doesn't excuse the fact that they struggled against a bad football team. They're the second worst team in the league, the Eagles should have beat up on them but they didn't. And that wasn't an issue with their offense like last night, it was their defense. Their pass D has been very suspect as of late. Defense is even more important in the playoffs, and the Eagles aren't trending in the right direction there.

It's hard to play well vs talented teams...

Can't believe you're still blaming the refs for that performance...Ref's lean to the home team on calls...that's a stat too...that is proven...home teams get the benefit of the doubt....usually.

That's not stopping the other playoff teams.

And yes, in this instant, the Refs had a major outcome on the game. Drive extending penalties that should have never been called gave them at least 14 points. Then the phantom penalty on their game winning field goal that allowed them to burn another minute+ off the clock, which gave the Rams 2 seconds opposed to about a minute and a half with some timeouts. That's a huge deal in a close game like that one was. It was a game of inches with two teams going toe to toe and ultimately the deciding factor was the refs extending drives after the Rams forced a stop. The Rams were the more efficient offense, and better defense according to advanced statistics. However the result isn't the most important thing, the bigger takeaway is that the Eagles may not be as good as their record suggests. The Vikings are a team that are exactly as good as their record suggests, so are the Saints, and the Steelers, and the Rams. The Eagles there's a question.

I thought in the 1st half versus US...the Rams...they looked every bit like they looked earlier in the season. what, you think we weren't playing hard? Not trying to win? To score? To stop them? Without the blocked punt, it wouldn't have been that close.

They looked pretty good the first half, I never said they didn't, but over the course of the game they became less and less impressive, especially in the second half. If the Eagles can't make those needed adjustments, they'll struggle in the playoffs. Those are the little things that will win or lose a playoff game.

I know you want the Eagles to win it all so you can pat yourself on the back and point to Wentz (even though it wont be him doing it), but they're a team limping into the post season at this point, and that's why the experts are having them slip down in their power rankings. The offense is not the same with Wentz, in fact it's rather unimpressive, which means that their offensive scheme isn't as good as the one the Vikings are running (who haven't skipped a beat with their backup QB), or the Rams offense (that just beats teams by having the better plays)... Those are all issues for the playoffs.

I really don't get this fawning over the Eagles, they were impressive for a lot of the season and everyone thought so. Since December they have been trending down, opposed to the rest of the teams in the playoff race that have been trending up.
 

bluecoconuts

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Stop.
Seriously. I respect the heck out of you but can’t believe a football purist can even try to argue on its behalf.
Brett Hundley may be the worst qb I have ever seen play and he is #20. Nuff said

Look at the top of the leader board if you want your answer.

They have Dak "I only throw TD's to the other team" Prescott as 4th, what a joke.

Although that guy ranked 31st is totally better than Goff and more NFL ready, don't forget.
 

Badfinger

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Anyone pimping for QBR as a legit stat has no football credibility. None. Period. Stop.
 

Badfinger

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And showing us the rankings for that bullshit stat will not create converts. It seems to me that some people work awfully hard to prop up teams other than the Rams, and players who are not Rams...on a Rams website...hmm...isn't there a term for that??? :cautious: