It's time for a change at OC

[Boston Ram]

Not sure where you are getting those numbers from, the only top 10 offense I see was when he had Brett Favre as his QB
2006- 18th
2007- 25th
2008- 9th (With Favre)
2009- 17th (Sanchize)
2010- 13th (Sanchize)
2011- 13th (Sanchize)
I've defended Shotty for years, and agree that he's had to endure many QB's Jets: Pennington/Clemens/Favre/Sanchez
But at best his offense has been middle of the pack

I was on my phone when I did it, but Pro Football reference confirms your numbers. That being said, 13th is pretty good with a terrible QB. Considering they were 13th in 2011 and dropped to 28th in 2012. Was basically the same offense except Holmes got hurt. Yes, Holmes was important but that is a pretty significant drop. We always complained that Bradford didn't have a consistent OC, well Shotty has had the same issues. At some point we need to look at the players. The oline has been a mess, receivers not getting off the line, UDFA QB's, receivers dropping balls. If Norv Turner was the OC we would probably be praising the performance. Im not a Shotty fan but by the same token, I think he gets a bit of a bad rap too.

Plus its been a while since any coach has had success with the Jets or Rams.

 

[dieterbrock]

9 years as an OC and the best accolade we can muster is "not bad", I'm willing to move on for higher ground.

 

[Rams43]

I think a lot of fans have Fisher wrong. He's not some crazy, overbearing guy who insists on things being his way no matter what, in order to keep this offense in the dark ages. I think he green lighted last year's aborted "opening up" of the offense by putting a lot of trust in Schotty, who was not able to get this offensive unit to produce the way they should have.

He insists on balance, sure. But so does Chip Kelly. It's a key part of offensive football. Bottom line is Schotty is letting him down because he cannot field a consistent passing offense. Even considering the injuries there is just no way he's maximizing his talent, and he never has. He never will. Not in this league.

I just pray that Fish is smart enough to push Schotty out the door. Hoping that they would promote Cigs from within before the year is out, I will admit is probably too much for Fish. But the bottom line is he's not necessarily going to be against getting a better OC in here who can run a real passing game. If I'm Snead or Demoff, right now I'm gonna be doing a lot of research on young offensive minds around the league and in college ball. I'm going to put together a strong list for Fish of guys who are demonstrating ability at OC instead of just being a coach's son, or a guy who can wow you in an interview.

I dunno, Merlin. I'm not sure firing Schotty alone solves the real problem.

Who hired Schotty after his undistinguished previous career?

And who has stubbornly stuck with him?

And the Walton hire?

And how to explain or forgive the GW debacle? I wouldn't have believed it was possible to so thoroughly neuter our front seven.

Then there's Fisher's career .525 winning percentage over 20 years.

History is telling us that Fisher will be a consistent 8-8 HC. Remember Einstein's classic definition of insanity? Why allow Fisher to give us further proof of it's validity?

I don't know about you, but I think the solution is for Kroenke to bite the $14 million bullet and fire Fisher. Then go find and hire the next Arians.

 

[Mikey Ram]

I don't think even billionaires enjoy throwing around $14 million, especially when it would be an admission of the wrong choice...Egos are LARGE at that level...He might do it, but I'd be a bit surprised...Of course I was wrong once before...It was 1972, and her name was Pamela...

 

[RamFan503]

Then go find and hire the next Arians.

And that would be......?

 

[Rams43]

I don't think even billionaires enjoy throwing around $14 million, especially when it would be an admission of the wrong choice...Egos are LARGE at that level...He might do it, but I'd be a bit surprised...Of course I was wrong once before...It was 1972, and her name was Pamela...

Point taken, Mikey.

$14 million Fisher salary dollars is a lot of money, even for a multibillionaire.

But there is an even bigger cost if Kroenke losses a big part of his fan base either in St Louis or in LA due to stubbornly extending the mediocrity for 2 more unnecessary years. And THAT kind of damage might take a decade to repair.

In that light, the $14 million "pruning" might be a bargain and a smart business move.

'Course, it's easy for me to say. It's not my $14 million. Lol.

 

[Rams43]

And that would be......?

Agh... That is the $14 million question, 503, isn't it?

The coaches are out there. Arians, Kelly, Harbaugh, Carroll, etc. all were quality assistants or college HC's before they got their chance.

The Rams must find and hire one. But please, no more stubborn 19 year veterans with career .525 winning records demanding $35 million 5 year guaranteed contracts that insist on complete autonomy need apply.

 

[Thordaddy]

Agh... That is the $14 million question, 503, isn't it?

The coaches are out there. Arians, Kelly, Harbaugh, Carroll, etc. all were quality assistants or college HC's before they got their chance.

The Rams must find and hire one. But please, no more stubborn 19 year veterans with career .525 winning records demanding $35 million 5 year guaranteed contracts that insist on complete autonomy need apply.

Oh yes by all means we need an insecure short contract poorly paid coach sort of like Scott Linehan or a desperate to get a job Steve Spagnolo, the length of Fishers contract is a strength in the desire to infuse stability in this organization,kinda think that was Kroenke's goal to begin with doubt he's planning to go against the plan , especially when the first three years include losing the starting QB for half the games .

 

[RamFan503]

Agh... That is the $14 million question, 503, isn't it?

The coaches are out there. Arians, Kelly, Harbaugh, Carroll, etc. all were quality assistants or college HC's before they got their chance.

The Rams must find and hire one. But please, no more stubborn 19 year veterans with career .525 winning records demanding $35 million 5 year guaranteed contracts that insist on complete autonomy need apply.

My point being that it is easy to say "fire so and so". Anyone can post that. The real discussion point if you are going with that mantra is with whom you would replace him. If we are to replace Fish, it should be an upgrade - right? Who do you feel is an upgrade? That is where discussion comes in. Simply saying to fire someone is just not a real discussion point.

 

[Rams43]

Oh yes by all means we need an insecure short contract poorly paid coach sort of like Scott Linehan or a desperate to get a job Steve Spagnolo, the length of Fishers contract is a strength in the desire to infuse stability in this organization,kinda think that was Kroenke's goal to begin with doubt he's planning to go against the plan , especially when the first three years include losing the starting QB for half the games .

Wow! First time in over 9000 posts that I've received a reply in blue font, Thor. Congratulations, man. Way to make a newer board poster feel welcome. Lol.

Look, I can definitely see where reasonable people could have differing opinions on keeping Fisher. Ironically, I was once one of his biggest supporters.

And I don't think continuity for it's own sake is necessarily a good thing, either. Continuous mediocrity is still... mediocrity. I would hate to see 2 more (unnecessary) years of it.

I thought he could break out of his .525 career winning record with an owner that didn't constantly interfere and complete autonomy on hiring his assistant coaches as well as ALL personnel matters. Not to mention the RG3 trade bonanza.

I now think I was wrong. The .525 record is apparently the real Fisher.

Obviously, you feel differently. That's cool. We can just agree to disagree.

 

[Rams43]

My point being that it is easy to say "fire so and so". Anyone can post that. The real discussion point if you are going with that mantra is with whom you would replace him. If we are to replace Fish, it should be an upgrade - right? Who do you feel is an upgrade? That is where discussion comes in. Simply saying to fire someone is just not a real discussion point.

I understand, 503. And I don't have a specific name or preference for you.

But here's what I do know and/or believe...

Fisher has a 20 year record of .525 winning percentage.
That's likely to continue if he stays.
That's not nearly good enough.
There are approx 300 various asst coaches currently working in the NFL (10 per team).
There are a whole host of successful HC's in the college ranks as possible candidates.
Other teams have successfully found coaching gems, so why can't we?
Demoff and Snead should be more than capable of conducting this effort.

So to me the choice is simple. Settle for more mediocrity through '16, or reach for the HC that can take us to the promised land.

 

[Rmfnlt]

I was on my phone when I did it, but Pro Football reference confirms your numbers. That being said, 13th is pretty good with a terrible QB. Considering they were 13th in 2011 and dropped to 28th in 2012. Was basically the same offense except Holmes got hurt. Yes, Holmes was important but that is a pretty significant drop. We always complained that Bradford didn't have a consistent OC, well Shotty has had the same issues. At some point we need to look at the players. The oline has been a mess, receivers not getting off the line, UDFA QB's, receivers dropping balls. If Norv Turner was the OC we would probably be praising the performance. Im not a Shotty fan but by the same token, I think he gets a bit of a bad rap too.

Plus its been a while since any coach has had success with the Jets or Rams.

The offense is not where it needs to be, that's for certain.

But it's that defense that has really let the team down.

As a whole, for whatever reason, this coaching staff seems to be unable to make in-game adjustments.

That's critical.

 

[Thordaddy]

Wow! First time in over 9000 posts that I've received a reply in blue font, Thor. Congratulations, man. Way to make a newer board poster feel welcome. Lol.

Look, I can definitely see where reasonable people could have differing opinions on keeping Fisher. Ironically, I was once one of his biggest supporters.

And I don't think continuity for it's own sake is necessarily a good thing, either. Continuous mediocrity is still... mediocrity. I would hate to see 2 more (unnecessary) years of it.

I thought he could break out of his .525 career winning record with an owner that didn't constantly interfere and complete autonomy on hiring his assistant coaches as well as ALL personnel matters. Not to mention the RG3 trade bonanza.

I now think I was wrong. The .525 record is apparently the real Fisher.

Obviously, you feel differently. That's cool. We can just agree to disagree.

Except of course mediocrity is not what Fisher has produced he has produced good and bad teams which indicates that he is indeed capable of producing good teams that can get to the "promised land" and that the highly competitive league he has coached in can and will bring you back to the pack.
I'd hardly call Weeb Eubank a coach who could only produce mediocrity , his lifetime record was .500

Sure we can agree to disagree about whether we need to make a change ,but that all we'll get is 8-8 isn't accurate ,fact is over a third of his seasons with Tenn he had 10 or more wins ,actually with as competitive as this league is and the track record of ALL the HC's ( and I contend there aren't any of them that weren't good coaches) being above .500 is something no one should sneeze at especially when you coach your entire career for vagabond franchises .
As far as the Rams themselves Fishers all time record is actually better than the Rams whose reg season record is .510 and including playoffs is .508.

I can't guarantee we'll turn the corner with Fisher ,but no one can guarantee we won't hire someone worse either so IMO anyone who can manage to be above average over that long a time and can hang around ,be in position to shine with a few breaks ( the first year Jimmie Johnsons Cowboys won the SB they had ZERO surgical injuries ) is going to catch some and then he'll be a genius like he was when he seriously out coached last years flavor of the year "best coach" Pete Carroll two weeks ago.

 

[RamFan503]

I understand, 503. And I don't have a specific name or preference for you.

But here's what I do know and/or believe...

Fisher has a 20 year record of .525 winning percentage.
That's likely to continue if he stays.
That's not nearly good enough.
There are approx 300 various asst coaches currently working in the NFL (10 per team).
There are a whole host of successful HC's in the college ranks as possible candidates.
Other teams have successfully found coaching gems, so why can't we?
Demoff and Snead should be more than capable of conducting this effort.

So to me the choice is simple. Settle for more mediocrity through '16, or reach for the HC that can take us to the promised land.

I get yuh. But I think that our division is a real oddity. We have three coaches that have taken over and been very successful. But in most cases, first time HCs and even many previous HCs don't fair all that well. And if you really look at Fish's record and consider that it is over a very long span with an owner that was a real meddler, a .525 batting average is pretty understandable. He has taken a team to the Superbowl as well. The other thing to consider with all that is that he took teams to playoffs and a Superbowl and not with talent that another coach has amassed.

I'm not saying Fish is the best coach out there but I also think we could be doing much worse and a new coach would likely want to blow this thing up yet again. I would rather have some patience and see what he does with the five years he's been signed to. Maybe there is a better coach waiting in the wings. But a couple years won't change that and I have watched this team for enough years and through enough coaches that I would like to see us give this coach a little more rope to see what he can do.

 

[CodeMonkey]

 

[Angry Ram]

I understand, 503. And I don't have a specific name or preference for you.

But here's what I do know and/or believe...

Fisher has a 20 year record of .525 winning percentage.
That's likely to continue if he stays.
That's not nearly good enough.
There are approx 300 various asst coaches currently working in the NFL (10 per team).
There are a whole host of successful HC's in the college ranks as possible candidates.
Other teams have successfully found coaching gems, so why can't we?
Demoff and Snead should be more than capable of conducting this effort.

So to me the choice is simple. Settle for more mediocrity through '16, or reach for the HC that can take us to the promised land.

Dude. A few weeks ago X posted a list of all the coaches since the early nineties of the Rams organization.

With the exception of Dick Vermeil b/c of retirement, no coach lasted more than 3 years. Speaking of Dick Vermeil, he had a .524 career record.

The team has been firing coaches every three years like clockwork. They've even been giving fans' their wish and firing their coaches and coordinators midseason at times. We've had interim coaches come and go.

And has that changed anything for the better? NO. So what is different this time around? What is the magic formula that will suddenly solve things now? Since Jeff Fisher's time here, the team has been competitive almost every week. We've gotten from 2, 3 win seasons to 7. Am I satisfied with going 7-9 every year, of course not. Am I satisfied that the Rams are no longer push overs? Hell yes. And that's with 2nd and 3rd string QBs.

We need stability. Enough with the firings and scapegoating coaches and players. Stay the friggin course.

 

[CodeMonkey]

I think the thing with Fisher is that he is a delegator. He is the kind of a coach that needs very good coordinators working for him. And, unfortunately for us, that isn't the case right now.

 

[RamFan503]

Now you're putting words in my mouth with pictures.

 

[den-the-coach]

Schottenheimer will be the scapegoat and I have never been an ally of Schotty more of an adversary, however, IMO he's does a nice job with Austin Davis, but after this year Fisher will have to make change to calm the masses and IMO the following assistant coaches will be given the pink slip:

Brian Schottenheimer/Offensive Coordinator....Not holding much hope for Fisher to select somebody better, in fact, I posted in a different thread it would be current Cleveland Brown QB Coach Dowell Loggains because of past associations, but maybe we'll get surprised.

Frank Cignetti/QB Coach...Really like Cignetti and actually would not feel bad if the Rams promoted him to OC, but he's never done that before and it most likely won't go over well. IMO the Rams will select a QB Coach who the OC will request.

Frank Bush/Linebackers....Just have a feeling that DC Gregg Williams will want more control and he's a former LB Coach so I predict that the Rams will bring back another Williams and Blake Williams will get his job back as Linebacker Coach in what he was originally hired for back in 2012.

There could be others, but IMO these will be the main casualties and I'm not sure the replacements will be better especially at offensive coordinator. Not sure who I would recommend, but maybe the collegiate ranks would be an opportunity or Bill Callahan who is currently in the last year of a contract and would be available and being an offensive line coach might be a good match with Fisher.