It's Kind of Telling ....

[Prime Time]

Apples and Oranges, only Noll ever had 3 losing seasons in a row, and that was when he first started, cower and Tomlin never had more than 2 in row, and Noll didn't either after 1971....

There's more than one person to blame for a team that loses season after season besides the head coach. It starts with ownership and the GM and then rolls downhill just like any business or even a sports forum.

Btw it doesn't help in terms of continuity and stability that the Rams have moved more than any other NFL franchise.

I've stated this before and I'll do so again; when Jeff Fisher and Les Snead were hired I figured they would totally reorganize the team and get us to the next level. We're now in a place where opposing coaches, players, and fans no longer see Rams on the schedule and mark it as an automatic win. We are now an unpredictable and dangerous team.

Can Fisher/Snead get us to another level where we are a perennial playoff team? I have my doubts but would love to be proven wrong. I do strongly believe though that Jeff Fisher will finish out his 5-year contract.

 

[RamFan503]

Can Fisher/Snead get us to another level where we are a perennial playoff team? I have my doubts but would love to be proven wrong. I do strongly believe though that Jeff Fisher will finish out his 5-year contract.

I think Fisher and Snead could very well get us to the point where we are at least challenging for the playoffs every year. In the playoffs? I also have my doubts. But I see this regime getting us to a point where we are restocking a few shelves rather than clearing out the pantry every 3 or 4 years. I also see them building a team that brings in a FA or two each year but mostly builds and maintains through the draft.

Despite the losing records over the past 3 years, I am more excited about this team than I have been since maybe Martz last full year.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Despite the losing records over the past 3 years, I am more excited about this team than I have been since maybe Martz last full year.

Co-sign.

 

[blue4]

Continuity. It cannot be overstated.

Continuity can breed perennial losers as well as winners. They've done a pretty good job getting the pieces into place for a winning team, especially on the defensive side of the ball. The WRs and OL I'm not sold on, but if we play smart and use Gurley and Austin wisely we have enough talent to make the playoffs. I think that is perfectly reasonable in 4 years. Another losing season is bad continuity, IMO.

 

[VegasRam]

Ya' know, the previous Rams' "management", (if you can actually call it that), GOT RID OF Kurt Fucking Warner.

Think about that for a second. And while you're thinking, tell me who you would replace Jeff Fisher with.

Sorry to repeat myself, but continuity is PARAMOUNT. Period.

And Kroenke knows this. Thank God.

Remember when everyone wanted Coughlin's head? Two Superbowls later, they don't look very bright.

Be VERY thankful for our current situation.

Very thankful.

TheRams are doing it right - fuck this many wins and that many wins - management is building a good team, with attitude and purpose.

 

[blue4]

Ya' know, the previous Rams' "management", (if you can actually call it that), GOT RID OF Kurt freaking Warner.

Think about that for a second. And while you're thinking, tell me who you would replace Jeff Fisher with.

Sorry to repeat myself, but continuity is PARAMOUNT. Period.

And Kroenke knows this. Thank God.

Remember when everyone wanted Coughlin's head? Two Superbowls later, they don't look very bright.

Be VERY thankful for our current situation.

Very thankful.

TheRams are doing it right - freak this many wins and that many wins - management is building a good team, with attitude and purpose.

Considering it took a few years before Kurt got his game together again I'd say the Rams did what they had to do. At that point. It's not like they let him go with no back up plan. It only looks bad when you look back and fast forward thru the Giants era.

I realize that this season is still young, but we're talking about a coach who's 7-8-1, 7-9 and 6-10. Discussing a minimum expectation seems prudent to me. We jettisoned a HC who went 56-36 with 4 playoff berths, I don't know why thinking of Fisher's future is controversial. Building a team with attitude and purpose doesn't mean anything without getting over .500.

 

[drasconis]

Ya' know, the previous Rams' "management", (if you can actually call it that), GOT RID OF Kurt freaking Warner.

Think about that for a second. And while you're thinking, tell me who you would replace Jeff Fisher with.

Sorry to repeat myself, but continuity is PARAMOUNT. Period.

And Kroenke knows this. Thank God.

Remember when everyone wanted Coughlin's head? Two Superbowls later, they don't look very bright.

Be VERY thankful for our current situation.

Very thankful.

TheRams are doing it right - freak this many wins and that many wins - management is building a good team, with attitude and purpose.

Wins is all it is about....so saying freak wins is ridiculous, heck that is how you determine if a team is "good".

The management that got rid of Warner was in place for 5 years (let us be clear that was Martz's call).

Continuity is paramount if you are winning, then you should stay the course....otherwise all you are doing is going down the wrong road for extra years.

Every time someone points to PIT, PATS, etc. they are assuming the continuity is the causation, but there is NO proof of that, Correlation does not mean causation....it is just as reasonable to say winning results in continuity, not vice versa.

Lets also be clear Kroenke's record as an owner is...meh....the Nuggets have made it past the first round 1 time in since he bought them, and are on their 7th coach, the avalanche haven't made the playoffs 5 of the last 7 years and have gone through 6 coaches since he bought the team (note they won SC the year he bought the team)

 

[Rmfnlt]

Warner is in the past... Martz is in the past... 2012 is behind us.... 2013 is history... 2014 is a memory...

2015... that is all I care about... in particular, 10/25/15.

Beat the Browns the way you are supposed to... then get on a run and get a winning record and - hopefully - playoffs.

If you can't achieve that goal after 4 years? You really don't deserve to retain your employment IMO.

 

[jap]

I would prefer that the Horns achieve one of the two best records in the NFC. Having a bye week during the wild card playoff week is so important for player healing & team focus. It may be too much to expect this season with all this youth and with even veteran players struggling to adapt to a new offensive scheme.

There are a few things that need to happen. We need to have Nick grow into his role well and learn to play off Gurley's performances to the max . . . as in Max Q. Our young OL needs to gel well by the 2nd half of the season and ought to start showing positive signs of coming together this very weekend. GRob needs to embrace his role as TGII's main escort and stabilize the left side of the OL while Garrett Reynolds anchors the right side until one of these young kids grows up. When solid technique and savvy of our young OL start to catch up with their youthful strength and energy, we will finally have a Battering Ram OL.

We need to see Tavon extend himself even more and really give opposing DC's migraines along with TGII. Our other main fly boys---Quickie, Kenny, Sted, and the TE's---need to fully play up to their roles help get this playoff drive moving. If the defense gets adequate rest, courtesy of our O, they ought to be disruptive enough for virtually any NFL team.

 

[LesBaker]

So...hit reset find another coach and do what the Rams have been doing for the past decade? Start over?

That'll fix it all.

Know why teams tend to remain cellar dwellers? They cycle through coaches so often the team never has time to actually build anything up. Its young players that fit a system, and once that system doesn't win by the time half those guys are closing in on 24 its onto the next coach. Next coach, next system, next group of young players. Next few seasons spinning tires with players who fit the old system and don't now while reloading with rookies and other young guys who don't have time to shine till this coach is getting booted out of office.

Its easy to pick out ineptitude in the NFL. Fisher doesn't fall into that category. Do his games even remotely resemble a Mike Singletary or Todd Haley coached football team? Does this team look even at a glance like a Scott Linehan or Steve Spagnolo run operation? Yeah I know setting the bar pretty low, but when the team on average is entering its what? 2nd-3rd, maybe on a good day 4th season in the league it isn't going to be a well oiled dominating machine.

The win now or get the hell out mentality in the NFL is a HUGE problem. You can have a guy like Chip Kelly roll in riding off the talent that a guy like Andy Reid spent more than a decade compiling and just watch him burn it to the ground, but hey he won his first couple years with the team so he must be a success.

Take a good long hard look at what Marvin Lewis is doing in Cincinnati

Joe Tait was the guy behind the mic for the Cavs for years and years, his voice is immediately recognizable. Fans and players LOVE him.

He had a signature saying when a player threw down a particularly powerful dunk.

"WHAM.....................with the right hand"

That saying, in his voice, ran through my head as I finished reading your post. You couldn't have said it any better or any more succinctly.

 

[LesBaker]

Apples and Oranges, only Noll ever had 3 losing seasons in a row, and that was when he first started, cower and Tomlin never had more than 2 in row, and Noll didn't either after 1971....

So does that mean continuity is good or bad?

seewhatIdidthere?

 

[fearsomefour]

Continuity can breed perennial losers as well as winners. They've done a pretty good job getting the pieces into place for a winning team, especially on the defensive side of the ball. The WRs and OL I'm not sold on, but if we play smart and use Gurley and Austin wisely we have enough talent to make the playoffs. I think that is perfectly reasonable in 4 years. Another losing season is bad continuity, IMO.

Most coaches are not around long enough if they are losing to have continuity.
The Rams did the route of a new guy with a new approach every 2 or 3 years. It doesn't work. I am sticking with Fisher unless the bottom falls out.

 

[fearsomefour]

Every time someone points to PIT, PATS, etc. they are assuming the continuity is the causation, but there is NO proof of that, Correlation does not mean causation....it is just as reasonable to say winning results in continuity, not vice versa.

Of course if something is working an organization would be dumb to stop doing it....see the above example in your post about the Rams.
The Steelers have been through a couple of GMs and several coaches but have been consistently competitive for years and years.
When I say continuity I am not talking about never changing some things. I am talking about having an approach and a vision for an organization. There is a reason they know how to find guys that fit their approach on D....they have developed that. It is not just all luck. A team/GM/coach has to have some success in order to build that long term continuity, but, I think it is a denial of truth to say that it does not lead, generally, to more long term success.
A coach coming in wanting to do a run heavy O, then switching to a wide open approach on O, switching from a 4/3 to a 3/4....all this does is ensure a roster turnover and a couple of rough seasons. If Fishers goes the ownership/GM needs to have enough common sense to continue with what was started....a 4/3 on D first and foremost.

 

[fearsomefour]

So...hit reset find another coach and do what the Rams have been doing for the past decade? Start over?

That'll fix it all.

Know why teams tend to remain cellar dwellers? They cycle through coaches so often the team never has time to actually build anything up. Its young players that fit a system, and once that system doesn't win by the time half those guys are closing in on 24 its onto the next coach. Next coach, next system, next group of young players. Next few seasons spinning tires with players who fit the old system and don't now while reloading with rookies and other young guys who don't have time to shine till this coach is getting booted out of office.

Its easy to pick out ineptitude in the NFL. Fisher doesn't fall into that category. Do his games even remotely resemble a Mike Singletary or Todd Haley coached football team? Does this team look even at a glance like a Scott Linehan or Steve Spagnolo run operation? Yeah I know setting the bar pretty low, but when the team on average is entering its what? 2nd-3rd, maybe on a good day 4th season in the league it isn't going to be a well oiled dominating machine.

The win now or get the hell out mentality in the NFL is a HUGE problem. You can have a guy like Chip Kelly roll in riding off the talent that a guy like Andy Reid spent more than a decade compiling and just watch him burn it to the ground, but hey he won his first couple years with the team so he must be a success.

Take a good long hard look at what Marvin Lewis is doing in Cincinnati

Marvin Lewis was given enough leash that he was allowed some subpar seasons. He has kept the team relevant. Bill Cowar is not a bad Fisher comparison. He had plenty of 8-8 seasons and was allowed to recover. Finding a hall of fame QB in Ben helped. Fisher has never had great QB talent (McNair was a QB with major holes in his game).
Some of the tendencies of this team can certainly be frustrating. But, the alternative of searching for a college guy or the NFL assistant that is the next "hot" coach does not appeal to me at all. The turnover in coaches every 2-3 years almost ensures the roster is depleted of talent because they will each bring in guys that fit their own system.
If he had to be replaced I would go with a D first coach who runs a 4-3. Because that is where our talent is. I have not heard any names that excite me.

 

[blue4]

Most coaches are not around long enough if they are losing to have continuity.

True, which is why the expectation should be to win. As you said, coaches who can't win don't usually get to keep their jobs. Last I checked our continuity coach hasn't won a dang thing. The man wins this year I'll give him all kinds of slack. But I'm not counting those chickens before they hatch. Winning against Cleveland is a good first step towards showing that the continuity we have isn't the same losing inconsistency.

 

[VegasRam]

Wins is all it is about....so saying freak wins is ridiculous, heck that is how you determine if a team is "good".

The management that got rid of Warner was in place for 5 years (let us be clear that was Martz's call).

Continuity is paramount if you are winning, then you should stay the course....otherwise all you are doing is going down the wrong road for extra years.

Every time someone points to PIT, PATS, etc. they are assuming the continuity is the causation, but there is NO proof of that, Correlation does not mean causation....it is just as reasonable to say winning results in continuity, not vice versa.

Lets also be clear Kroenke's record as an owner is...meh....the Nuggets have made it past the first round 1 time in since he bought them, and are on their 7th coach, the avalanche haven't made the playoffs 5 of the last 7 years and have gone through 6 coaches since he bought the team (note they won SC the year he bought the team)

Of course I want wins - I should have alluded to the 'win now or else" mentality. I just think it's too soon to blow-up everything Fish has built and start over just cuz he hasn't gotten over the .500 hump.

BTW, maybe the Nuggets haven't won BECAUSE they've had 7 coaches.

 

[drasconis]

So does that mean continuity is good or bad?

seewhatIdidthere?

I do not think it is either. Should we have continued with Spags/Lin? Had we given them 5 years would they have turned it around? (I am not saying that is the case, simply trying to make a point). There are those that think if we had kept Martz we would be in better shape, and there are those that thought it was clearly time for a change.

I just think that pounding fist and saying "continuity" is it, is rallying around a buzzword with no context. Continuity can be great, it can give stability and focus (think someone like Southwest and the continuity on focus on service). It can also lead to failure to keep up with innovation, slowness in reacting, and resulting in falling behind the competition (think Kmart/Sears).

I think people look for a magic formula, grab onto something they see in others, but do not realize there is difference between causation and correlation.

Maybe I am too old, and heard to many buzzwords/catchphrases in my life (in work, in school, in sports, in politics)....

 

[fearsomefour]

True, which is why the expectation should be to win. As you said, coaches who can't win don't usually get to keep their jobs. Last I checked our continuity coach hasn't won a dang thing. The man wins this year I'll give him all kinds of slack. But I'm not counting those chickens before they hatch. Winning against Cleveland is a good first step towards showing that the continuity we have isn't the same losing inconsistency.

It is foolish in my opinion to bring in a guy with no head coaching experience, a bad cap situation a depleted roster and tell him you gotta win by year 2 or you're gone....see Spags. I don't think Spags was going to win no matter what, but, you get my point. At some point there needs to be a commitment to a direction, to a vision for the team. That may take 3 years, it may take 5 years. It may be an up and down proposal like in Cincinnati or Pittsburgh. So, we have a guy with experience, there is a plan and a vision. This is year 4. Would I be patient enough (if I was in the owners chair) for another year or two if it meant building a team that could compete for 10-12 years....damn right I would.

 

[blue4]

It is foolish in my opinion to bring in a guy with no head coaching experience, a bad cap situation a depleted roster and tell him you gotta win by year 2 or you're gone....see Spags. I don't think Spags was going to win no matter what, but, you get my point. At some point there needs to be a commitment to a direction, to a vision for the team. That may take 3 years, it may take 5 years. It may be an up and down proposal like in Cincinnati or Pittsburgh. So, we have a guy with experience, there is a plan and a vision. This is year 4. Would I be patient enough (if I was in the owners chair) for another year or two if it meant building a team that could compete for 10-12 years....damn right I would.

The thing is with Fisher you've got 20 years of tape so to speak. We've a good indication of what the direction could look like. A lot like .500. So in my mind if he doesn't win this year the tiger hasn't changed his stripes.
And really what direction are we going in that wouldn't play with a new HC? We've a talented defense for him to lean on, full of young ascending talent. Nobody would get rid of Quinn, Donald, McDonald, JJ, and so on. Gurley and Mason would fit in any offense. Foles is experienced and cheaply signed for a little bit. You've got Austin. And an extra pick to find your WRs. The OL, while sloppy so far, is young and wouldn't take a lot to flesh out. The Rams of next year is a pretty soft landing for a new coach if it comes to that.

 

[LesBaker]

The thing is with Fisher you've got 20 years of tape so to speak. We've a good indication of what the direction could look like. A lot like .500. So in my mind if he doesn't win this year the tiger hasn't changed his stripes.
And really what direction are we going in that wouldn't play with a new HC? We've a talented defense for him to lean on, full of young ascending talent. Nobody would get rid of Quinn, Donald, McDonald, JJ, and so on. Gurley and Mason would fit in any offense. Foles is experienced and cheaply signed for a little bit. You've got Austin. And an extra pick to find your WRs. The OL, while sloppy so far, is young and wouldn't take a lot to flesh out. The Rams of next year is a pretty soft landing for a new coach if it comes to that.

IMO it's always unfair to look at W-L records in a vacuum. And Fisher is a very good example of why it shouldn't be viewed that way.

Look what he had to deal with and obstacles he had to overcome at various times with the Oilers/Titans. All things considered he did well IMO.

Now in STL he is putting Humpty Dumpty back together. It's on the brink.