It is my hope that this amazing draft is not a complete outlier…

[Elmgrovegnome]

I mean......there's a difference between Van Jefferson (800 yards/6 TDs in 2021 Super Bowl year) and Cam (almost singlehandedly won us games down the stretch, including a playoff game in 2020) than Bobby Evans. I thought that I pointed out that those guys actually contributed - throwing a bunch of true busts who had zero contribution to a winning team is.....not the same.

If you don't see that, I'm not sure what to tell you.

Being contributors still doesn’t make them good second round picks.

If the Rams win a SB this year or next, and Tutu has Jefferson type numbers, does that make him a good second round pick? Especially with the future, best center in the league sitting there for the taking instead?

Runningbacks like Akers can be found in later rounds. Look at Pacheco. He’s a seventh round pick and he’s better than Akers. The same goes with Jefferson. The same with Tutu.

Snead’s second round picks have never impressed me until this year with Avila. I think every Ram fan here loved that pick. That’s a long run without getting really good production from a second round pick.

 

[Kupped]

Being contributors still doesn’t make them good second round picks.

If the Rams win a SB this year or next, and Tutu has Jefferson type numbers, does that make him a good second round pick? Especially with the future, best center in the league sitting there for the taking instead?

Runningbacks like Akers can be found in later rounds. Look at Pacheco. He’s a seventh round pick and he’s better than Akers. The same goes with Jefferson. The same with Tutu.

Snead’s second round picks have never impressed me until this year with Avila. I think every Ram fan here loved that pick. That’s a long run without getting really good production from a second round pick.

Ummm… if he helps them win a Super Bowl and has a year like Jefferson did… it’s a successful pick.

Not saying it’s a great pick.

B- if we’re grading out, imo… that’s Jefferson’s numbers from 21.

Doing the Creed Humphreys thing is bullshit because you can pick any number of players from any draft and say… “they coulda had THIS guy!!!!”

There’s so much about this post…
Yeah.. you draft someone like Pacheco because you missed on CEH, for the most part, in the first round.

Counting on getting Pacheco in the 7th is silly.. but the Rams did draft Williams in the 5th.

The Rams second rounders, as someone else said, have underwhelmed.

Very few in Snead McVay years have been flat-out busts.

 

[WestCoastRam]

Interested to know, if anyone thinks the Rams could be drafting better? What team over a 5 year period would you want them to draft like?

Please remove their 1st round picks.

 

[Kupped]

Btw… here’s a thought exercise for y’all Creed truthers…

Who do you think the Chiefs would rather have…

Tutu & Shelton?
Or Creed and Marquez Valdes-Scantling?

Factor in the money you’d have to spend if you went with Tutu & Shelton.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Ummm… if he helps them win a Super Bowl and has a year like Jefferson did… it’s a successful pick.

Not saying it’s a great pick.

B- if we’re grading out, imo… that’s Jefferson’s numbers from 21.

Doing the Creed Humphreys thing is bullshit because you can pick any number of players from any draft and say… “they coulda had THIS guy!!!!”

There’s so much about this post…
Yeah.. you draft someone like Pacheco because you missed on CEH, for the most part, in the first round.

Counting on getting Pacheco in the 7th is silly.. but the Rams did draft Williams in the 5th.

The Rams second rounders, as someone else said, have underwhelmed.

Very few in Snead McVay years have been flat-out busts.

I'm not calling them busts. Don't put words in my mouth to support your argument. I'm saying they weren't very good picks. One or two good years from a second round pick isn't a big success.
The Tutu/Humphrey thing isn't BS either. The Rams needed an upgrade at center and over half the forum was screaming for Snead to pick him. It was an obviously better choice than a 5'-8" 150 lb receiver. You can disagree if you want, but I won't be asking you for any draft pick advice in the future.

As for the part about Pacheco- He was a seventh round pick. He wasn't chosen to replace CEH. Veach was just doing what a lot of teams do. They pick a RB in mid to late rounds in most drafts, despite having a back on the roster that starts. The Rams did the same with Kyren Williams. They had Akers.

Maybe you liked the second round picks. Maybe you liked every pick Snead ever made. I didn't. I didn't like any of Snead's second round picks until this year. It isn't hindsight either. I say every year what I think of his picks. I have taken a fair amount of heat for it here in some years. But, it doesn't change my opinion.

 

[OnceARam]

One does not draft well by accident.

 

[Allen2McVay]

One does not draft well by accident.

DAMN!!!
Les Snead does not look good before his morning coffee.

 

[Kupped]

I'm not calling them busts. Don't put words in my mouth to support your argument. I'm saying they weren't very good picks. One or two good years from a second round pick isn't a big success.
The Tutu/Humphrey thing isn't BS either. The Rams needed an upgrade at center and over half the forum was screaming for Snead to pick him. It was an obviously better choice than a 5'-8" 150 lb receiver. You can disagree if you want, but I won't be asking you for any draft pick advice in the future.

As for the part about Pacheco- He was a seventh round pick. He wasn't chosen to replace CEH. Veach was just doing what a lot of teams do. They pick a RB in mid to late rounds in most drafts, despite having a back on the roster that starts. The Rams did the same with Kyren Williams. They had Akers.

Maybe you liked the second round picks. Maybe you liked every pick Snead ever made. I didn't. I didn't like any of Snead's second round picks until this year. It isn't hindsight either. I say every year what I think of his picks. I have taken a fair amount of heat for it here in some years. But, it doesn't change my opinion.

Like I asked.. what do you think the Chiefs season would look like with Tutu and Shelton rather than MVS and Creed?

Tutu has been an important part of their offense this year.

Teams have different philosophies when it comes to roster building and the Rams, obviously, thought they had solutions to the center position on their roster.

I'm not arguing that Creed isn't better, that'd be dumb. I'm saying teams have different priorities at different times when it comes to the draft.

I'm confused by your logic about Akers.. the Rams did, basically, exactly what the Chiefs did.. but the Rams did it wrong?

I don't think all of the picks were great.. *in hindsight*.. but there was nothing about Akers or Jefferson or Rapp that bothered me at the time of their selections. All made sense. I did like Akers and nothing about what happened to him before he blew out his Achilles made me think it was anything but a great pick.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Like I asked.. what do you think the Chiefs season would look like with Tutu and Shelton rather than MVS and Creed?

Tutu has been an important part of their offense this year.

Teams have different philosophies when it comes to roster building and the Rams, obviously, thought they had solutions to the center position on their roster.

I'm not arguing that Creed isn't better, that'd be dumb. I'm saying teams have different priorities at different times when it comes to the draft.

I'm confused by your logic about Akers.. the Rams did, basically, exactly what the Chiefs did.. but the Rams did it wrong?

I don't think all of the picks were great.. *in hindsight*.. but there was nothing about Akers or Jefferson or Rapp that bothered me at the time of their selections. All made sense. I did like Akers and nothing about what happened to him before he blew out his Achilles made me think it was anything but a great pick.

Is Tutu any better than the receivers that the Chiefs had at the time? Was he better than what the Rams had at the time he was drafted? I don’t think so. Plus it took them so long to get him in the field, for whatever reason. His size is still a bit of a hindrance, especially in blocking and catch radius.

The Chiefs with Shelton instead of Humphrey? Well Shelton is an average center imo. Humphrey is the best in the league. I’m sure there would have been a drop off. That’s like speculating what the Rams would be like without Dotson right now. It’s hard to say but they look much better with him than without. I’d ask Mahomes if he’d rather have a different center.

I don’t follow what you mean about the Chiefs and Akers stuff. I didn’t say the Chiefs should or shouldn’t have taken CEH. However, unless it’s a Gurley, or Barkley level talent, taking a runningback in the first two rounds seems like a waste. Say they draft another Gurley. Do they have him for 4-5 years then let him go because they don’t want to pay a RB?

I’ve told you before. I didn’t like taking Rapp in round 2. That’s early for a strong safety. They can be had later. I didn’t like the Akers pick. I didn’t think round 2 was good value. I thought Van was drafted too high also. I didn’t use hindsight on any of them. That’s how I felt. But anfter the draft is over I always figure I’d give them a chance because what else can you do? With the exception of Tutu. His size really made that pick feel like a huge reach.

For the record, I’m not claiming to be right on my evaluation of every pick. I liked the Noteboom pick and I ended up being one of his biggest critics. I’ll admit when I’m wrong. However, I am not one to just get giddy over every new Ram that gets drafted, like some ppl.
For the most part, after round four I am not too critical of any of the picks.

 

[Kupped]

Is Tutu any better than the receivers that the Chiefs had at the time? Was he better than what the Rams had at the time he was drafted? I don’t think so. Plus it took them so long to get him in the field, for whatever reason. His size is still a bit of a hindrance, especially in blocking and catch radius.

The Chiefs with Shelton instead of Humphrey? Well Shelton is an average center imo. Humphrey is the best in the league. I’m sure there would have been a drop off. That’s like speculating what the Rams would be like without Dotson right now. It’s hard to say but they look much better with him than without. I’d ask Mahomes if he’d rather have a different center.

I don’t follow what you mean about the Chiefs and Akers stuff. I didn’t say the Chiefs should or shouldn’t have taken CEH. However, unless it’s a Gurley, or Barkley level talent, taking a runningback in the first two rounds seems like a waste. Say they draft another Gurley. Do they have him for 4-5 years then let him go because they don’t want to pay a RB?

I’ve told you before. I didn’t like taking Rapp in round 2. That’s early for a strong safety. They can be had later. I didn’t like the Akers pick. I didn’t think round 2 was good value. I thought Van was drafted too high also. I didn’t use hindsight on any of them. That’s how I felt. But anfter the draft is over I always figure I’d give them a chance because what else can you do? With the exception of Tutu. His size really made that pick feel like a huge reach.

For the record, I’m not claiming to be right on my evaluation of every pick. I liked the Noteboom pick and I ended up being one of his biggest critics. I’ll admit when I’m wrong. However, I am not one to just get giddy over every new Ram that gets drafted, like some ppl.
For the most part, after round four I am not too critical of any of the picks.

"At the time"?
I'm sorry, but drafts are about much, much more than "at the time" for me. If that's the standard for the draft evaluations, then it's a different conversation than the one I'm having, so that just means we're not talking about the same thing. Which is fine.


I'm guessing you haven't watched the Chiefs this season, because you don't understand my question, it seems. Lack of dependable deep targets has cost the Chiefs at least two games.

I was thrown by the Pacheco comment initially.. because the situation was basically the same as the situation the Rams were in. And they did the same thing. Just showing that, philosophically.. they did the same thing as the Chiefs, essentially.

I understand you don't like those picks.. what I'm saying is there's no definitive, "that was a bad pick" argument for the choices made at the time. I'm not saying you don't have good points, I'm saying you're dismissing the arguments of different perspectives on values of those players. There were no "red flags" with those picks, at all.

I'm not giddy about every Ram pick either.. but when I'm looking at their drafting, I'm looking at whether there seems to be a consistent approach and a thought process behind it that makes sense. For me, it does.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

"At the time"?
I'm sorry, but drafts are about much, much more than "at the time" for me. If that's the standard for the draft evaluations, then it's a different conversation than the one I'm having, so that just means we're not talking about the same thing. Which is fine.


I'm guessing you haven't watched the Chiefs this season, because you don't understand my question, it seems. Lack of dependable deep targets has cost the Chiefs at least two games.

I was thrown by the Pacheco comment initially.. because the situation was basically the same as the situation the Rams were in. And they did the same thing. Just showing that, philosophically.. they did the same thing as the Chiefs, essentially.

I understand you don't like those picks.. what I'm saying is there's no definitive, "that was a bad pick" argument for the choices made at the time. I'm not saying you don't have good points, I'm saying you're dismissing the arguments of different perspectives on values of those players. There were no "red flags" with those picks, at all.

I'm not giddy about every Ram pick either.. but when I'm looking at their drafting, I'm looking at whether there seems to be a consistent approach and a thought process behind it that makes sense. For me, it does.

If you are only going by what happened there or four years later then I’d say the picks weren’t that good. It’s no different.

Tutu is finally contributing in year three as a number three receiver. He wasn’t a starter last season until Kupp got injured. Even now he’s had to be schemed open because he’s easily knocked off of routes.

Akers had some good games but never really got playing well until halfway through the season in his healthy years.

Jefferson had a decent two years but his body catching, or lack of natural pass catching hands, and his inability to make contested catches was still an issue.

Rapp was a solid contributor in run support in his first season but he didn’t fit the dual safety role that the Rams used, where the SE and FS are interchangeable.

All of this stuff was predictable when they made the picks. So I don’t really understand what the process was for any of those second round picks. Tutu was supposedly an override by McVay. So that’s not exactly any type of process.

Snead has found some good players here and there through the years. Gaines, JJ, Kupp, AD. I’d love to see him get some more consistently good drafts where he gets more than one or two players that they want to resign after their fourth year.

 

[WestCoastRam]

Snead has found some good players here and there through the years. Gaines, JJ, Kupp, AD. I’d love to see him get some more consistently good drafts where he gets more than one or two players that they want to resign after their fourth year.

If he did that he'd be having the top 10 draft in the NFL every year.

I... guess that's reasonable?

 

[WestCoastRam]

All of this stuff was predictable when they made the picks. So I don’t really understand what the process was for any of those second round picks.

Maybe... hear me out... that's why they were 2nd round picks.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

If he did that he'd be having the top 10 draft in the NFL every year.

I... guess that's reasonable?

Welll, some teams do seem to draft well with more consistency than others. I’d like Snead to be in that small group.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Maybe... hear me out... that's why they were 2nd round picks.

Yes but in some of those drafts they traded back and passed up better players, at least imo.

You can get good picks in the second third and fourth rounds. Snead has done that all in one draft. I think in most drafts a GM should be able to get a good starter in round two at least. I know there are some drafts that don’t really have much talent, but in most I think those players can be found.

And I’m not thinking it’s realistic to get a foundational draft every year, but hitting on a few more of those early picks would be nice.

They had no intention of resigning Van or Cam. I’ve got my doubts about them resigning Tutu. They let Rapp walk, Long was a third round pick. Etc…. It would be great to get a few more keepers, players worthy of a second contract I think they did that with the 23 draft. Maybe even in the 22’
Draft.

Can you think of any of the Rams second or third round picks that went onto another team and excelled?

 

[WestCoastRam]

Yes but in some of those drafts they traded back and passed up better players, at least imo.

You can get good picks in the second third and fourth rounds. Snead has done that all in one draft. I think in most drafts a GM should be able to get a good starter in round two at least. I know there are some drafts that don’t really have much talent, but in most I think those players can be found.

And I’m not thinking it’s realistic to get a foundational draft every year, but hitting on a few more of those early picks would be nice.

They had no intention of resigning Van or Cam. I’ve got my doubts about them resigning Tutu. They let Rapp walk, Long was a third round pick. Etc…. It would be great to get a few more keepers, players worthy of a second contract I think they did that with the 23 draft. Maybe even in the 22’
Draft.

Can you think of any of the Rams second or third round picks that went onto another team and excelled?

While we're at this... can someone give me 5 million dollars?

 

[JimY53]

The Rams second rounders, as someone else said, have underwhelmed.

Very few in Snead McVay years have been flat-out busts.

Agree on both counts. Second-rounders who are average are different than busts. But averaged is not what
you want from premium picks. You want good players at least some of the time.

 

[FrantikRam]

I'm not calling them busts. Don't put words in my mouth to support your argument. I'm saying they weren't very good picks. One or two good years from a second round pick isn't a big success.
The Tutu/Humphrey thing isn't BS either. The Rams needed an upgrade at center and over half the forum was screaming for Snead to pick him. It was an obviously better choice than a 5'-8" 150 lb receiver. You can disagree if you want, but I won't be asking you for any draft pick advice in the future.

As for the part about Pacheco- He was a seventh round pick. He wasn't chosen to replace CEH. Veach was just doing what a lot of teams do. They pick a RB in mid to late rounds in most drafts, despite having a back on the roster that starts. The Rams did the same with Kyren Williams. They had Akers.

Maybe you liked the second round picks. Maybe you liked every pick Snead ever made. I didn't. I didn't like any of Snead's second round picks until this year. It isn't hindsight either. I say every year what I think of his picks. I have taken a fair amount of heat for it here in some years. But, it doesn't change my opinion.

When you win a Super Bowl, any draft pick that contributed to that Super Bowl was a good pick. Hopkins can never play in an NFL game again and that pick was still more than worth it for the plays he made in the Super Bowl.

The list of teams that haven't won it all is still pretty substantial:

Jags/Texans/Titans
Browns/Bengals
Bills
Chargers
Cardinals
Falcons/Panthers
Lions/Vikings


Brian Allen was our starting C for the Super Bowl season - in the Super Bowl we had nearly historic pass protection. There is no way to guarantee that Humphrey does better when he wasn't here and there is no way of knowing whether Humphrey would do what McVay needs.

It would be fine to question it..........if we didn't win a Super Bowl with a different starting center

And now Tutu is playing well, which includes drawing several deep PIs (which his stats won't show).

Continuing to hold on to that decision when we won the Super Bowl is just irrational at this point.

 

[Kupped]

If you are only going by what happened there or four years later then I’d say the picks weren’t that good. It’s no different.

Tutu is finally contributing in year three as a number three receiver. He wasn’t a starter last season until Kupp got injured. Even now he’s had to be schemed open because he’s easily knocked off of routes.

Akers had some good games but never really got playing well until halfway through the season in his healthy years.

Jefferson had a decent two years but his body catching, or lack of natural pass catching hands, and his inability to make contested catches was still an issue.

Rapp was a solid contributor in run support in his first season but he didn’t fit the dual safety role that the Rams used, where the SE and FS are interchangeable.

All of this stuff was predictable when they made the picks. So I don’t really understand what the process was for any of those second round picks. Tutu was supposedly an override by McVay. So that’s not exactly any type of process.

Snead has found some good players here and there through the years. Gaines, JJ, Kupp, AD. I’d love to see him get some more consistently good drafts where he gets more than one or two players that they want to resign after their fourth year.

No, I’m saying what is bolded.

I’m saying no one drafts with only what’s going on with their rosters that year as a factor.

The rest of the stuff isn’t process, imo… it’s “I made better picks,” which is fine!

I do have issues with some of this. Akers KICKED ASS the second half of his rookie year and was widely expected to have a massive sophomore season before the injury.

Jefferson wasn’t perfect, sure.. but, boy… he played a needed role in 21.

Tutu is doing fine. Especially in his role. Drawing big PIs and making plays. Robinson is earning more time, that’s not a bad thing.

Again… all underwhelming, agreed.

 

[Kupped]

Agree on both counts. Second-rounders who are average are different than busts. But averaged is not what
you want from premium picks. You want good players at least some of the time.

I don’t disagree.
I just don’t see, especially with Akers, where there was some kind of draft process error.

Stuff happens,