Is Sam Bradford an Upgrade Over Nick Foles in Philly? --NBC Sports

[Stranger]

Russell Wilson only threw 20 TD passes just last year and they should have won the last Super Bowl.

The important thing is to score 'em. Not how you score 'em.

Those Rams teams of the 70's were a thing of beauty, and while I haven't gone bak to look at the stats, I gotta believe that the majority of TD's were via run.

 

[RamBill]

The Philadelphia Eagles traded for quarterback Sam Bradford this offseason. What are realistic expectations for Bradford in 2015? Can he replicate Nick Foles’ 2013 success? Watch as Adam Lefkoe and Bleacher Report NFL Analyst Chris Simms discuss Sam Bradford. Simms does expect Bradford to have a big year…over 4,000 yards and 30 TD’s.

Watch Simms Talk Bradford 2015

 

[LesBaker]

How many of those teams were built upon the concept of building a strong running game and defense? Seattle & Cincinnati did it last year. San Francisco did it with Kaepernick throwing just one more TD (21) the year before.

Memphis I'm not saying it is an absolute, as I said it a more often than not thing.

20 tds from the passing game is REALLY low and it's not the prescription to win very often. They will need more out of that position, and I think that's why they got Foles. It's a different game now, and you have to have more than that to have a chance to go all the way unless it's the rare situation like SEA.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Memphis I'm not saying it is an absolute, as I said it a more often than not thing.

20 tds from the passing game is REALLY low and it's not the prescription to win very often. They will need more out of that position, and I think that's why they got Foles. It's a different game now, and you have to have more than that to have a chance to go all the way unless it's the rare situation like SEA.

But, it's not very often that teams go with the gameplan of building a top notch defense and a strong running game nowadays either which would skew things. And the rare situation like Seattle almost happened with San Francisco, too. They almost beat the Ravens in that Super Bowl. And these are examples within the last few years.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Russell Wilson only threw 20 TD passes just last year and they should have won the last Super Bowl.

The important thing is to score 'em. Not how you score 'em.

Not to mention Flacco and the Ravens, who haven't put up 4,000 yds passing once since he took over, yet have been the model of success in the AFC.

Flacco's numbers(Team record)
2008
14 TD 12 INT 2,971 yds
(11-5 Conference playoffs)

2009
21 TD 12 INT 3,613 yds
(9-7 Divisional playoffs)

2010
25 TD 10 INT 3,622 yds
(12-4 Divisional playoffs)


2011
20 TD 12 INT 3,610 yds
(12-4 Conference playoffs)


2012
22 TD 10 INT 3,817 yds
(10-6 Super Bowl champion)

2013
19 TD 22 INT 3,912 yds
(8-8)


2014
27 TD 12 INT 3,986 yds
(10-6 Divisional playoffs)



I see the Ravens as more of the model the Rams can be, rather than Seattle. Strong defense/ST and a strong running game with a QB who isn't flashy, can manage the game, not make bad decisions but still make some big plays here and there, spreading it around, using play action and the deep ball.

BTW, Joe Flacco has now been in the league for 7 seasons and has not yet missed a single start.

 

[LesBaker]

But, it's not very often that teams go with the gameplan of building a top notch defense and a strong running game nowadays either which would skew things. And the rare situation like Seattle almost happened with San Francisco, too. They almost beat the Ravens in that Super Bowl. And these are examples within the last few years.

Yes but those are only two examples and there are very few others. I hate using the "won the SB" thing as a bar, because that makes it to absolute.

Look at the teams in the playoffs. Most of them are getting good production out of the passing game. Not all are elite passing game teams, but other than SF and SEA in recent years, meaning 10-15, not many teams with less than 20 TD's from the QB position are making the playoffs. Yeah there are some, but that type of production limits your chances too much for me.

Your point about not many teams trying to build a strong run game and top defense is true, and I think because of the rules that's the hard way to do it. Defenses are at a disadvantage, especially against the passing game. It's just more difficult to do things that way.

 

[LesBaker]

Not to mention Flacco and the Ravens, who haven't put up 4,000 yds passing once since he took over, yet have been the model of success in the AFC.

Flacco's numbers(Team record)
2008
14 TD 12 INT 2,971 yds
(11-5 Conference playoffs)

2009
21 TD 12 INT 3,613 yds
(9-7 Divisional playoffs)

2010
25 TD 10 INT 3,622 yds
(12-4 Divisional playoffs)


2011
20 TD 12 INT 3,610 yds
(12-4 Conference playoffs)


2012
22 TD 10 INT 3,817 yds
(10-6 Super Bowl champion)

2013
19 TD 22 INT 3,912 yds
(8-8)


2014
27 TD 12 INT 3,986 yds
(10-6 Divisional playoffs)



I see the Ravens as more of the model the Rams can be, rather than Seattle. Strong defense/ST and a strong running game with a QB who isn't flashy, can manage the game, not make bad decisions but still make some big plays here and there, spreading it around, using play action and the deep ball.

BTW, Joe Flacco has now been in the league for 7 seasons and has not yet missed a single start.

The Brow hasn't missed a game? Wow. That's pretty rare of a thing after 7 years for a guy who lacks mobility. Or has mobility..........

I'm starting to think those mobile guys get hurt more.

By the way

 

[Memphis Ram]

Yes but those are only two examples and there are very few others. I hate using the "won the SB" thing as a bar, because that makes it to absolute.

Look at the teams in the playoffs. Most of them are getting good production out of the passing game. Not all are elite passing game teams, but other than SF and SEA in recent years, meaning 10-15, not many teams with less than 20 TD's from the QB position are making the playoffs. Yeah there are some, but that type of production limits your chances too much for me.

Your point about not many teams trying to build a strong run game and top defense is true, and I think because of the rules that's the hard way to do it. Defenses are at a disadvantage, especially against the passing game. It's just more difficult to do things that way.

I guess I see what you are saying, but IMO, a team can get good production out of the passing game without meeting that TD pass criteria. Again, it doesn't matter how they get into the endzone, just that they get there. I'd surely hope that we would think any less of this team's chances if they are successful pounding the rock in the redzone.

And I guess for me what most of the other teams have done the past 10-15 years means little when most teams aren't following the same gameplan. And especially, when I can see that in the past 3 seasons, the 49ers, Seahawks, Bengals, Panthers, Redskins, Vikings, and apparently the Ravens made the playoffs while either failing or barely meeting that TD pass criteria. Tells me that such isn't as rare an occurrence.

And also within this short 3 year period, playoff teams like the Lions and Texans had starting QBs that bested the 20 TD pass number by only 2 (22 TDs).

 

[LesBaker]

I guess I see what you are saying, but IMO, a team can get good production out of the passing game without meeting that TD pass criteria. Again, it doesn't matter how they get into the endzone, just that they get there. I'd surely hope that we would think any less of this team's chances if they are successful pounding the rock in the redzone.

And I guess for me what most of the other teams have done the past 10-15 years means little when most teams aren't following the same gameplan. And especially, when I can see that in the past 3 seasons, the 49ers, Seahawks, Bengals, Panthers, Redskins, Vikings, and apparently the Ravens made the playoffs while either failing or barely meeting that TD pass criteria. Tells me that such isn't as rare an occurrence.

And also within this short 3 year period, playoff teams like the Lions and Texans had starting QBs that bested the 20 TD pass number by only 2 (22 TDs).

In three seasons 36 teams go to the playoffs. If you count the times a team got that 18-20 TD's you say there is a pretty short list of teams in the post season and many of the times it happens it's an abberation and the QB usually throws for more than that.

I would like to see 28-30 TD passes. This team is built to throw and threaten defesnes with the passing attack with the WRs and TEs on the roster. They went and got Foles. Let's see some fireworks!!!

 

[Memphis Ram]

In three seasons 36 teams go to the playoffs. If you count the times a team got that 18-20 TD's you say there is a pretty short list of teams in the post season and many of the times it happens it's an abberation and the QB usually throws for more than that.

I would like to see 28-30 TD passes. This team is built to throw and threaten defesnes with the passing attack with the WRs and TEs on the roster. They went and got Foles. Let's see some fireworks!!!

Well it's true that 7 out of 36 isn't a very high number (9 if one included the Lions & Texans who barely missed the mark). But, it's more than I took you to mean.

That said, teams with franchise QBs make up the vast majority of the list. Brady, Luck, Manning, & Rodgers account for 12 by themselves. Is Foles a franchise QB?

And is a team with roadgraders along the Oline and loaded at RB really built to throw the football?

 

[snackdaddy]

There are many different formulas teams use to be a consistent winner. If you have an elite quarterback you're going to pass more. If you have an elite running back you're going to run more. If you have an elite defense you're going to ask your offense to take care of the ball. You have to play to your team's strengths. You have to know your identity. And you don't want to be a team who wants to run but keeps passing.

Give Fisher credit. He knows what his identity is and he knows what he wants his team's identity to be. He's acquiring players who fit his identity. He's not going into the season trying to get a feel for this team. He knows what he wants to do. Now its just a matter of executing.

 

[Stranger]

Give Fisher credit. He knows what his identity

70's Rams football it back !!!

 

[LesBaker]

Well it's true that 7 out of 36 isn't a very high number (9 if one included the Lions & Texans who barely missed the mark). But, it's more than I took you to mean.

That said, teams with franchise QBs make up the vast majority of the list. Brady, Luck, Manning, & Rodgers account for 12 by themselves. Is Foles a franchise QB?

And is a team with roadgraders along the Oline and loaded at RB really built to throw the football?

I know people point to the OL and say "we are going to see a lot of running" but look at what the Rams have done to add passing weapons. They have spent a TON of money and draft picks on guys who catch the ball, and that includes the RB they just drafted. Then they got Foles, who is a bit of a gunslinger.

The Ram under Fisher have NEVER been ground and pound despite the lazy media labels and they will be even less so next year IMO.

Of course I could be wrong, I'm due LOL.

 

[dieterbrock]

Russell Wilson only threw 20 TD passes just last year and they should have won the last Super Bowl.

The important thing is to score 'em. Not how you score 'em.

Well he did also run for 6 td so accounted for 26 total

 

[-X-]

Score more points than you allow and you'll win lots of games.

 

[CodeMonkey]

I know people point to the OL and say "we are going to see a lot of running" but look at what the Rams have done to add passing weapons. They have spent a TON of money and draft picks on guys who catch the ball, and that includes the RB they just drafted. Then they got Foles, who is a bit of a gunslinger.

The Ram under Fisher have NEVER been ground and pound despite the lazy media labels and they will be even less so next year IMO.

Of course I could be wrong, I'm due LOL.

That's kinda what I was thinking. I don't know that they will be rushing more or less so but in addition to Gurley and the so called road graders drafted for the gaping black hole of an Oline, they've also added players like Cook, Tavon, etc.

The idea of ground and pound football is a recent development for the snisher led Rams. I will give you that we may actually instead be passing quite a lot despite the turn of events lately.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Well he did also run for 6 td so accounted for 26 total

Sure. But we were discussing passing TDs.

 

[dieterbrock]

Sure. But we were discussing passing TDs.

I understand that, I just think that when discussing Wilson its qb production. He accounted for 800 yards and 6 td on the ground. If you compare Foles to that he should account for 26 td as well.

 

[Ram65]

Well it's true that 7 out of 36 isn't a very high number (9 if one included the Lions & Texans who barely missed the mark). But, it's more than I took you to mean.

That said, teams with franchise QBs make up the vast majority of the list. Brady, Luck, Manning, & Rodgers account for 12 by themselves. Is Foles a franchise QB?

And is a team with roadgraders along the Oline and loaded at RB really built to throw the football?

Foles is probably not a franchise QB. Someone stated that there aren't many franchise QB coming out of college. The spread offense doesn't help college QBs learn things needed for the NFL. In the last 5-6 years of college drafts looks like Luck is the only franchise QB. You still have to play to your strengths.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I understand that, I just think that when discussing Wilson its qb production. He accounted for 800 yards and 6 td on the ground. If you compare Foles to that he should account for 26 td as well.

It's QB production for all of them. RG III had 7. Newton had 5 & 6 rushing TDs. Kaepernick had 4 & 5 rushing TDs. Dalton had 4 rushing TDs. Flacco had 3 rushing TDs. Stafford & Ponder had 2.

 

[dieterbrock]

It's QB production for all of them. RG III had 7. Newton had 5 & 6 rushing TDs. Kaepernick had 4 & 5 rushing TDs. Dalton had 4 rushing TDs. Flacco had 3 rushing TDs. Stafford & Ponder had 2.

Back on topic, the subject was if Foles only threw for 20 td. And the counter was Wilson threw for "only" 20. Not an apples to apples conversation unless we expect Foles to account for 6 rushing td also. Hill and Davis combined for 20 passing td and I would agree that if Foles could only accomplish that number it would be very disappointing