Is it time to start a complete shuffle of the Rams O-line?

[shaunpinney]

PFF released Sam Diego's D Line top grades like 10 minutes after the game ended last night. How is that possible? How comprehensive can this really be if the evaluations are done that quickly?

PFF have a magic hat.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

This o line has given Keenum plenty of opportunity to pass. Even for all his faults, Keenum is putting a Rams receiver on course for over 1000 yards in a season for the first time in something like 8 or 9 years.

The run game is an issue that won't really be solved until opposing D's are forced to account for the pass. The solution to that is a topic for another thread (there are plenty out there already) but it's not the o line's fault.

Edit: Just re-read the above paragraph and what I meant to say is that it's not the o line's fault that opposing D's can stack the box. Clearly the o line is contributing to the poor run game by not blocking well enough but there's a limit to what they can achieve when outnumbered.

I read that by average of pass to sack that the Rams OLine is on of the worst at pass blocking

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Time to get a new O line coach. You is grossly overrated. Atlanta has a good line now that he is gone. GET SOMEONE ELSE, FISHER!!!!

 

[Rmfnlt]

I dunno if we should (reshuffle) or not... but the mere thought of it depresses the hell outta me.

How many times have we had to do this?

 

[SteveBrown]

Marcus McNeill

However, you're making an apples to oranges comparison. Marcus McNeill played for Tommy Tuberville, not Gus Malzahn.

Excellent thanks for saying that....I am lighter on GRob now...a bit

 

[jrry32]

Excellent thanks for saying that....I am lighter on GRob now...a bit

No need to be. He's gotta shit or get off the pot.

 

[BonifayRam]

My opinion currently is trending that a new OL coach looks to be in order. Paul Boudreau time here as the Rams top OL coach appears to have come & went. PB with his new drafted talent pool of OL'ers most entirely since 2014 have not responded to his coaching. PB should have been able to get much better production from this 2016 OL cadre. Rams have invested & utilized one ultra high 1st, two 2nds, one 3rd, one 4th, one 5th, one 6th & one 7th round selections. Only one of 8 having any NFL success & that's Rob Havenstein @ ORT. What we have seen thus far in 2016 Indicates to me that there is a core issue here not having to do with talent available.

We do have a starter currently injured & out that being ORG Cody Wichmann. CW replacement @ ORG Jamon Brown will most probable get his first start in 2016 in Detroit. JB did rotate with Cody Wichmann in the first game though. So we already have 1/5 of a shuffle now. I have posted for yrs that we need continuity most of all in Boudreau's OL. I am not for any major shuffling myself. I have no issue with replacing a single OL'er if he is not getting the job done.

The OLT is the most problematic position going into the 6th week, but also the most demanding OL post. The rest of the OL is not overly effective in run blocking but performing decent enough @ pass protection. The only real bona fide OL'er who could play & start @ OLT & might be an improvement other than Greg Robinson is starting OLG Rodger Saffold. In truth Saffold has shown to this point to be weak in his power run blocking game since returning back from his two reconstructed shoulders.

If Robinson continues to trend poor the next two games before the bye & Cody Wichmann is full healed & ready to resume his starting job back @ ORG then I would suggest that Saffold move a few feet left into the OLT post. I would not insert Robinson in the OLG post but bench him for a short period of time. Robinson has not been benched & it just might get him to focus better. I would insert Jamon Brown back in his natural left side & @ OLG. See below:

LT-Rodger Saffold 6-5/322 28-7
LG-Jamon Brown 6-4/323 23-2
OC-Tim Barnes 6-4/310 28-6
RG-Cody Wichmann 6-5/320 24-2
RT-Rob Havenstein 6-/324 24-2

Saffold began this season as a starting Tackle in OTA's, Training Camp & the entire pre season & did a very good job from the exterior. Saffold best & most complete season came when he was a 16 game starter @ LEFT Tackle post. Saffold as a highly decorated 4 yr. starter @ Left Tackle in college. If Saffold performs generally better than Robinson (Its my belief he will play better) then we will have fixed our most problematic OL post for the last 9 games of this 2016 season. This is not unfair to Saffold, he was paid 8.3 million last season for only finishing 4 of the 16 games & was IR'd. Saffold is being paid close to 6 million this season so if he gets a more critical job on Sunday that requires a technically refined pass protector? Saffold is the answer & is being paid well enough for a starting OLT.

The lost of Saffold @ OLG will not weaken this OL. Snead has now assembled a good number of young OL'ers who have played OLG (Brown/Wichmann/Donnal & Rhaney) all have some action in regular season games @ OLG. In addition the Rams could resign veteran OG Garrett Reynolds who was released due to an injury settlement as the regular 2016 season began. So there is no problem here.

 

[Boston Ram]

You have to keep the oline as is, maybe replace a player here or there but no mass overhaul at this junction.

I was never a fan of the Grob pick but I thought during the preseason he may have had turned the corner. I guess I was wrong because he is not good at all, unfortunately I dont think Donnal is any better. The only other option would be Saffold at LT, but then who replaces him, Brown? Another guy who seemed to take a step back since last year?

When Kush was cut I said, its hard to get all complainy about the back end of your roster, but Kush seemed like a guy who was easily the 6th best lineman heading into the season....how he got cut is beyond me and it does look like they could use him right about now.

 

[Ballhawk]

I have to wonder if the use of more zone blocking is the problem. I don't think that they have it down to where they can execute it consistently and it has ruined what was becoming a good O line.

 

[Angry Ram]

a lot of people said he would be a better guard day 1. But the Rams coaches are too prideful and stubborn to see it that way. It will probably end up costing Fisher his job.

Umm, that's exactly what they did. Then Jake Long hurt his ACL vs. Indy and Greg's been at LT ever since.

So you could either let him develop there, or scramble to find a good LT (which isn't easy anymore).

 

[den-the-coach]

For the record Rob Havenstein & Andrew Donnal cannot play LT, they are RT only and I loved Orlando Pace and liked Yo Murphy, but I'm not sure I want to turn to Pace Murphy at this time.

 

[Adi]

Greg Robinson's replacement cost is crippling knowing we could have had our choice of any of 8 pro bowlers...CRIPPLING! However, I believe he would be a good OG

I agree I think he played some guard in college. I cant stress it enough, taking an o lineman that high in the draft almost never works out. Orlando Pace was an exception to the rule but since then we have not had luck with lineman in the first round.

 

[-X-]

No. The OL does what it does this year. We reshuffle it after the season. Greg sticks at LT until the end of this year. If he doesn't improve, he moves to OG.

The OL has been pretty solid in pass pro.(despite PFF's contentions)

But starting a rookie UDFA at LT? What has Murphy shown to give people that sort of faith in him? I ask that seriously. I didn't pay any attention to him in the preseason.

Agree. And Murphy has done nothing to earn a start. In fact, the OP said it was shocking he made the roster (at least that's what I think he said).

You WANT a cohesive unit that depends on each other. There’s an accountability factor in there. That sort of "you can count on me - you can trust me." thing that comes with time and with shared pain and sacrifice. That’s what builds great offensive lines. The type of line that (as Snead describes) 'plays as a basketball team'. Whether they’re the most talented line, individually, is really not relevant. 5 average players who play in total concert are better than 5 individually great players who can't communicate effectively and have no real cohesion. Boudreau coming under fire here is knee-jerk reactionary stuff that uninformed and frustrated fans tend to throw out. Shake the cage and maybe things will change kinda stuff. To suggest that a fan would have a better plan or better insight than someone as decorated and respected as Paul Boudreau is, in short, laughable. I mention this, because OP has a follow-up article blasting him (http://www.downtownrams.com/single-...x-Man-responsible-for-the-LA-Rams-O-Line-Woes)

The problem here is the change in practice rules. Boudreau had this to say to Greg Bedard of Sports Illustrated.

"I don't think it's what we've been used to. I think the hardest thing I see is the way we have to practice now because of the rules that are put on our coaching staffs. I know when Alex (Gibbs) came into the league and I came into the league, it was all about your pad level, staying down. How do you keep your pad level down? You practice in pads. And the rules and the way the collective bargaining has been with what the owners agreed to, it's put a lot of stress on line coaches, offense and defense. I think you have, by the third or fourth preseason game, you look at your tape and you're still playing too high.

If you don't practice in pads and you're always in "underwear" and you can't go against the defensive line but once or twice a week in pads, you're going to be behind. In the 1980s and '90s, you came out of training camp, you were ready to play on day one. Now, by the third or fourth game, you can tell that your guys are still not there. That's what I see, and it's by the rules of the game."​

This group is still young and learning to play together as a unit. Most with one or two years of NFL experience (with the exception of Saffold and Barnes). They're also called upon to execute some pretty complex blocking schemes that have been highly regarded by other coaches and analysts in the league last year. That stuff takes time; and, as Boudreau explained above, coaches are being hamstrung with regard to how they get these guys prepared. And again, these are some young and relatively experienced guys he's working with on a structured timetable with restrictive rules.

Boudreau goes on to explain how the game changing in college has an effect:

When we got into the league, the biggest jump for a player as an offensive lineman was from his rookie season to his second season. Now, you don't see the kid until April. From January until April, you can't talk to him, you can't touch him. He's behind the curve. When we go out scouting, it's an advantage for a guy, like at the Iowas and Stanfords, the Notre Dames, Alabamas, Wisconsin, they play an NFL style. It's nothing against the read option. I've coached wishbone guys, I've coached veer guys. It's my job to get them up to speed, but if I can't because of the CBA, at the end of the day, that owner still wants to win a Super Bowl. How do you get those guys ready? It's hard. They put you in a bind.
​

Talk to any average NFL fan, and you'll find every one of them complaining about their O-line.
Some of them understand the complexities of the game. Others simply say they suck. Others still, think they know better.

Please.

 

[Corbin]

Just something off the top of my head... how about we start Greg Robinson at QB and Case Keenum at LT! Think about it for a second before you say im bat shit crazy... eachothers failures is what the strengths of the other position needs to excel at!
Think about it... I'm going back to bed now...

 

[-X-]

Just something off the top of my head... how about we start Greg Robinson at QB and Case Keenum at LT! Think about it for a second before you say im bat crap crazy... eachothers failures is what the strengths of the other position needs to excel at!
Think about it... I'm going back to bed now...

G'night John Boy.

 

[Rams43]

I'm no big fan of this CBA, either.

The practice rules for healthy twenty somethings seems ridiculously over restrictive.

However...

All the other OL coaches have to deal with the same nonsense as coach Boo. So why do they seem to be doing a better job of it?

 

[-X-]

All the other OL coaches have to deal with the same nonsense as coach Boo. So why do they seem to be doing a better job of it?

The Seahawks' line is ranked dead last (first place team)
The Vikings' line is ranked 30th (first place team)

Maybe ranking individual players on a unit isn't the way to go about evaluating an entire unit. If the runner isn't getting his yards, blame the O-line. If the QB is doing poorly, blame the O-line. If the runner is doing well and the QB isn't, blame one aspect of the O-line. If the QB is doing well and the runner isn't, blame the other aspect. Blame, blame, blame, blame, blame. Maybe it's just competitive sports and teams lose games. As it stands, the Rams are in the top third of the league in wins, and a 2nd place team (could be first if Seattle loses again). But no, let's just throw some blame around anyway. It's fun. PFF, for all of its usefulness, has turned everyone into a professional analyst. Only problem is, 90% of them aren't qualified.

 

[Force16X]

Lewan is rated the #1 LT in Pro Football Focus

regardless of whether grob is a bust or not, OBVIOUSLY Lewan is not a bust. bad drafting will haunt a team.

 

[Memento]

I actually liked Lewan as the best LT...but I liked Greg too....just a little less... I remember someone in here said that Lewan is a bad character dude...did some silly stuff...something with his roommate...told a girl to leave him alone...something...

Lewan's roommate (Michigan's kicker at the time) raped a girl. Lewan threatened to rape her himself if she told anyone. A teammate who overheard him told the AD, and Lewan got off with a slap on the wrist. The kicker was expelled. Not to mention that he beat an Ohio State fan to unconsciousness.

All in all, I don't care if he's the best left tackle according to PFF (which I take with a grain of salt). I don't want scum like that on my team.

 

[tavian]

Nice thoughts Pinney.

not sure if our scheme has changed

Have not noticed much zone blocking this year,just power schemes.

I think he should stay at LT and I remember LeCharles Bentley saying that he shouldn't be moved inside to guard and both he and Brandon Thorn have been quoted saying that the "potential is scary with him."

I wished the rams had hired on LeCharles Bentley to serve as a mentor for Robinson.
In the same way as they hired Singletary to mentor Ogletree

but I really don't think shuffling the line is going to solve the problems.

Shuffling would be a train wreck.JMO.