Is Cody Wichmann the heir apparent to Rodger Saffold?

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So Ram

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He doesn't. My only memory of him last year was getting run the hell over. He has a long way to go, only makes the squad on future hopes, not current abilities.

---How does the coaching staff not see that last season ??? We all saw how Wichmann played , & draft nex & fans question it as well. I could see Donnel getting the nod at RT ,but at R & L guard ??
I believe the moves to start A. Donnel & his golden hair over Wichmann cost The Rams at least on game .
 

ArkyRamsFan

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Great points, but I did post that Saffold would start if healthy, but I'm not sure that happens and unlike the past I don't believe that Saffold is that much better than the alternatives. I'm not as confident in Donnal like you are, IMO, Williams showcased more, but maybe after a year of strength and conditioning Donnal will improve.

One of the major reasons they drafted Donnal was his versatility, but IMO, he was not very good at LG last year and if he does make the team, his future is at RT and not much else and again IMHO.

den,
I've noticed from past threads that you have never really been very high on A. Donnel. If I recall you were saying this right after the Rams drafted him and even before TC last year.

What is it that concerns you about this player and how did you arrive at your conclusions?

(Heh....I will say that you have been consistent about your eval of this guy as you haven't wavered a bit concerning him.)

~ArkyRamsFan~
 

BonifayRam

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............My opinion is that Saffold is the best lineman on the team, regardless of position and that Reynolds is his capable back up. You seem to be saying that doesn't matter because he cant stay healthy, to which the only logical answer is that this is a new season and he isn't hurt yet.

Afternoon Dog, Do you mean this Saffold who is not hurt yet? Just going back 5 years....

*On Oct 16, 2011, Saffold was forced from game against the Packers with an ankle left fibula injury.
*On Nov 13, 2011, Saffold was forced from game against the Browns with a head injury (concussion), & did not return.
*On Nov 18, 2011, Saffold suffered a "significant" pectoral tear injury & placed on injured reserve with a torn pectoral, ending his season. Saffold was only able to finish 6 games as a starter in 2011.

*2012- Spent all of the first 7 months of 2012 on physically unable & could not be cleared to resume football activities. This was due to 2012 torn pectoral surgery.
*First regular season game Saffold was carted off the field in Sunday's game with a neck injury. Spent the night in the hospital.
*Exited Sunday's Week 2 contest with a first-quarter ACL knee injury.
* It was wk 11 before Saffold finished his first game as a starter. He missed 6 games & missed most of three others. His last injury in 2012 was on Dec 10th 2012, Saffold injured his back & was unable to finish the game.

*2013- Saffold dislocated his left shoulder in 2013 preseason opener, he will go on to miss the entire 2013 preseason games.
*Saffold was carted off the field in the second quarter of Sunday's Week 2 Sept 15th game against the Falcons with a knee injury.
* Saffold knee remained unhealthy & was unable to start again until the first of November missing 7 starts.

*2014- Raiders sign RS to $42.5 million ($15.75 million guaranteed) contract then VOID due to damaged shoulder. Signs with damaged body to Rams contract for $31.7 million deal that includes $19.5 million guaranteed. Over 10 mil less due to health concerns.
*First Pre season game injured shoulder "stinger." missed the rest of the games & 2 other pre season games.
*Last pre season game injured right ankle forced from game.
*Regular season left Sunday's Week 1 opener against the Vikings with a neck injury did not return.
*Exited Week 8 against the Chiefs with a shoulder injury, shoulder injury is to the same shoulder that caused his failed physical with the Raiders.
*Saffold had left-shoulder surgery to repair a torn left labrum @ conclusion of 2014 season.

*2015- limited to practice all of OTA's & early TC due to being unhealthy.
*Injured shoulder in 1st pre season first series out for remaining pre season.
*Finished only 4 games as starter. injured shoulder had surgery to repair a torn Right labrum & placed on the injured reserve.


In his last five seasons he has suffered 15 injuries. He has only been able to finish 42 games as a starter out of 80 games. Had 3 major surgeries...( both shoulders & pectoral tear). He has been on he IR twice. After all the above & now the accumulative back to back torn & surgically repaired labrum's on both shoulders within 10 months all in one year (2015) ...So this is the Rams best OL'er?
 

…..

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---How does the coaching staff not see that last season ??? We all saw how Wichmann played , & draft nex & fans question it as well. I could see Donnel getting the nod at RT ,but at R & L guard ??
I believe the moves to start A. Donnel & his golden hair over Wichmann cost The Rams at least on game .

I agree.

I could be wrong but I thought they were both pressed into duty by injuries to others. Donnell, a natural Tackle, stood out as a weakness and was relegated to the bench quickly. (or as soon as someone else was able to step in and stop the bleeding) He had the benefit of pre season practices and was considered ahead of Wichmann because wasn't Wichmann limited in pre season and off to a slow start working with the team?
 

…..

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Afternoon Dog, Do you mean this Saffold who is not hurt yet? Just going back 5 years....

*On Oct 16, 2011, Saffold was forced from game against the Packers with an ankle left fibula injury.
*On Nov 13, 2011, Saffold was forced from game against the Browns with a head injury (concussion), & did not return.
*On Nov 18, 2011, Saffold suffered a "significant" pectoral tear injury & placed on injured reserve with a torn pectoral, ending his season. Saffold was only able to finish 6 games as a starter in 2011.

*2012- Spent all of the first 7 months of 2012 on physically unable & could not be cleared to resume football activities. This was due to 2012 torn pectoral surgery.
*First regular season game Saffold was carted off the field in Sunday's game with a neck injury. Spent the night in the hospital.
*Exited Sunday's Week 2 contest with a first-quarter ACL knee injury.
* It was wk 11 before Saffold finished his first game as a starter. He missed 6 games & missed most of three others. His last injury in 2012 was on Dec 10th 2012, Saffold injured his back & was unable to finish the game.

*2013- Saffold dislocated his left shoulder in 2013 preseason opener, he will go on to miss the entire 2013 preseason games.
*Saffold was carted off the field in the second quarter of Sunday's Week 2 Sept 15th game against the Falcons with a knee injury.
* Saffold knee remained unhealthy & was unable to start again until the first of November missing 7 starts.

*2014- Raiders sign RS to $42.5 million ($15.75 million guaranteed) contract then VOID due to damaged shoulder. Signs with damaged body to Rams contract for $31.7 million deal that includes $19.5 million guaranteed. Over 10 mil less due to health concerns.
*First Pre season game injured shoulder "stinger." missed the rest of the games & 2 other pre season games.
*Last pre season game injured right ankle forced from game.
*Regular season left Sunday's Week 1 opener against the Vikings with a neck injury did not return.
*Exited Week 8 against the Chiefs with a shoulder injury, shoulder injury is to the same shoulder that caused his failed physical with the Raiders.
*Saffold had left-shoulder surgery to repair a torn left labrum @ conclusion of 2014 season.

*2015- limited to practice all of OTA's & early TC due to being unhealthy.
*Injured shoulder in 1st pre season first series out for remaining pre season.
*Finished only 4 games as starter. injured shoulder had surgery to repair a torn Right labrum & placed on the injured reserve.


In his last five seasons he has suffered 15 injuries. He has only been able to finish 42 games as a starter out of 80 games. Had 3 major surgeries...( both shoulders & pectoral tear). He has been on he IR twice. After all the above & now the accumulative back to back torn & surgically repaired labrum's on both shoulders within 10 months all in one year (2015) ...So this is the Rams best OL'er?


Well....yes, that's the player I was talking about lol

but you forgot this....

*2016- Trending with his career stats, hoping to be in the starting lineup for 52% of the time, as long as that 52% happens in the first 8.2 games.
Thank goodness we have Reynolds as his......BACKUP!!! .:pillowfight:


boy this thread is sure to resurface if he gets hurt again lol
 

den-the-coach

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den,
I've noticed from past threads that you have never really been very high on A. Donnel. If I recall you were saying this right after the Rams drafted him and even before TC last year.



~ArkyRamsFan~

I thought he was a reach based on production. I understand the Rams think very highly of Kirk Ferentz and his son Brian on how they coach up the offensive linemen at Iowa, but I did get see him play some games being that I watch quite a bit of the Big Ten and out of all the picks, Donnal was my least favorite one.

He had an injury and although they claimed he was extremely versatile, IMO, he is a RT only and I would be fine with that, but they liked Donnal because he could play multiple positions, however, he did nothing to dispel my feelings because he started a game at LG and was not very good at all, however, did come back starting another game against the Ravens at RT and was much better before his injury.

I believe that Darrell Williams and Isiah Battle offer far more upside than Donnal, but I will reserve judgment for preseason although he had to rehab some maybe a year of NFL strength & conditioning will make him better.
 

hotanez

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I thought he was a reach based on production. I understand the Rams think very highly of Kirk Ferentz and his son Brian on how they coach up the offensive linemen at Iowa, but I did get see him play some games being that I watch quite a bit of the Big Ten and out of all the picks, Donnal was my least favorite one.

He had an injury and although they claimed he was extremely versatile, IMO, he is a RT only and I would be fine with that, but they liked Donnal because he could play multiple positions, however, he did nothing to dispel my feelings because he started a game at LG and was not very good at all, however, did come back starting another game against the Ravens at RT and was much better before his injury.

I believe that Darrell Williams and Isiah Battle offer far more upside than Donnal, but I will reserve judgment for preseason although he had to rehab some maybe a year of NFL strength & conditioning will make him better.
I agree 100%
 

BonifayRam

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Well....yes, that's the player I was talking about lol

but you forgot this....

*2016- Trending with his career stats, hoping to be in the starting lineup for 52% of the time, as long as that 52% happens in the first 8.2 games.
Thank goodness we have Reynolds as his......BACKUP!!! .:pillowfight:


boy this thread is sure to resurface if he gets hurt again lol

No I would sure agree with you but you just have a ton of hope in the tank on Saffold where I have lost all of mine. Yes I would agree with you too that Saffold when healthy might be our best OL'er. Havenstein sure seemed to be moving in the right direction as a rookie but so did Saffold his rookie season @ OLT. Saffold has not looked good to me as of late (last two seasons). I know what Boudreau is doing here with Saffold back in @ OLG. Don't agree with it but I know what he is trying to accomplish here.

The GRob sage & Saffold saga on the left side just irks :confused: me. If GRob was to go down or continues not to improve then the OLT post is Saffold's with Reynolds moving in to OLG post. You won't loose a step with this Boudreau plan. Then there's Jamon brown who also move back in @ OLG if Saffold was to move into OLT. Keeping Reynolds as the 6th game day OL'er.

The best I have seen Saffold play was when he came back after a long injury lay off late in 2013. Saffold returned for game 12 & started 4 games @ ORG & he looked like an all pro. That's before the two back to back shoulder reconstruction surgeries.
 

bubbaramfan

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While Saffold may be a better LG than Reynolds, GR still did a very good job the last 5 games. Rams should NOT interrupt the continuity that the OL has accumulated. Where GR has it over Saffold, is his on field coaching. He made GRob a better LT when playing next to him, Barnes game improved when GR was at LG as Bonifay pointed out. If the Rams start Saffold they throw out five games of continuity and start over. And start over again when Saffold gets hurt. If the Rams do start Saffold over Reynolds, I will be on the "replace coach Boo" bandwagon.
 

Rams43

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We can all agree that the late '13 healthy Saffold was playing at a Pro Bowl level, can't we?

Well, both of his shoulders have now been reportedly repaired. Good as new, maybe even better.

So I can certainly understand Boudreau's strategy with Saffold. I mean, it would be foolish not to give Saffold his shot, don't you think?

In my perfect world scenario I would have a confident GRob not requiring his hand held anymore. So I would insert Brown (assuming he has a great camp) at LG and insert Saffold at RG.

Voila! A really good OL from left to right and one that would only get better and better as they learn to play together.

And one with some quality depth for injury insurance.

We'll get a much better read as camp and preseason games unfold.
 

DaveFan'51

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I'll need to see more before I can agree with you about Reynolds. Your post makes a lot of assumptions about who settled who and helped who with regards to last season.

My opinion is that Saffold is the best lineman on the team, regardless of position and that Reynolds is his capable back up. You seem to be saying that doesn't matter because he cant stay healthy, to which the only logical answer is that this is a new season and he isn't hurt yet.

Haventstein
Brown/Wichmann
Barnes
Saffold
Robinson

That will be our starting line up. Reynolds has huge value in his versatility as a swing backup, and will be the equivalent of the NBA's 6th man. Battle should unseat Donnel as reserve ORT and in fact, its already listed that way on the official depth chart.
It's going to be a Fun Pre-Season to watch this situation shake out!:D
 

BonifayRam

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While Saffold may be a better LG than Reynolds, GR still did a very good job the last 5 games. Rams should NOT interrupt the continuity that the OL has accumulated. Where GR has it over Saffold, is his on field coaching. He made GRob a better LT when playing next to him, Barnes game improved when GR was at LG as Bonifay pointed out. If the Rams start Saffold they throw out five games of continuity and start over. And start over again when Saffold gets hurt. If the Rams do start Saffold over Reynolds, I will be on the "replace coach Boo" bandwagon.

Great Point!

Continuity issue! If your a Ram Fan who believes in OL continuity & thinks that Continuity is one of the main goal & objectives in 2016 in the OL & also one big OL element missing for over a decade .......then you should never want Saffold named as your starter early in the season.

It would seem that most of our members just prefer that the best five OL'ers will start ( which has merit) thus including Saffold would of course be a main element over the last five season that has help with a lack of Continuity......
 

StevenG-BR

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Honestly, I don't think guys like Robinson and Saffold are guaranteed anything this year. They'll have to earn it in camp.

I'd like to see Reynolds and Brown at guard, with Wichmann fighting Reynolds for the starting job (and maybe winning).

As for Saffold, I want to see him battling Robinson for the left tackle job. Robinson was BAD last season. He needs some competition. Unless he improved drastically (very possible), I think Saffold could beat him for the job. There's no way Saffold wouldn't be an improvement over the 2015 Robinson. Might as well give them both a fair shot.

There's enough young talent on the line that no spot should be guaranteed. Except maybe Havenstein at RT.
 

bubbaramfan

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Rams OL will NEVER develop into a cohesive unit until they quit shuffling and shifting and settle on their five starters and then let them play. The OL played ABOVE AVERAGE the last five games of last season, GRob LT, Renoylds LG, Barnes C, Wichmann RG, Havenstien RT. Five games ain't much, but it is something to build on. Keep Saffold as the first man off the bench. If you start him he's just going to get hurt, and that screws up the continuity they already have building. Let Brown spell Wichmann.

Of course none of that is going to happen, someone is going to get hurt and probably go on IR. That's been the Rams trend for the OL the last ten years. I would bet everything I own that the Rams starting 5 OL the 1st game of the season will be different than anyone has predicted in this thread.
 

DickersonGurley

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Robinson won't be pushed by Williams. Williams by all accounts may not make the team if Battle did ANYTHING of note this offseason. Also IF Robinson is unable to ever grasp the Tackle position, he becomes a dominant guard. People are down on him, but the kid NEVER played a real LT snap at Auburn. He's like a Freshman in College Learning a Entirely new game. This year will tell the the tale. Hopefully he picks it up after working with Bentley and plays like he can.

Brown is also legit. He'll be really good. First year coming from different offense. This year he will be really strong for us.

I think we are set up really good. I'm hoping someone switches to center, because Barnes is average at best. Some of you guys like to praise him, but he's not a great run blocker. He is the weakest run blocker on our line. He the weak link.

IF Robinson moves back to guard, he's the starter . Period. Battle hopefully is ready and plays guard, Brown goes next to Havenstein.

Saffold can go.He is made of glass and hasn't played well in a while
 

blackbart

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Yeah at the Qb's expense. Foles played scared after that hit he took from Clay Matthews !! He took a couple of them. Reynolds did end up settling down & is a very solid run blocker. His pass blocking is what is in question.
Andrew Donnel was a different story last season. How does he start over Wichmann at any point ??
FWIW that Matthews hit came from the left side where he cam untouched.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/10/clay-matthews-nick-foles-mega-hit-green-bay-packers-video
 

BonifayRam

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FWIW that Matthews hit came from the left side where he cam untouched.
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/10/clay-matthews-nick-foles-mega-hit-green-bay-packers-video
Game five-Against the Green Bay Packers. Who were the starting left side OL'ers in that game with the Packers? The starting left side OL for that game was Robinson & Saffold. Saffold was no longer starting on the right side by Game five. Just like woofwoofmo said soooo well in the below post.
I'm going to come to the defense of Coach "Boo". He's not juggling guys and playing them out of their comfort zones for giggles and grins, he's doing it for one reason and one reason only, to put a veteran presence next to the LT, who understands not only his own assignment but can tell GRob what he's supposed to do. That's why Saffold was at LG, then why Reynolds became the LG, to nursemaid our LT. Having Brown & GRob next to each other last season just wasn't working and to take the pressure off Brown, he was moved to the right side & Reynolds put at LG. There were simply too many blown assignments. Until GRob proves he's capable of understanding his assignments, it's going to continue to be a veteran at LG.
So to continue on with what woofwoofmo said .... before game five Paul Boudreau removed Jamon Brown form starting left OG after four good starts there. The reason for rookie Jamon Brown being moved out of his natural left side was NOT because Brown was playing badly in fact Brown up to that time game four was playing very well for a rookie starter!

As we all know NOW this move was to an attempt to resolve a major ongoing disaster with blown assignments from GRob who has an ongoing brain cloud. The fix was in & Rodger Saffold was moved back in to his 2014 starting post next to GRob.

Back to the play shown above where Foles was hit.... it shows THREE Packers ( 2 LB'ers & a DL'er) arriving basically at the same time to assassinate the Rams QB. The all pro Clay Matthews was lined up @ the LOS in plain view to the entire world with the exception to GRob. Clay was on the outside left shoulder of GRob with active camouflage. For whatever reason :headexplosion:the left side of the OL did not make an adjustment thus GRob took the inside DL'er & ignored left this unknown pass pusher to blitz directly into Nick. Most starting OLT's in the NFL really have no ideal who Clay Matthews is & its fully understandable:palm:.

I have no ideal if Saffold was still playing & Saffold failed to provide GRob the needed clue that Clay was drooling foam down the front of his jersey when this murdering was taking place on Foles or if Andrew Donnal had replaced the soon to be out for the season on IR Saffold yet. maybe some else has this information but GRob let the murder take place.

Game 5 was the first game of the season that Boudreau activated Andrew Donnal to back up our newly flipped OLG Saffold. By the end of the first half Donnal was the Rams starting OLG in place of Saffold. Reynolds, at this early time in the season was not considered a left side back up. It was Andrew Donnal who Boudreau had worked a lot & groomed to be the OLG reserve behind Brown (then Saffold) & in fact did maintain this role from week 5 thru week 8.

Reynolds assignment @ this time was primarily to back up the new starting ORG rookies Brown & rookie ORT Havenstein. Reynolds first official start in 2015 occurred after the Rams bye in wk. 6 & Reynolds started @ OLG in week 7 . Garrett Reynolds started his first NFL game @ left OG. Reynolds did have to return to start & finish a few other games @ ORT. On or about time we got a chance to see Rhaney & Wichmann @ both OLG & ORG. Rhaney's short time performance @ both OG posts made Donnal look like an all pro! It was also at this time Boudreau discovered that he had found a G O L D nugget with Cody Wichmann. Cody went on to finish his rookie campaign in playing in 12 games with 7 starts & two other games where he finished the game as the starter in the lineup.
---How does the coaching staff not see that last season ??? We all saw how Wichmann played , & draft nex & fans question it as well. I could see Donnel getting the nod at RT ,but at R & L guard ?? I believe the moves to start A. Donnel & his golden hair over Wichmann cost The Rams at least on game .
The rookie Andrew Donnal dressed for 5 NFL games total. Donnal finished two games with the first unit week #5 @ OLG & week #8 @ ORT. Donnal looked much better @ ORT than OLG in these two games. Donnal started 2 games his rookie season one @ OLG on wk # 9 & @ ORT on wk#11. Week 9 game was the game that Donnal really looked bad. It was wk.#11 when Donnal suffered a knee injury & never got on the field again in 2015. I should mentioned that Donnal did see a ton of action in TC & the first half of pre season @ ORG post.

The fact that the Rams selected the best ORT in the 2015 draft who made most of the all rookies teams when the season concluded did not help Andrew Donnal either. Just plain back luck for him. It now forced Donnal into a back up @ ORT. If your reserve for Boudreau then its mandatory that you be able to play more than one post or your gone. I would sum up Donnal's rookies season as very disappointing. Donnal may not have a bright Ram future at this time but if he can remain healthy he will be a decent NFL ORT in time. He must add power & strength to his game for that to come true, he has the smarts!

Rookie OL'er Wichmann & Donnal's paths did not cross much at all in 2015. Cody Wichmann was basically injured from the very first OTA's until the 3rd pre season game. Cody was vastly behind Donnal in his training since he missed all of TC & half of pre season. Cody never worked either of the OT posts as Donnal did nor was he used @ OLG much. I do not see that Cody Wichmann or Andrew Donnal are in competition with each other in 2016.
 
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LACHAMP46

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I like line talk....Seems a bunch of us do...

BTW, anybody else hoping that Wichmann can shine at C?
That would be awesome....but I doubt he gets the experience there in the future...That Kush guy is coming to smoke someone for their position....

Time to take the training wheels off GRob, isn't it? Past time, actually.
Actually, all in good time...Greg is still one of the youngest guys on the line...pretty cool huh? I also believe, what I've seen of Battle, his old college team, and just the look of this man, he's a starting lineman...Greg will be fine...he's a determined lil guy.

I , like Boni, have been questioning Paul Boudreau's effectiveness in coaching the OL the past few years.
Coach Boo probably had to stand up in the war room and shout...but he's finally gotten some quality clay to mold.
I don't believe that Saffold is that much better than the alternatives.
just look at the tape....I'm shocked you would say this den...boni has gotten to you...when healthy, Saffold is CLEARLY our best lineman...Maybe that changes in '16. But as far as assignments, plain power, and just gettin the job done, I'd take Saff

What is it that concerns you about this player and how did you arrive at your conclusions?
Donnal looked good to me from the Iowa games I watched. I was looking at Reif...And noticed Donnal...Positional type of blocker...but his lack of power & strength is alarming. He looked terrible at guard...And looked just as bad at tackle too...Not only is he a weak player, his lack of quickness kills him at tackle. I can see no way he'd improve in ONE YEAR, that could allow him to make the team. There is NO WAY I'd want him replacing Reynolds as the primary backup/swing tackle in 2017. It's funny, I'd like to watch some film with anyone that says they can see a player in Andrew Donnal at this time.

Do you mean this Saffold who is not hurt yet? Just going back 5 years....
Don't wish him to the cornfield like McGee....please Boni. I'm sure the So. Cali weather will agree with Rodger Saffold...He'll remain healthy...at least for 14 games. LOLOLOLOL!!!!:mrburnsevil:
 

den-the-coach

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just look at the tape....I'm shocked you would say this den...boni has gotten to you...when healthy, Saffold is CLEARLY our best lineman...Maybe that changes in '16. But as far as assignments, plain power, and just getting the job done, I'd take Saff

Not sure what tape you watched in 2015 because he was active for like five minutes. Reynolds played quite a bit and IMO, he was an upgrade because, well, quite frankly, he had a larger body of work. Saffold played 5 games in 2015 and I don't think he played four quarters in those five games and when was the last time he started and finished a game? I think Warren Harding was in the White House.

Overall IMO, the only thing you can rely on with Rodger Saffold is his unreliability. So unless he showcases the ability to get through training camp healthy, I will expect someone else to be manning Left Guard come the eve of the 12th of September