In Ray Ray i trust!

[LesBaker]

jjab360 queried:
Dunbar isn't bigger or faster than Ogletree or Armstrong, so what's your point?

Dunbar is far superior to Ogletree and Armstrong when it comes to taking on blockers and stopping the run IMO.

And this is after HOW many games? I'm not even suggesting Ray Ray should start - au contraire mon frere. But think about how the LBs are used in this defense. Often times there is only one LB on the field as it is. So if, let's just say, RR is on the field as a LB instead of CB TJ, what's the rub? In many cases, we may be better suited to have a LB that plays about as fast as a safety on the field instead of TJ. Personally, I like Ray Ray's tackling ability better and he can cover a TE AND step up in to take on a RB. In cases where we only have one LB on the field at any given time, I think we all ought to get used to the idea that his name is likely to be Ogletree - not Dunbar.

I'm certain it's a violation of the boards policies to use French in a football post.

And I think we are Ok at LB too right now. With Dunbar out for 4 games we get a good look see anyway.

 

[albefree69]

RamFan503 with a dubious look:
And this is after HOW many games? I'm not even suggesting Ray Ray should start - au contraire mon frere. But think about how the LBs are used in this defense. Often times there is only one LB on the field as it is. So if, let's just say, RR is on the field as a LB instead of CB TJ, what's the rub? In many cases, we may be better suited to have a LB that plays about as fast as a safety on the field instead of TJ. Personally, I like Ray Ray's tackling ability better and he can cover a TE AND step up in to take on a RB. In cases where we only have one LB on the field at any given time, I think we all ought to get used to the idea that his name is likely to be Ogletree - not Dunbar.

Not many games that's true but the knock on Ogletree in college was that he shied away from taking on blockers and wasn't very stout against the run. Couple that with what I've heard people say (check out Rambills account of the game) and that's the conclusion I come up with.

As for when there is only one LB on the field, I believe that only happens in passing situations and Ogletree is much better at pass defense that any of our other LBs. So I agree with you that it would probably be Ogletree.

BTW, I think Ray Ray should start instead of WW. As you might know, I'm not a fan of WW at this stage of his career. I think Ray Ray would be an upgrade. Keep WW in reserve in case of injury.

 

[DR RAM]

RamFan503 with a dubious look:
And this is after HOW many games? I'm not even suggesting Ray Ray should start - au contraire mon frere. But think about how the LBs are used in this defense. Often times there is only one LB on the field as it is. So if, let's just say, RR is on the field as a LB instead of CB TJ, what's the rub? In many cases, we may be better suited to have a LB that plays about as fast as a safety on the field instead of TJ. Personally, I like Ray Ray's tackling ability better and he can cover a TE AND step up in to take on a RB. In cases where we only have one LB on the field at any given time, I think we all ought to get used to the idea that his name is likely to be Ogletree - not Dunbar.

Not many games that's true but the knock on Ogletree in college was that he shied away from taking on blockers and wasn't very stout against the run. Couple that with what I've heard people say (check out Rambills account of the game) and that's the conclusion I come up with.

As far when there is only one LB on the field, I believe that only happens in passing situations and Ogletree is much better at pass defense that any of our other LBs. So I agree with you that it would probably be Ogletree.

BTW, I think Ray Ray should start instead of WW. As you might know, I'm not a fan of WW at this stage of his career. I think Ray Ray would be an upgrade. Keep WW in reserve in case of injury.

2 starting rookies in a complicated defense, both of them playing new positions in the NFL????? JL would go crazy. I don't think that is the answer for this year.

 

[DR RAM]

RamFan503 with a dubious look:
And this is after HOW many games? I'm not even suggesting Ray Ray should start - au contraire mon frere. But think about how the LBs are used in this defense. Often times there is only one LB on the field as it is. So if, let's just say, RR is on the field as a LB instead of CB TJ, what's the rub? In many cases, we may be better suited to have a LB that plays about as fast as a safety on the field instead of TJ. Personally, I like Ray Ray's tackling ability better and he can cover a TE AND step up in to take on a RB. In cases where we only have one LB on the field at any given time, I think we all ought to get used to the idea that his name is likely to be Ogletree - not Dunbar.

Not many games that's true but the knock on Ogletree in college was that he shied away from taking on blockers and wasn't very stout against the run. Couple that with what I've heard people say (check out Rambills account of the game) and that's the conclusion I come up with.

As far when there is only one LB on the field, I believe that only happens in passing situations and Ogletree is much better at pass defense that any of our other LBs. So I agree with you that it would probably be Ogletree.

BTW, I think Ray Ray should start instead of WW. As you might know, I'm not a fan of WW at this stage of his career. I think Ray Ray would be an upgrade. Keep WW in reserve in case of injury.

Do you really want two rookie linebackers starting?

 

[albefree69]

RamFan503 with a dubious look:
And this is after HOW many games? I'm not even suggesting Ray Ray should start - au contraire mon frere. But think about how the LBs are used in this defense. Often times there is only one LB on the field as it is. So if, let's just say, RR is on the field as a LB instead of CB TJ, what's the rub? In many cases, we may be better suited to have a LB that plays about as fast as a safety on the field instead of TJ. Personally, I like Ray Ray's tackling ability better and he can cover a TE AND step up in to take on a RB. In cases where we only have one LB on the field at any given time, I think we all ought to get used to the idea that his name is likely to be Ogletree - not Dunbar.

Not many games that's true but the knock on Ogletree in college was that he shied away from taking on blockers and wasn't very stout against the run. Couple that with what I've heard people say (check out Rambills account of the game) and that's the conclusion I come up with.

As far when there is only one LB on the field, I believe that only happens in passing situations and Ogletree is much better at pass defense than any of our other LBs. So I agree with you that it would probably be Ogletree.

BTW, I think Ray Ray should start instead of WW. As you might know, I'm not a fan of WW at this stage of his career. I think Ray Ray would be an upgrade. Keep WW in reserve in case of injury.

2 starting rookies in a complicated defense, both of them playing new positions in the NFL????? JL would go crazy. I don't think that is the answer for this year.

 

[RamFan503]

I'm certain it's a violation of the boards policies to use French in a football post.

And I think we are Ok at LB too right now. With Dunbar out for 4 games we get a good look see anyway.

Holy CRAP!!! What was I thinking? Well in my defense, at least I didn't start a soccer thread. :tooth:

 

[DR RAM]

RamFan503 with a dubious look:
And this is after HOW many games? I'm not even suggesting Ray Ray should start - au contraire mon frere. But think about how the LBs are used in this defense. Often times there is only one LB on the field as it is. So if, let's just say, RR is on the field as a LB instead of CB TJ, what's the rub? In many cases, we may be better suited to have a LB that plays about as fast as a safety on the field instead of TJ. Personally, I like Ray Ray's tackling ability better and he can cover a TE AND step up in to take on a RB. In cases where we only have one LB on the field at any given time, I think we all ought to get used to the idea that his name is likely to be Ogletree - not Dunbar.

Not many games that's true but the knock on Ogletree in college was that he shied away from taking on blockers and wasn't very stout against the run. Couple that with what I've heard people say (check out Rambills account of the game) and that's the conclusion I come up with.

As far when there is only one LB on the field, I believe that only happens in passing situations and Ogletree is much better at pass defense than any of our other LBs. So I agree with you that it would probably be Ogletree.

BTW, I think Ray Ray should start instead of WW. As you might know, I'm not a fan of WW at this stage of his career. I think Ray Ray would be an upgrade. Keep WW in reserve in case of injury.

2 starting rookies in a complicated defense, both of them playing new positions in the NFL????? JL would go crazy. I don't think that is the answer for this year.

So you are NOT talking to me :lmao:

 

[RamFan503]

RamFan503 with a dubious look:
And this is after HOW many games? I'm not even suggesting Ray Ray should start - au contraire mon frere. But think about how the LBs are used in this defense. Often times there is only one LB on the field as it is. So if, let's just say, RR is on the field as a LB instead of CB TJ, what's the rub? In many cases, we may be better suited to have a LB that plays about as fast as a safety on the field instead of TJ. Personally, I like Ray Ray's tackling ability better and he can cover a TE AND step up in to take on a RB. In cases where we only have one LB on the field at any given time, I think we all ought to get used to the idea that his name is likely to be Ogletree - not Dunbar.

Not many games that's true but the knock on Ogletree in college was that he shied away from taking on blockers and wasn't very stout against the run. Couple that with what I've heard people say (check out Rambills account of the game) and that's the conclusion I come up with.

As far when there is only one LB on the field, I believe that only happens in passing situations and Ogletree is much better at pass defense that any of our other LBs. So I agree with you that it would probably be Ogletree.

BTW, I think Ray Ray should start instead of WW. As you might know, I'm not a fan of WW at this stage of his career. I think Ray Ray would be an upgrade. Keep WW in reserve in case of injury.

Well I think the knock was that he struggles to get over on O-linemen when they get to the second level. A former safety in college? Really? Aside from huge loads of beef coming at him, he was known for blowing up blocking TEs and FBs.

Personally? I think both Tree and Ray Ray are going to have their stumbles. But I also think Tree is going to be an animal in short order. Ray Ray? I think he's going to take some time and the right situations.

 

[albefree69]

DR RAM in doubt:
So you are NOT talking to me :lmao:

So every night between 7-8 PM I get stoned (legally under prescription) so that I can overcome the pain in the muscles behind my eyes. That pain is also why I have to take two naps every day. I get those headaches from trying to read stuff about the Rams with my double vision and blank spot. In addition to relaxing the muscles behind my eyes so that I can sleep, I get pretty stoned. I thought I had answered you until I read your next post and rechecked my last one. Getting error free and/or intelligent comments from me at this time of the night is a hit or miss proposition.

You're going to have to decide whether you can accommodate my disabilities and not assume the worst from me like you have been or ignore me. I prefer that we converse like the rabid Rams fans we are because I like your posts. :cheers:

Yes, I want to have two rookies starting. As long as one of them isn't a MLB.

 

[RamFan503]

DR RAM in doubt:
So you are NOT talking to me :lmao:

So every night between 7-8 PM I get stoned (legally under prescription) so that I can overcome the pain in the muscles behind my eyes. That pain is also why I have to take two naps every day. I get those headaches from trying to read stuff about the Rams with my double vision and blank spot. In addition to relaxing the muscles behind my eyes so that I can sleep, I get pretty stoned. I thought I had answered you until I read your next post and rechecked my last one. Getting error free and/or intelligent comments from me at this time of the night is a hit or miss proposition.

You're going to have to decide whether you can accommodate my disabilities and not assume the worst from me like you have been or ignore me. I prefer that we converse like the rabid Rams fans we are because I like your posts. :cheers:

Yes, I want to have two rookies starting. As long as one of them isn't a MLB.

Hell no STONER! :sly:

 

[albefree69]

RamFan503 remembering it differently than me:
Well I think the knock was that he struggles to get over on O-linemen when they get to the second level. A former safety in college? Really? Aside from huge loads of beef coming at him, he was known for blowing up blocking TEs and FBs.

Personally? I think both Tree and Ray Ray are going to have their stumbles. But I also think Tree is going to be an animal in short order. Ray Ray? I think he's going to take some time and the right situations.

Here's an example of what I'm going by. Along with what I've seen this year too of course.
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/alec-ogletree?id=2540143" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/ ... id=2540143</a>

WEAKNESSES Rarely uses hands to fight with blockers despite an aggressive mentality. Overruns a lot of plays between the tackles, struggles to recover. Has a lot of issues dealing with second-level blocks from the offensive line, rarely can work over top of them, winds up walled off. Run and chase player at this point, loses gap integrity with false or wasted steps. Dives or lunges for a lot of tackles rather than running through them and wrapping up. Mentality changes when attacking an offensive lineman compared to a running back.

So that's part of why I think that Dunbar is much better in run support and Ogletree is much better in pass defense.

As for Ray Ray compared to Ogletree, you're probably right but I still think Ray Ray is an upgrade over WW. While he doesn't have the mental stuff that WW has, his speed and youth overcomes that lack in my mind. So thinking that, I would prefer to have someone out there making some mistakes but being able to physically handle the position, better than WW can, when he doesn't make a mistake. WW is old and slow and he's going to wear down in games and over the course of the season. If he doesn't get injured. I just see this same thing so many times with older players. 33 is too old to play any LB position other than MLB IMO.

But I'm going to hedge my bet by officially disagreeing with myself about this sometime in the future. Now lets hear your argument. :lol:

 

[RamFan503]

Now lets hear your argument. :lol:

Tomorrow my friend but good play.

 

[ausmurp]

I've been in support of Armstrong as well. He is slightly undersized as far as muscle goes. Ogletree is not undersized so for those that keep saying that please stop - he's 6'2'' 242 lbs - perfect 4-3 LB size. Armstrong is 6'3'' 223 lbs and has put on some muscle since combine where he was weighed in at 216 lbs. He is going to be a gem I think, he can sub in this yr while eating right and working hard to gain another 10 or 15 lbs. I agree with others that are saying next yr could be his yr, he'd be average 4-3 LB size, actually average weight but taller than most at 6'3''. We know he has good ball instincts. I think currently he is actually better against the run than Ogletree, I've seen him get in backfield and make tackles, which Ogletree hasn't shown yet.

 

[ausmurp]

And remember, before the suspension he was thought to be 1st - 2nd rd talent playing out of Miami. He ran a 4.72 40, which was obviously a bad run because he plays a lot faster than that from what I've seen.

 

[albefree69]

ausmurp joining the dark side:
I've been in support of Armstrong as well. He is slightly undersized as far as muscle goes. Ogletree is not undersized so for those that keep saying that please stop - he's 6'2'' 242 lbs - perfect 4-3 LB size. Armstrong is 6'3'' 223 lbs and has put on some muscle since combine where he was weighed in at 216 lbs. He is going to be a gem I think, he can sub in this yr while eating right and working hard to gain another 10 or 15 lbs. I agree with others that are saying next yr could be his yr, he'd be average 4-3 LB size, actually average weight but taller than most at 6'3''. We know he has good ball instincts. I think currently he is actually better against the run than Ogletree, I've seen him get in backfield and make tackles, which Ogletree hasn't shown yet.

If we stand back to back I think we can take the rest of these guys. :gr: :box:

 

[DR RAM]

DR RAM in doubt:
So you are NOT talking to me :lmao:

So every night between 7-8 PM I get stoned (legally under prescription) so that I can overcome the pain in the muscles behind my eyes. That pain is also why I have to take two naps every day. I get those headaches from trying to read stuff about the Rams with my double vision and blank spot. In addition to relaxing the muscles behind my eyes so that I can sleep, I get pretty stoned. I thought I had answered you until I read your next post and rechecked my last one. Getting error free and/or intelligent comments from me at this time of the night is a hit or miss proposition.

You're going to have to decide whether you can accommodate my disabilities and not assume the worst from me like you have been or ignore me. I prefer that we converse like the rabid Rams fans we are because I like your posts. :cheers:

Yes, I want to have two rookies starting. As long as one of them isn't a MLB.

I'll respond to you in private.

 

[RamFan503]

Here's an example of what I'm going by. Along with what I've seen this year too of course.
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/alec-ogletree?id=2540143" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/ ... id=2540143</a>

WEAKNESSES Rarely uses hands to fight with blockers despite an aggressive mentality. Overruns a lot of plays between the tackles, struggles to recover. Has a lot of issues dealing with second-level blocks from the offensive line, rarely can work over top of them, winds up walled off. Run and chase player at this point, loses gap integrity with false or wasted steps. Dives or lunges for a lot of tackles rather than running through them and wrapping up. Mentality changes when attacking an offensive lineman compared to a running back.

So that's part of why I think that Dunbar is much better in run support and Ogletree is much better in pass defense.

From the same article:

STRENGTHS Has excellent speed for the position, can turn on the jets to chase plays down form behind. Beats blocks with hand quickness, plays the position like a safety with a chance to build a frame like a linebacker. That helps undercut blocks to make tackles for loss from behind. Can really hit when he wants to. Attacks blockers with authority. Best at closing on the edge, when running back looks to bounce outside or the quarterback scrambles out of the pocket. Flashes plays where he looks possessed, like nothing will stop him. Sticks to running backs in coverage, even with a slip he has enough closing speed to be reliable in coverage. Attacks the football when tackling in the hopes of creating a fumble. Outstanding straight-line speed. Plays loose.

Huh... sounds a lot like what I said. Funny - no?

Alan still dogging Spoon - As for Ray Ray compared to Ogletree, you're probably right but I still think Ray Ray is an upgrade over WW. While he doesn't have the mental stuff that WW has, his speed and youth overcomes that lack in my mind. So thinking that, I would prefer to have someone out there making some mistakes but being able to physically handle the position, better than WW can, when he doesn't make a mistake. WW is old and slow and he's going to wear down in games and over the course of the season. If he doesn't get injured. I just see this same thing so many times with older players. 33 is too old to play any LB position other than MLB IMO.

But I'm going to hedge my bet by officially disagreeing with myself about this sometime in the future. Now lets hear your argument. :lol:

From what I've seen, Spoon isn't slow. Does he play as fast as he did several years ago? No. Is he a liability? No.

But I will say this. If Ray Ray beats out Spoon, it will say a lot about Ray - cuz Spoon will be battling.

 

[RamFan503]

I'll respond to you in private.

HEY!!! That's like whispering at the dinner table! :bat:

 

[albefree69]

RamFan503 pointing out good stuff:

STRENGTHS Has excellent speed for the position, can turn on the jets to chase plays down form behind. Beats blocks with hand quickness, plays the position like a safety with a chance to build a frame like a linebacker. That helps undercut blocks to make tackles for loss from behind. Can really hit when he wants to. Attacks blockers with authority. Best at closing on the edge, when running back looks to bounce outside or the quarterback scrambles out of the pocket. Flashes plays where he looks possessed, like nothing will stop him. Sticks to running backs in coverage, even with a slip he has enough closing speed to be reliable in coverage. Attacks the football when tackling in the hopes of creating a fumble. Outstanding straight-line speed. Plays loose.

Huh... sounds a lot like what I said. Funny - no?

Alan still dogging Spoon
"WW is old and slow"

From what I've seen, Spoon isn't slow.

Top part:
It does. He's a first round pick for a very good reason but think about it. If he's that inconsistent at the college level how does that translate to the NFL? Or does he just play hard when he wants to? He's a very good player and worth the 30th pick IMO. I would have picked Arthur Brown but that's water under the bridge. Look back to what I said about him. Great at pass D and not as good as Dunbar at run D. It's a relative comparison which I stand by and so far it's shown up in the 3 preseason games IMO.

Bottom part:
My eyes and some of the write ups say something different. Of course my eyes aren't as good as yours so...
If you say Ray Ray three times really fast you can see him making "The Tackle". :lol: Or at least I can see that after 7 or 8 PM every night.

 

[Angry Ram]

If it happens, great. If not, it's to be expected. Tough for UDFAs no matter how they "looked" in camp to make the team let alone start.