If you were confident that Quick would break out this year... (first 3 picks)

[blackbart]

So it's better to compare him to what the Rams have had in the past because they currently have an O where receivers will share targets?

If the Rams had a receiver of high quality he would get more targets on this team, if we had Megatron you don't keep on throwing to Givens just because that's your "philosophy", if we had Josh Gordon we wouldn't keep on throwing to Quick just because that's your "philosophy" if we did I'd have serious questions on Fisher/Schottenheimer.

If we still had Ike Tory and Marshall we would maybe still be running GSOT. You have a lot of if in there that don't mean anything because they are fantasy none of them are reality. In his first year with a back up QB Cook broke the record, that is reality.

 

[Rams and Gators]

If we still had Ike Tory and Marshall we would maybe still be running GSOT. You have a lot of if in there that don't mean anything because they are fantasy none of them are reality. In his first year with a back up QB Cook broke the record, that is reality.

, the back up QB excuse, it would hold if the receivers weren't poor with Sam as well as Clemens.

 

[CoachO]

So it's better to compare him to what the Rams have had in the past because they currently have an O where receivers will share targets?

If the Rams had a receiver of high quality he would get more targets on this team, if we had Megatron you don't keep on throwing to Givens just because that's your "philosophy", if we had Josh Gordon we wouldn't keep on throwing to Quick just because that's your "philosophy" if we did I'd have serious questions on Fisher/Schottenheimer.

The problem with this "argument" is they DON'T have Josh Gordon. So its a pointless statement. The Rams don't have Megatron, or anyone else of that ilk. The problem is, simply, too many people think that every player needs to be some sort of fantasy football superstar or they aren't living up to their worth.

The reality of it is, teams don't play fantasy football, and are not concerned with who puts up the numbers. They are more concerned that they get put up, and on THIS team, how it is put together, will be a collective effort.

 

[Rams and Gators]

The problem with this "argument" is they DON'T have Josh Gordon. So its a pointless statement. The Rams don't have Megatron, or anyone else of that ilk. The problem is, simply, too many people think that every player needs to be some sort of fantasy football superstar or they aren't living up to their worth.

The reality of it is, teams don't play fantasy football, and are not concerned with who puts up the numbers. They are more concerned that they get put up, and on THIS team, how it is put together, will be a collective effort.

And that's fine, if they can collectively get open, collectively catch the ball when it's thrown their way and collectively perform better than 21st (rank with Bradford) then I'm all for whichever way Fisher wants to do it. So far they can't do any of that.

On another note can I just say how much I enjoy your camp reports CoachO, I wasn't a poster on the site last summer so never got a chance to tell you I appreciate the work.

 

[CoachO]

And that's fine, if they can collectively get open, collectively catch the ball when it's thrown their way and collectively perform better than 21st (rank with Bradford) then I'm all for whichever way Fisher wants to do it. So far they can't do any of that.

On another note can I just say how much I enjoy your camp reports CoachO, I wasn't a poster on the site last summer so never got a chance to tell you I appreciate the work.

Thank you for the kind words regarding the camp reports.

Now, back to the point at hand. Using revisionist logic on this subject is kinda like having blinders on. There are just too many variables involved when saying that they "can't do any of that" because they haven't to this point.

If you look ONLY at the numbers, then sure. But by doing that, you fail to recognize all the things that lead to those results at the time they were happening. Which tells me, you think a bunch of 1st & 2nd year WRs were not capable of performing at a level that many just don't at that stage of their careers. It also tells me, you think that they are destined to be the same players moving forward, as they have been in the past. That just doesn't make much sense to me.

Again, maybe its my poor perception, but this just wreaks of the whole fantasy football mentality. Players are only as good as their stats. If they haven't done it in their first or second year, then they wont EVER do it. It also sends a very risky message. Since these guys haven't done it in their 1st or 2nd year, we need to bring in yet another ROOKIE who undoubtedly will be better in his FIRST YEAR than the guys on the roster now.

Sorry, that doesn't fly with me. This also says to me, that too any people think that draft choices are made for the here and now, rather than investing in the guys they draft for the long haul. That if a player hasn't performed from day one, he must not be any good.

 

[blackbart]

, the back up QB excuse, it would hold if the receivers weren't poor with Sam as well as Clemens.

They were not poor with Bradford

159__262__60.7%__1687__241.0/game__6.4/attempt__1 (300) yard game__
14TDs__4INT

 

[Rams and Gators]

Thank you for the kind words regarding the camp reports.

Now, back to the point at hand. Using revisionist logic on this subject is kinda like having blinders on. There are just too many variables involved when saying that they "can't do any of that" because they haven't to this point.

If you look ONLY at the numbers, then sure. But by doing that, you fail to recognize all the things that lead to those results at the time they were happening. Which tells me, you think a bunch of 1st & 2nd year WRs were not capable of performing at a level that many just don't at that stage of their careers. It also tells me, you think that they are destined to be the same players moving forward, as they have been in the past. That just doesn't make much sense to me.

Again, maybe its my poor perception, but this just wreaks of the whole fantasy football mentality. Players are only as good as their stats. If they haven't done it in their first or second year, then they wont EVER do it. It also sends a very risky message. Since these guys haven't done it in their 1st or 2nd year, we need to bring in yet another ROOKIE who undoubtedly will be better in his FIRST YEAR than the guys on the roster now.

Sorry, that doesn't fly with me. This also says to me, that too any people think that draft choices are made for the here and now, rather than investing in the guys they draft for the long haul. That if a player hasn't performed from day one, he must not be any good.

I'm in agreement with you, if they step up then that's fine by me, Hence why I said so far. If Fisher thinks they can improve to the point that they aren't a hindrance to our results then that's fine by me to.

But fantasy football thinking or not I will look at their production as individuals, as a group and as a team, and if they don't step it up I'm not going to be there handing out the excuses.

 

[Rams and Gators]

They were not poor with Bradford

159__262__60.7%__1687__241.0/game__6.4/attempt__1 (300) yard game__
14TDs__4INT

And those numbers could have been so much better had our receivers performed better.

 

[jrry32]

Thank you for the kind words regarding the camp reports.

Now, back to the point at hand. Using revisionist logic on this subject is kinda like having blinders on. There are just too many variables involved when saying that they "can't do any of that" because they haven't to this point.

If you look ONLY at the numbers, then sure. But by doing that, you fail to recognize all the things that lead to those results at the time they were happening. Which tells me, you think a bunch of 1st & 2nd year WRs were not capable of performing at a level that many just don't at that stage of their careers. It also tells me, you think that they are destined to be the same players moving forward, as they have been in the past. That just doesn't make much sense to me.

Again, maybe its my poor perception, but this just wreaks of the whole fantasy football mentality. Players are only as good as their stats. If they haven't done it in their first or second year, then they wont EVER do it. It also sends a very risky message. Since these guys haven't done it in their 1st or 2nd year, we need to bring in yet another ROOKIE who undoubtedly will be better in his FIRST YEAR than the guys on the roster now.

Sorry, that doesn't fly with me. This also says to me, that too any people think that draft choices are made for the here and now, rather than investing in the guys they draft for the long haul. That if a player hasn't performed from day one, he must not be any good.

Thank you. That's the point I keep trying to make. We're not drafting solely for 2014. The emphasis on the draft is planning strategically for the foreseeable future.

And yep, another great point on the rookie WR. Since 2000, a total of FIVE WRs recorded 1000+ receiving yards in their rookie years. The WRs are as follows:
1. Anquan Boldin - 2nd round pick
2. AJ Green - #4 pick
3. Michael Clayton - #15 pick
4. Keenan Allen - 3rd round pick
5. Marques Colston - 7th round pick

That is a total of two first round picks over 13 years. And one of the two ended up being a bust.

So why do people think that Sammy Watkins and/or Mike Evans will come in and immediately be a stud #1 WR for this team? Is it possible? Certainly. Is it probable based on history? No.

Boldin and Clayton are the only two of those WRs to record 1100+ yards as a rookie.

Frankly, if you really want a WR that is going to have an immediate impact, the two most polished WRs imo are Jordan Matthews of Vanderbilt and Jared Abbrederis of Wisconsin. Matthews is a projected 2nd round pick. Abbrederis is projected anywhere from the late 2nd to the late 4th round. I'd also say Odell Beckham Jr. from LSU(mid 1st round pick) is pretty polished.(Jarvis Landry is too...but I'm not a fan of his) You could also add Cooks and Herron to the list but they're both short.

And those numbers could have been so much better had our receivers performed better.

They could have been. Could say that for other QBs too including Peyton Manning whose WRs were 4th in the NFL in dropped passes(as scary as that is to think about).

But yes, our WRs do need to catch the ball more consistently.

 

[Rams and Gators]

Thank you. That's the point I keep trying to make. We're not drafting solely for 2014. The emphasis on the draft is planning strategically for the foreseeable future.

And yep, another great point on the rookie WR. Since 2000, a total of FIVE WRs recorded 1000+ receiving yards in their rookie years. The WRs are as follows:
1. Anquan Boldin - 2nd round pick
2. AJ Green - #4 pick
3. Michael Clayton - #15 pick
4. Keenan Allen - 3rd round pick
5. Marques Colston - 7th round pick

That is a total of two first round picks over 13 years. And one of the two ended up being a bust.

So why do people think that Sammy Watkins and/or Mike Evans will come in and immediately be a stud #1 WR for this team? Is it possible? Certainly. Is it probable based on history? No.

Boldin and Clayton are the only two of those WRs to record 1100+ yards as a rookie.

Frankly, if you really want a WR that is going to have an immediate impact, the two most polished WRs imo are Jordan Matthews of Vanderbilt and Jared Abbrederis of Wisconsin. Matthews is a projected 2nd round pick. Abbrederis is projected anywhere from the late 2nd to the late 4th round. I'd also say Odell Beckham Jr. from LSU(mid 1st round pick) is pretty polished.(Jarvis Landry is too...but I'm not a fan of his) You could also add Cooks and Herron to the list but they're both short.



They could have been. Could say that for other QBs too including Peyton Manning whose WRs were 4th in the NFL in dropped passes(as scary as that is to think about).

But yes, our WRs do need to catch the ball more consistently.

On Beckham Jr: I'm assuming based on last season both Austin and Bailey will start, what's your opinion on another sub 6' receiver? Do we need a big bodied one or could a starting 3 of 5'8", 5'10" and 5'11" work?

 

[Yamahopper]

Training camp is not the issue. The Rams would have decided already if he's to be counted on. And how they feel about him either way they will act on it.
Quick is in the position to win a starting spot and fight for a roster spot at the same time. Lets say the Rams draft Watkins / Evans, that doesn't mean Quick gets cut but it would eat into his snaps.

 

[CoachO]

On Beckham Jr: I'm assuming based on last season both Austin and Bailey will start, what's your opinion on another sub 6' receiver? Do we need a big bodied one or could a starting 3 of 5'8", 5'10" and 5'11" work?

Why would one assume that Austin AND Bailey will "start"? I would think in 2 WR sets, you are gonna see either Givens or Quick opposite Bailey if he continues to develop in the off-season. Austin is the wild card. I envision him lining up in many different spots again next year, but not necessarily as an every down WR.

Bailey may be listed at 5'10, but he plays much bigger than that with his catch radius. Givens at 6'0 and Quick at 6'3 are not considered small. Add Cook to the mix, and they have enough size. Again, I know it seems like a foreign concept to you, but this team just isn't going to play TWO guys the majority of the time.

 

[jrry32]

On Beckham Jr: I'm assuming based on last season both Austin and Bailey will start, what's your opinion on another sub 6' receiver? Do we need a big bodied one or could a starting 3 of 5'8", 5'10" and 5'11" work?

I'm not concerned with size. If they can get open and catch the ball, put them on my team.

 

[jrry32]

Why would one assume that Austin AND Bailey will "start"? I would think in 2 WR sets, you are gonna see either Givens or Quick opposite Bailey if he continues to develop in the off-season. Austin is the wild card. I envision him lining up in many different spots again next year, but not necessarily as an every down WR.

Bailey may be listed at 5'10, but he plays much bigger than that with his catch radius. Givens at 6'0 and Quick at 6'3 are not considered small. Add Cook to the mix, and they have enough size. Again, I know it seems like a foreign concept to you, but this team just isn't going to play TWO guys the majority of the time.

I'd start Austin and Bailey if Quick and Givens don't show significant improvement.

 

[Rams and Gators]

Why would one assume that Austin AND Bailey will "start"? I would think in 2 WR sets, you are gonna see either Givens or Quick opposite Bailey if he continues to develop in the off-season. Austin is the wild card. I envision him lining up in many different spots again next year, but not necessarily as an every down WR.

Bailey may be listed at 5'10, but he plays much bigger than that with his catch radius. Givens at 6'0 and Quick at 6'3 are not considered small. Add Cook to the mix, and they have enough size. Again, I know it seems like a foreign concept to you, but this team just isn't going to play TWO guys the majority of the time.

Because for my money they both played better as rookies than either Quick or Givens did as second year players, not immediately but by the end of the season.

 

[CoachO]

I'd start Austin and Bailey if Quick and Givens don't show significant improvement.

I don't disagree with that. Just have more faith in Quick's development than most I guess. Givens on the other hand, not so much.

 

[CoachO]

Because for my money they both played better as rookies than either Quick or Givens did as second year players, not immediately but by the end of the season.

With Clemens throwing the passes, the routes that Quick and Givens were asked to run just were not in his wheelhouse. Everything that Bailey caught, (avg TWO CATCHES per game) were comebacks or sideline all in the 8-10 yard range. Add Bradford back in the mix, and lets see how Quick progresses running the deep dig route, or the sideline fade.

 

[iced]

, the back up QB excuse, it would hold if the receivers weren't poor with Sam as well as Clemens.

Especially since the teams current starting receiver hasn't scored a touchdown in his last 22 games with bradford. (givens).

 

[Rams and Gators]

With Clemens throwing the passes, the routes that Quick and Givens were asked to run just were not in his wheelhouse. Everything that Bailey caught, (avg TWO CATCHES per game) were comebacks or sideline all in the 8-10 yard range. Add Bradford back in the mix, and lets see how Quick progresses running the deep dig route, or the sideline fade.

I get an average of 3 per game over the last 5. Maybe Quick progresses, but Bailey still showed me more at the end of the year than Quick has in the last 2 years.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Jared Abbrederis of Wisconsin

This is a player I really like. He's got NFL-ready cuts to sell his routes.

I'm not totally comparing the two, but he's a modern day Brandon Stokley with insane field awareness and quick feet.

Rams; draft this man.