If We Stay Put At #2 And Take Clowney

[Alan]

NJRamsFan coming back with:
well 5 years from now we will be out from under many of our contracts so it is hard say...of course this is all hypothetical but to your point..what if that OT or CB that we drafted becomes the best in the league? they get paid just as much as the DE's so it is just not logical to base your draft pics on who you think you'll be able to afford 5 years down the road...put it this way, most teams do not have multiple first round pics...we are fortunate enough to have that luxury so why pass on the best player available when you can still address OT AND FS in the next 20 or so pics

Yeah but I don't think that's true. A great FS doesn't make anywhere near what the best DE makes. Not even close. So it is with the other positions I mentioned too. OT is pretty close but still less. It's all relative of course because they would all still be expensive. But that's where smart managing of your resources comes into play. IMO it's why some teams are good for very long periods of time. It starts with smart drafting. Drafting with the future of the organization in mind.

BTW: You getting all the snow I am in NH?

 

[NJRamsFan]

Yeah but I don't think that's true. A great FS doesn't make anywhere near what the best DE makes. Not even close. So it is with the other positions I mentioned too. OT is pretty close but still less. It's all relative of course because they would all still be expensive. But that's where smart managing of your resources comes into play. IMO it's why some teams are good for very long periods of time. It starts with smart drafting. Drafting with the future of the organization in mind.

BTW: You getting all the snow I am in NH?

I mean you're probably getting more but its pretty nasty here..constant snow and the wind is out of control

 

[jrry32]

So we'd get his services for 5 years and then he'd be gone. Or Quinn would be gone. Cause I really don't think we could afford the two best DEs in the game. Not and still have great players elsewhere.

Would another 10 sacks per year make our D that much better if we don't clean up our secondary problems?

How well have those teams that Peppers has played on done? I'd rather get an OT or a FS or a DB that we can afford to keep. I'd rather have very good players everywhere than a few great ones.

Except at QB of course.

But your method is another viable option. Not a route I'd go though.

We could pay both.

How have the defenses with Peppers done? Lets look at PPG Rankings:
Carolina
2001 - 28th (YEAR BEFORE PEPPERS DRAFTED)
2002 - 5th
2003 - 10th
2004 - 15th
2005 - 5th
2006 - 8th
2007 - 15th
2008 - 12th
2009 - 9th
2010 - 26th (YEAR AFTER PEPPERS LEFT)

Chicago
2009 - 21st (YEAR BEFORE PEPPERS SIGNED)
2010 - 4th
2011 - 14th
2012 - 3rd
2013 - 30th

2013 was after Lovie Smith left and most people agree that Peppers clearly wasn't the same player in 2013 that he has been in the past...his game declined significantly. He is 33 years old.

 

[Alan]

jrry32 with great stats:
We could pay both.

How have the defenses with Peppers done? Lets look at PPG Rankings:
Carolina
2001 - 28th (YEAR BEFORE PEPPERS DRAFTED)
2002 - 5th
2003 - 10th
2004 - 15th
2005 - 5th
2006 - 8th
2007 - 15th
2008 - 12th
2009 - 9th
2010 - 26th (YEAR AFTER PEPPERS LEFT)

Chicago
2009 - 21st (YEAR BEFORE PEPPERS SIGNED)
2010 - 4th
2011 - 14th
2012 - 3rd
2013 - 30th

2013 was after Lovie Smith left and most people agree that Peppers clearly wasn't the same player in 2013 that he has been in the past...his game declined significantly. He is 33 years old.

I figured any defense he was part of would be great. But what I sadi to NJ was how did his teams do. We already have a good D that could be great if we had another very good CB, FS and OLB. Top 5 in my mind. Easily.

My point was that you have to husband you resources for the long term. Find the right mix of superstars and good players that make for a great team and a great organization. You can't spend all your money in one area and ignore the others. We are going to have trouble just keeping the good players we like now.

He was certainly on some very good Ds.

 

[kurtfaulk]

I figured any defense he was part of would be great. But what I sadi to NJ was how did his teams do. We already have a good D that could be great if we had another very good CB, FS and OLB. Top 5 in my mind. Easily.

My point was that you have to husband you resources for the long term. Find the right mix of superstars and good players that make for a great team and a great organization. You can't spend all your money in one area and ignore the others. We are going to have trouble just keeping the good players we like now.

He was certainly on some very good Ds.

the rams want to make their run in the next 4 years. All drafted players are cheap labour.

protect Bradford and the sky is the limit for this rams team.

.

 

[NorCalRamFan]

Clowney really fell off this season. From 13 Sacks to 3. Questions about work ethic, conditioning, technique, etc...
Takes plays off, plays too high and lineman get under his pads, gets tired easy and tries to get by on natural talent, etc...
If he had come out last year, he would have been an easy top 3 pick, but now, he's going to have to work on his conditioning and at 6'6'', NFL Tackles will easily get under his pads and neutralize him.

Besides, the Rams are set at RDE and even LDE. Chris Long played most of the season with a hip injury and still managed 8.5 sacks and put up 24.5 sacks in the previous 2 seasons. If Long has another sub-par season next year, then it might be time to look for a replacement, but Clowney is a luxury pick the Rams can't afford and could very well be another Vernon Gholston.

Will he be the cat-like quick guy that can change direction like Alan Iverson, or will he be the guy with 3 sacks and appeared to be out of shape with a poor work ethic? That's a tough pick to make for a high pick.

Even if he were the Clowney of last year, I would have to pass. He's just a luxury the Rams can't afford. OTOH, there's this kid that's built like a hummingbird but moves like one too that plays QB from A&M that I'd like to talk about...

 

[jrry32]

I figured any defense he was part of would be great. But what I sadi to NJ was how did his teams do. We already have a good D that could be great if we had another very good CB, FS and OLB. Top 5 in my mind. Easily.

My point was that you have to husband you resources for the long term. Find the right mix of superstars and good players that make for a great team and a great organization. You can't spend all your money in one area and ignore the others. We are going to have trouble just keeping the good players we like now.

He was certainly on some very good Ds.

I think resource management is a good reason to draft Clowney. There are very few elite players. If you think he can be one, draft him. Because most teams have one or two at most.

 

[NorCalRamFan]

Why draft Clowney when the Rams have the best DE tandem in the NFL?
The Rams can trade down out of that pick (again) and pick up a bunch of picks like they did before and fill need positions.

Last time we ended up with Brockers, Pead, Jenkins, Watkins, Ogletree, Bailey and Stacey

Watkins was a bust and is gone. Pead is cheap labor but is on his way out.

Brocker and Ogletree are future PB level players.
Jenkins was named as a PB alternate.
Bailey will easily be a 1,000 yard WR as he is the best route runner on the team and also has the best hands on the team. IDK what Schotty and Fisher are thinking not giving him any PT.

Stacey is a 1,000 yard back

'Tree is a stud with a high ceiling that will only get better. He led the team in tackles and had 6 forced fumbles. He's going to be a terror.

I would love to draft Manziel, but if not, let's make a deal and draft a $#!TLOAD of 2nd and 3rd rounders in exchange for moving down.
Use our 13th overall to draft Hasean Dix as we need a FS and move McCleod to Nickle CB. Cut Finnegan and save some money.
Use the 2nd and 3rd to fill needs at OL, OLB G, DB

Trade up our 5th, 6th and 7th rounders to get into the mid rounds as those late round guys rarely make the team and are a crap shoot and have a 12% chance of even making a roster unless there is Zac Stacy or someone there we really like.

It's all about value.

IDK if you've ever played in a salary cap FFL before, but you learn a lot about value. While all these guys are spending big money on at least a few players, the guys that do well find the value players.

Why are the 49ers and Seahawks currently doing well? Because they aren't paying their QB's $#!T which leaves them Millions to spend on FA's.

But when that bill comes, they won't be able to spend on FA's as their QB's will demand 20M+ per season. The party will be over for them.

Value, value, value.

The more 2nd and 3rd round picks, the better. A great, inexpensive way to build a winning team without breaking the bank.

 

[Alan]

kurtfaulk thinking it all starts with keeping Sam alive:
the rams want to make their run in the next 4 years. All drafted players are cheap labour.

protect Bradford and the sky is the limit for this rams team.

Can't argue with that.

 

[Alan]

jrry32 stumping me:
I think resource management is a good reason to draft Clowney. There are very few elite players. If you think he can be one, draft him. Because most teams have one or two at most.

I understand, even if I don't agree with it, your view about grabbing elite players when you can because of their rarity but I don't see what that has to do with effective resource management. Unless he plays a position where resources need to be spent then it has the opposite effect IMO. Can you explain your reasoning? I mean as it pertains to effective resource management.

 

[LumberTubs]

I'm with Alan on this. Put simply, we don't need a DE. Our D line is our greatest strength, not just in terms of the starters but the depth. I have a massive problem with drafting a DE in April, not to mention one that comes with the risk of collecting his nice big fat pro contract and thinking he's already made it before playing a single snap. Clowney has issues that make me worry he'll do just that.

I'm not even convinced by picking Matthews (I'm knocking the pick here not the player). Our need on the O line is a priority but I don't see why we can't get a good starting tackle later on cus we've currently got 3 of the first 42 picks and could potentially increase that. Trade down and we could get a starting tackle, starting FS and a potential starter at guard as well as corner back depth. We could fill so many needs in one go its ridiculous.

 

[Ramhusker]

Exciting draft coming up in 2014. The Rams can get 4 starters in this one plus good depth, no matter which direction they choose. Clowney, no Clowney, a solid, solid team next season.

 

[LumberTubs]

Exciting draft coming up in 2014. The Rams can get 4 starters in this one plus good depth, no matter which direction they choose. Clowney, no Clowney, a solid, solid team next season.

Made more exciting by the fact that we have competent people making the decisions

 

[Alan]

Always a good thing to have competent people running the show.

 

[LesBaker]

I think resource management is a good reason to draft Clowney. There are very few elite players. If you think he can be one, draft him. Because most teams have one or two at most.

Even with how well the DL is performing and areas of need elsewhere?

Another way to look at it is this. They might be able to fill two needs rather than adding to a clear team strength. It's a hard call because you are right there are only one or two elite level players at any position on their roster. It's a difficult call because of that.

Add one potentially elite guy or add two excellent starters?

That's the $64,000 question.

 

[jrry32]

Even with how well the DL is performing and areas of need elsewhere?

Another way to look at it is this. They might be able to fill two needs rather than adding to a clear team strength. It's a hard call because you are right there are only one or two elite level players at any position on their roster. It's a difficult call because of that.

Add one potentially elite guy or add two excellent starters?

That's the $64,000 question.

Yessir. Think through the NFL teams and think about how many truly elite players each team has on offense and defense. Most teams have 1 or 2. Some have 0. There are a couple with 3 or 4. Point is, elite players are very rare and very hard to find. If you think you potentially have one, take him. It's not like we can't get Clowney on the field in the mean time. Our #3 DE sees about 35-40% of the snaps on average per game.

 

[NorCalRamFan]

I also think we can draft a QB with our 1A and save a lot of money to spend on the FA market or to extend guys like Quinn and other young guys that will be hitting their peak soon and needing to be paid.

If Cutler got the kind of money he got, SB isn't going to take a pay cut, regardless of performance.

We're looking at 20 million per year for what I consider an average QB when we can draft a QB for 4-5 Million that will be average at first with a lot more upside.

Pick 1A: QB
Pick 1B: Hasean Dix, FS
Then move McCleod to Nickle and cut Finnegan and save several million dollars.

 

[jap]

I wonder if anti-Clowney crowd is aware that having two dominant DE's will make life so much easier for our DB's in the passing game. We know The Mighty One is money against the run now; Clowney has shown some solid run-stopping ability that needs to be further refined at the pro level.

 

[Ramhusker]

I wonder if anti-Clowney crowd is aware that having two dominant DE's will make life so much easier for our DB's in the passing game. We know The Mighty One is money against the run now; Clowney has shown some solid run-stopping ability that needs to be further refined at the pro level.

Point well taken and if you take Clowney with the #2 overall and turn around and pick the best CB/FS available with the #13 overall, I think your D could be elite for years to come. But then what would your OL look like? A decent OG/OT could be had with the 44th overall pick but would that be enough? I'd say yes if Long is healthy to start the season and Saffold is re-signed but two pretty big "ifs" at this point. This is why Snead gets paid the big bucks.

 

[BigRamFan]

I wonder if the outcome of the Super Bowl will affect Snead's thinking? We've all heard for years that the NFL is a "copycat league". If, say Carolina, wins on the strength of a stout D does that make Snead think differently than if Denver wins by putting up 50?