IF Aaron Donald Really Wants QB Money...

[OnceARam]

How'd the JJ Watt deal work out... :deadhorse:

 

[OldSchool]

How'd the JJ Watt deal work out... :deadhorse:

Interesting comparison since JJ had to wait until his 7th season to get a QB. JJ also only has never had a big cap hit year so his contract never hurt them. Their drafting of offense did.

 

[OnceARam]

Interesting comparison since JJ had to wait until his 7th season to get a QB. JJ also only has never had a big cap hit year so his contract never hurt them. Their drafting of offense did.

I was referring to W/L's.

A DT doesn't win a game for you. You can just scheme for a DT, like Atlanta did.

 

[OldSchool]

I was referring to W/L's.

A DT doesn't win a game for you. You can just scheme for a DT, like Atlanta did.

And I was referring to w/l also. Hard for a DT to help a team win games when they throw out some of the QB's they have during his career.

 

[tempests]

Is a HOF talented DT required to win a Superbowl?

Teams have won with and without them.

Defensive tackles have been named regular season MVP and Super Bowl MVP before. There's quite a list of DTs who made significant contributions to their Super Bowl winning teams including Mean Joe Greene, Warren Sapp, Richard Seymour, Dan Hampton, Bob Lilly,Randy White, and others. Worth thinking about.

 

[Ram65]

If Donald is given 23 million a year that's 13% of the current 177 Million Cap. Somehow the Rams need to figure a way to keep him 10 to 11 % of the cap each year.

 

[dieterbrock]

I was referring to W/L's.

A DT doesn't win a game for you. You can just scheme for a DT, like Atlanta did.

The best defensive player does. Like LT for the Giants and Ray Lewis did for Baltimore.
Donald is a generational talent. And he’ll be paid as such.

 

[LesBaker]

I am concerned by that quote. My hope is that Gonzalez threw that out there himself, that he doesn't necessarily know something that he picked up on from the Rams. But if it is true... As much as I love the dude then I think now is the time to move him in a blockbuster deal.

Yeah that is just an opinion piece.

blahblahblah from him.

Enough. We had to hear this all last off-season.

It's never enough my dear. Never in life.

You can find free agents and draft other positions.

Yes and AD was drafted..........so it begs the question that maybe there is another AD in the next two years.

Not likely, he is fantastic. But we don't know.

The question is the risk or reward versus paying him or losing him and finding someone else for that position at far less money.

But for the sake of argument, If and when a really tough decision needs to be made by letting go of one of our best players because of money the smarter choice would be not paying Gurley. You can find uber talented RB's MUCH more easily than DT's like Donald.

I'd say that edge is not quite there but that it isn't a big enough edge that you let AD leave before Gurley.

Lots of factors. Draft position, OL, other DL players.

It's not a simple thing.

It's like booties. All different and few are bad.

How much is too much money?

If we only knew that LOL.

IMO for AD anything over 20MIL is a mistake and any deal over 5 years is stupid.

 

[Corbin]

I think Donald is looking for the 22-23 a year range if I had to guess.

Part of a negotiation is working it until it works for both sides. I think after all this time both sides are serious at it getting done before OTA’s to say the most.

 

[fanotodd]

He should get in the area of 5-6 years at anywhere from 18-22m per. He’s worth every penny. He’s a future HOF and I’d rather not see us screw up losing the best DT we’ve ever had. Maybe top 5 all time.

"Best DT we've ever had"? Easy. There once was a man named Merlin Olsen.
Donald has to put up a few more seasons at this high level before it's even a legitimate conversation.

As for a huge pay day, he deserves it more than anybody who has signed a big contract in the last 2 yrs. Barring injuries, he will be in the HOF one day. I believe that.
...but he never has the ball in his hand. A QB does on every play, barring a trick play or wildcat.

If this guy is gonna get anywhere around $20mil, it has to be short term (3yrs). Anything longer will be more harmful than good.

If they don't come to terms, I think the Rams can get one more year w/o a negative vibe running through the locker room--then they move him. The Rams can do a lotta good w/ $20mil instead of giving it to a DT.
See Talib, Peters, and NRC. Don't they come in for less than $20mil COMBINED?

 

[TexasRam]

22-23 million per year is not going to cap strap us.

Franchise tag of a DE is 17 Million n 2018.

Donald not only destroys the run consistently but he pressures the QB before any franchise tagged DE can even get there. This is one of many ways to look at it.

You just have to be smart in other ways. For example finding some rookie contract players that can play at a high level on the lower rookie contract etc. Such as Peters is.

One thing the 3-4 teams such as Pittsburg has always done is found those outside 3-4 LBers later
in the draft, and just recycled them ever few years. You find one dimensional guys that can just rush the passer, these types tend to fall in the draft.

When you start to talk about 30 million per year that does get difficult.

But 23? within a few years that will be yesterdays 20. By year 4-5 it will be a bargain.

I hope he isn't looking for 30. It wont surprise me if the final deal is closer to 25 per year.

 

[fanotodd]

Aaron Donald makes the entire defense better. When he doesn't get the sack himself, he creates sacks for other players. He flushes the QB into the path of others to be sacked, which helps others and all Dlinemen. His pressure forces QBs to throw out of rythm. It forces them to make rushed decisions, which helps the secondary and Lbers. He affects everything on defense just like a QB does on offense. Without him the Rams pass rush is complete crap. The defense would be bottom 20 or worse.

I don't think there is a poster on this topic that doubts anything you said. Personally, I think you're spot on. He's really good. That has never come into question.

What IS the question (per the OP) is at what point do you draw a line in the sand and simply say,"we can't afford that."?

I'm not reading too many responses of that nature. Does this mean the general concensus is that he is a "sign at all costs" player? I'm not so sure one currently exists in the NFL. I mean, what if he wants something like $25mil for 7 yrs, $120 mil guaranteed? Are we on board with that?

So at what point do the Rams make that hard decision and try to move him, citing irreconcilable differences?

Edit: see the Les Baker post on this page. I think he nailed it.

 

[XXXIVwin]

If this guy is gonna get anywhere around $20mil, it has to be short term (3yrs). Anything longer will be more harmful than good.
?

Reminder: with 5th year option and two tags, Rams can keep AD under contract for the next 3 years for less than 40M.

So to suggest that it would be a good idea for the Rams to offer AD a 3 year deal for 60M? Doesn’t make sense.

My guess is that the Rams are looking for a long-term deal (5 or 6 years) because they already have in essence a short term deal in place. Bargaining involves finding a middle ground between (a) the fact that AD is ridiculously outperforming his rookie deal and the Rams need to show they can keep their superstars and treat them fairly and (b) the unfortunate reality that the Rams have a ton of leverage.

 

[dieterbrock]

Reminder: with 5th year option and two tags, Rams can keep AD under contract for the next 3 years for less than 40M.

Reminder
Todd Gurley is going in to year 4
Goff year 3
May need that tag for other purpose

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I don't think there is a poster on this topic that doubts anything you said. Personally, I think you're spot on. He's really good. That has never come into question.

What IS the question (per the OP) is at what point do you draw a line in the sand and simply say,"we can't afford that."?

I'm not reading too many responses of that nature. Does this mean the general concensus is that he is a "sign at all costs" player? I'm not so sure one currently exists in the NFL. I mean, what if he wants something like $25mil for 7 yrs, $120 mil guaranteed? Are we on board with that?

So at what point do the Rams make that hard decision and try to move him, citing irreconcilable differences?

Edit: see the Les Baker post on this page. I think he nailed it.

I've said all along that this year they have the cap space to pay him a big up front bonus and front load the contract. Next year they could be 100 million under the cap per reports. If needed let Gurley hit free agency. A lot of teams have good running games without a huge contract running back. Washington comes to mind. Ideally Leveon Bell doesn't get his way and Jack up the RB pay scale, and the Rams can franchise Gurley. I would not let Aaron Donald hit free agency. I'd pay him Suh money. They are so close to reaching a Superbowl. Letting him walk in the middle of this run would be insane.

I look at it like Patriots. Keep the great players while they are great, then just before they start slipping, trade them while they still have value. It's likely that Donald won't be able to play at this level after six more years. That is ten years as the best. Playoff runs don't usually last more than three or four years. Then teams have to start retooling. So front load his contract, and make it tradeable after four years and if the Rams need to retool they may be able to get a first round pick from a team that is on the cusp of the playoffs. Then they get ammo to replace aging players on the downside of their career.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

"Best DT we've ever had"? Easy. There once was a man named Merlin Olsen.
Donald has to put up a few more seasons at this high level before it's even a legitimate conversation.

As for a huge pay day, he deserves it more than anybody who has signed a big contract in the last 2 yrs. Barring injuries, he will be in the HOF one day. I believe that.
...but he never has the ball in his hand. A QB does on every play, barring a trick play or wildcat.

If this guy is gonna get anywhere around $20mil, it has to be short term (3yrs). Anything longer will be more harmful than good.

If they don't come to terms, I think the Rams can get one more year w/o a negative vibe running through the locker room--then they move him. The Rams can do a lotta good w/ $20mil instead of giving it to a DT.
See Talib, Peters, and NRC. Don't they come in for less than $20mil COMBINED?

If they give him his wish and sign him to a deal with a three year opt out clause, or sign him short term, then they will be in the same position in three years. No NFL team has ever given a player an opt out. That would be bad with a salary cap and open a Pandora's box for the league. So say they pay him for three years. What do they get when he moves on? A third round compensation pick. That would suck as a return for a guy of his talent. Donor's trying to beat the system. It doesn't work that way. If they sign him to a big contract and guarantee a large portion, and also pay up front in a signing bonus, then in three years they will have to do it all over again, or some team will.

BTW I think Donald is better than Merlin Olsen. Aaron is going against better bigger, faster Olinemen and isn't surrounded by Rosey Grief and Deacon Jones.

 

[Ramzheart]

I have been in the camp that you don't pay non QBs that much money. But I've accepted that we're going to.

Once we do, we will probably just have a 3 year window with Goff and/or Gurley still being cheap.

I agree, as much as you want to keep all of your stud players, You have to look at the teams that have had long term success. Of course at the top of the list is New England. We all know what their money is.
When you look at the run Seattle's had, they totally won the lottery because they hit on a I believe Wilson was a 6th Rd. Pick, as well as Sherman being a late rounder. That is the best scenario a team could ever hope for.
Sorry Seahags, those days are over!

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Interesting comparison since JJ had to wait until his 7th season to get a QB. JJ also only has never had a big cap hit year so his contract never hurt them. Their drafting of offense did.

Plus Aaron is shorter and thicker anyone could get hurt but tear cut linemen are at higher risk of back injuries.

I was referring to W/L's.

A DT doesn't win a game for you. You can just scheme for a DT, like Atlanta did.

If they get him a decent Nose Tackle to eat up blocks, then it won't be easy to scheme around Donald.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I agree, as much as you want to keep all of your stud players, You have to look at the teams that have had long term success. Of course at the top of the list is New England. We all know what their money is.
When you look at the run Seattle's had, they totally won the lottery because they hit on a I believe Wilson was a 6th Rd. Pick, as well as Sherman being a late rounder. That is the best scenario a team could ever hope for.
Sorry Seahags, those days are over!

Wilson was a third. New England kept their stud DLine intact for a long time. And why rely on luck to stay competitive?

 

[iamme33]

(b) the unfortunate reality that the Rams have a ton of leverage.

not to sure the rams have any leverage on him. last year he turned down a huge pay raise and held out until opening week on less then 2 mil. this year he will get almost 6 mil so he could hold out for half the year and still make more then last year. I think this boils down to if ad wants to be a ram or not. last year it was said he wanted out but after a year with mcvay hopefully he wants to stay.