I believe in Keenum! Too early to judge Goff

[OC--LeftCoast]

"You play to win" Herm was right on that

Most reasonable fans here would agree out the gate, CK gives them their best chance

I just can't comprehend the other side, i suppose if Snisher had an ironclad 5 year extension they would possibly start Goff week one ( of course that would fast track his development)

But, at the end of the day, to me it's back to the you play to win thing

 

[jrry32]

Goff has me concerned with his multiple turnovers during the preseason, his apparent lack of play calling ability from the huddle and his poor decisions that have led to questionable passes.

I'm really glad we have Keenum as a first string QB this season. With Goff we can expect stupid decisions and more turnovers that will lose us games. With Keenum we can at least win some games.

 

[jrry32]

"You play to win" Herm was right on that

Most reasonable fans here would agree out the gate, CK gives them their best chance

I just can't comprehend the other side, i suppose if Snisher had an ironclad 5 year extension they would possibly start Goff week one ( of course that would fast track his development)

But, at the end of the day, to me it's back to the you play to win thing

That's the problem. You play to win 16 games. A lot of people will tell you that Keenum gives the Rams the best chance to win Week 1. And maybe even Weeks 1 through 4. But the problem is that over a 16 game season, he does not. Having Goff start Week 5 instead of Week 1 isn't going to make him any less of a rookie or any more experienced against NFL defenses. You're simply delaying his development.

So starting Case Keenum does not give the Rams the best chance to win over the full 16 game season, that is my contention.

 

[Angry Ram]

"You play to win" Herm was right on that

Most reasonable fans here would agree out the gate, CK gives them their best chance

I just can't comprehend the other side, i suppose if Snisher had an ironclad 5 year extension they would possibly start Goff week one ( of course that would fast track his development)

But, at the end of the day, to me it's back to the you play to win thing

Exactly. That's the goal. If you're a fan, you want to see the team win, regardless of who is QB. Anyone can see Jared Goff is the QB of the future. The team has all of a sudden a great luxury in developing not 1, but 2 (Sean Mannion) QBs while Case keeps things steady. Ask Minnesota, SF, or Dallas if they want the Rams' QB situation. I fully expect Jared to play this year. It probably won't be week 1. Which is fine by me.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

That's the problem. You play to win 16 games. A lot of people will tell you that Keenum gives the Rams the best chance to win Week 1. And maybe even Weeks 1 through 4. But the problem is that over a 16 game season, he does not. Having Goff start Week 5 instead of Week 1 isn't going to make him any less of a rookie or any more experienced against NFL defenses. You're simply delaying his development.

So starting Case Keenum does not give the Rams the best chance to win over the full 16 game season, that is my contention.

I get what you're saying, in fact as a fan I concur, but if...I was the HC who needs to win now, or, the team whom expects the staff to put them in the best position to win (week by week) well there would be that pesky conflict of interest thing potentially rearing its ugly head.

Maybe we can have the best of both worlds, Keenum gets them to 4-2, has a minor ( I said minor) injury Goff takes over and the rest is history

Now excuse me while I check
My power ball tix

 

[yrba1]

 

[jrry32]

Exactly. That's the goal. If you're a fan, you want to see the team win, regardless of who is QB. Anyone can see Jared Goff is the QB of the future. The team has all of a sudden a great luxury in developing not 1, but 2 (Sean Mannion) QBs while Case keeps things steady. Ask Minnesota, SF, or Dallas if they want the Rams' QB situation. I fully expect Jared to play this year. It probably won't be week 1. Which is fine by me.

That's precisely the problem. He doesn't do that. @Fatbot wrote an incredible post detailing this issue. Keenum is more of the same. He's the type of guy who isn't going to have this offense consistently scoring 20 points per game. He's the type of guy who isn't going to consistently post 230 yards of passing. He's the type of guy who isn't going to consistently produce a couple TDs per game.

Case doesn't keep things steady. Case provides bottom 5 QB play. He offers us a guy who isn't going to single-handedly lose a game but will not do enough to win us games without the defense, running game, and special teams winning the day.

To win with Case Keenum, the other parts of our team have to play quality football. That's a problem. That's why they drafted Jared Goff. The Rams shouldn't need to be nearly perfect in every other aspect to make up for lackluster QB play.

That's why I am so outraged with this entire situation. Fisher has painted this team into a corner with more 7-9 bullshit.

Frankly, I think if you asked those three teams if they want Case Keenum as their starting QB, Minnesota would be the only one that answered affirmatively.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

That's precisely the problem. He doesn't do that. @Fatbot wrote an incredible post detailing this issue. Keenum is more of the same. He's the type of guy who isn't going to have this offense consistently scoring 20 points per game. He's the type of guy who isn't going to consistently post 230 yards of passing. He's the type of guy who isn't going to consistently produce a couple TDs per game.

Case doesn't keep things steady. Case provides bottom 5 QB play. He offers us a guy who isn't going to single-handedly lose a game but will not do enough to win us games without the defense, running game, and special teams winning the day.

To win with Case Keenum, the other parts of our team have to play quality football. That's a problem. That's why they drafted Jared Goff. The Rams shouldn't need to be nearly perfect in every other aspect to make up for lackluster QB play.

That's why I am so outraged with this entire situation. Fisher has painted this team into a corner with more 7-9 bullcrap.

Frankly, I think if you asked those three teams if they want Case Keenum as their starting QB, Minnesota would be the only one that answered affirmatively.

I don't know jrry, maybe you and "fatty" lol could be right about CK

I've seen the guy throw some pretty sweet passes, ask Richard Sherman

I see him as steadily improving, I have regrets we don't have him under contract beyond this year b/c there is a possibly he may achieve 2nd round trade material down the road

Time will reveal soon enough

 

[jrry32]

I don't know jrry, maybe you and "fatty" lol could be right about CK

I've seen the guy throw some pretty sweet passes, ask Richard Sherman

I see him as steadily improving, I have regrets we don't have him under contract beyond this year b/c there is a possibly he may achieve 2nd round trade material down the road

Time will reveal soon enough

Yea, that was a nice TD to Britt. But if you look into that game as a whole, he threw for 103 yards on a day where Gurley had 80+ yards rushing, a rushing TD, and averaged over 4 yards per carry; the defense held Seattle to 17 points and scored a defensive TD; and special teams set us up nicely on our scoring drives.

While he made a nice throw, his performance in that game doesn't even begin to measure up to what you expect out of starting QB.

I don't see steady improvement. I see the same QB. He's a NFL QB. He'll make nice plays from time to time. But I see a limited guy. He has limited field vision, limited arm strength, and inconsistent accuracy. Yea, he does a nice job of avoiding turnovers. But that's mainly because he doesn't take many risks. That's awesome when he's a backup. When you lose your starter, you want a guy who isn't going to blow your season. But as a starter, that's problematic. You want a starter who can elevate your team. Keenum isn't that guy.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Yea, that was a nice TD to Britt. But if you look into that game as a whole, he threw for 103 yards on a day where Gurley had 80+ yards rushing, a rushing TD, and averaged over 4 yards per carry; the defense held Seattle to 17 points and scored a defensive TD; and special teams set us up nicely on our scoring drives.

While he made a nice throw, his performance in that game doesn't even begin to measure up to what you expect out of starting QB.

I don't see steady improvement. I see the same QB. He's a NFL QB. He'll make nice plays from time to time. But I see a limited guy. He has limited field vision, limited arm strength, and inconsistent accuracy. Yea, he does a nice job of avoiding turnovers. But that's mainly because he doesn't take many risks. That's awesome when he's a backup. When you lose your starter, you want a guy who isn't going to blow your season. But as a starter, that's problematic. You want a starter who can elevate your team. Keenum isn't that guy.

But, but jrry, they went into Seattle and won, for the first time in a long time, a game the Seahawks needed

He did what was asked of him, of course you realize relatively speaking he's still in his learning stage, it's not like he's a grizzled veteran like that guy taking over on Minny

 

[jrry32]

But, but jrry, they went into Seattle and won, for the first time in a long time, a game the Seahawks needed

He did what was asked of him, of course you realize relatively speaking he's still in his learning stage, it's not like he's a grizzled veteran like that guy taking over on Minny

So what? Keenum contributed little to that effort. He's the QB. He's supposed to be the most important guy on the field. The production he gave us is what you expect to get out of Adrian Peterson on a weekly basis, not a starting QB.

This is his fifth year in the NFL. He's in his late 20s. He's not in the learning stage anymore. He might improve due to experience but his limitations are his limitations.

I will state again that the Rams traded up for Goff for a reason. And there is a reason why I was so intent on the Rams drafting a QB this past off-season. Why? So the Rams wouldn't get stuck starting backup caliber QBs again. Yet, here they are.

 

[Athos]

Goff has me concerned with his multiple turnovers during the preseason, his apparent lack of play calling ability from the huddle and his poor decisions that have led to questionable passes.

I'm really glad we have Keenum as a first string QB this season. With Goff we can expect stupid decisions and more turnovers that will lose us games. With Keenum we can at least win some games.

Huh? Keenum has thrown as many likely INTs and Pick 6s as Goff if not more, that were dropped.

CK looks the same this year as he did last.

 

[PARAM]

And after Favre's last season at 13-3, Rodgers was 6-10 in that 1st year. So its ok with you if Goff doesn't start until next year, and we win only 6 games?
And curiously, why go all the way back to Rodgers when more recent examples of QB who played as rookies is prevalent? There's Cam Newton who in college didn't run anything remotely close to a pro offense, he ran the ball as much as he threw and he was ready right away throwing for 400 yards in his first 2 games? Or how about Marcus Mariota who didn't call any plays and took all his snaps from Shotgun? 1st game, perfect QB rating. Joe Flacco? All his snaps from shotgun, played at 1-aa and played right away and team made AFC championship game? RGIII? OROY and Playoffs from a spread college offense? Russell Wilson? Andrew Luck.... and on and on....
Point is, those guys weren't ready either. But the coaches got them ready as could be and let the talent which they were drafted for, come out

Well we can't really put that 6-10 on Rodgers can we? A 93.8 QBR, 4038 yds, 28 TDs 13 picks. More on the 20th ranked D, 25th ranked scoring D. But that's irrelevant. I am not okay if Goff doesn't start until next year.....unless we make the playoffs without his help. And then, I'll worry about next year, next year.

I think my point is being missed. It's not that I don't want Goff to start. I do, the sooner, the better. It's not that I like Keenum all that much. He's got moxy but not in his arm. It's not that I believe we have to win this year. My point is I believe a guy can sit to start a career (4 games, 6 games, 8 games, though I wouldn't want 12 or 16 games) and it won't hinder his development. It might even help him some. I don't believe it's a one-size-fits-all approach of "you have to play him right out of the gate or he won't develop as quickly". Eli Manning started 7 games and the Giants were in the postseason the next year, Champs in Eli's 4th year. Why wasn't Manning, with all his pedigree and preparation, ready to start in week 1? And for the great Tom Coughlin as head coach? Did it hurt the Giants?

Sure there are plenty of recent examples of kids who started week 1. Newton. Mariota. Flacco. Luck. Those last two made the postseason their rookie years. Flacco went to Conference Championship with Baltimore in 2008. Hell Mark Sanchez did as a rookie QB with the Jets in 2009. All I'm saying is I'm not going to worry, kvetch, believe we're doomed or Goff is doomed if he doesn't start week 1. He will be in there soon enough. And if he's not and he develops in spite of that....like Eli Manning, we'll probably all forget about when he started his career.

 

[dieterbrock]

That's the problem. You play to win 16 games. A lot of people will tell you that Keenum gives the Rams the best chance to win Week 1. And maybe even Weeks 1 through 4. But the problem is that over a 16 game season, he does not. Having Goff start Week 5 instead of Week 1 isn't going to make him any less of a rookie or any more experienced against NFL defenses. You're simply delaying his development.

So starting Case Keenum does not give the Rams the best chance to win over the full 16 game season, that is my contention.

Right, Goff will have the learning curve whether its during games 1-4 or 5-8 etc. The idea that sitting on the bench will prevent that is silly.
Furthermore, had he been prepped all pre season to start he'd be in a better position than he will be going forward. There really isn't going to be a situation where he plays this year that isn't a bad situation, where hes pretty much thrown to the wolves.

 

[dieterbrock]

And if he's not and he develops in spite of that....like Eli Manning, we'll probably all forget about when he started his career.

And Eli Manning is successful because they held him out?
Eli Manning situation is EXACTLY what we want to avoid.
They should have started Eli day 1 that year, they forced him in to the lineup and they were fortunate he didn't get killed.
What happened AFTER that season is irrelevant, what happened during is. The Giants started Warner over Eli for the same reasons (although Manning outplayed Warner in pre-season) and because of the play of the defense, they were winning games. Once they dropped to 5-4 that was enough of an excuse to put Manning in. It was a terrible situation. They lost 6 of their last 7 and what was once a promising season, ended up a train wreck
I cant believe ANY Ram fan would want THAT

 

[PARAM]

And Eli Manning is successful because they held him out?
Eli Manning situation is EXACTLY what we want to avoid.
They should have started Eli day 1 that year, they forced him in to the lineup and they were fortunate he didn't get killed.
What happened AFTER that season is irrelevant, what happened during is. The Giants started Warner over Eli for the same reasons (although Manning outplayed Warner in pre-season) and because of the play of the defense, they were winning games. Once they dropped to 5-4 that was enough of an excuse to put Manning in. It was a terrible situation. They lost 6 of their last 7 and what was once a promising season, ended up a train wreck
I cant believe ANY Ram fan would want THAT

This is the kind of logic I don't understand (and no, I'm not saying he's successful because they held him out. Who knows? Only Eli I would suppose):

"Should have started....'forced him' into the lineup.....fortunate he didn't get killed".
So that doesn't apply to Goff?

"What happened AFTER the season is irrelevant"
What happened after that season is COMPLETELY relevant. Are we talking about Goff's development as a career franchise QB or the Rams record in 2016? Which is more important to the Rams (and their fans)?

"They lost 6 of their last 7 and what was once a promising season ended up a train wreck"
So it would have been better to start 1-6? I can't believe the Giants season would have been any better as a result of that.

So if I'm understanding this, let's start him whether he's ready or not (and if he's not we should blame Fisher because he just didn't prepare him properly) because it's not "forcing him in" if our record is 0-0. Let's not care what happens next season.

 

[So Ram]

I disagree. He did the wrong thing. Fisher has played this game with a number of talented rookies. It's not realistic to expect a rookie to "beat out" a veteran who already knows the system and playbook. It's a 100 meter sprint to the finish and the veteran is already 50 meters there before the rookie even lines up.

And you might say that this makes it the right move to sit him. I disagree. There are a whole hell of a lot of coaches around the league who manage to have rookies come in, start from the beginning, and play well. Fisher's system creates an illusion that the rookie isn't ready. Go back and look at the preseason performances of Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, Cam Newton, and Jameis Winston. They made it seem like none of those guys were ready to start. Yet, those guys all played well as rookies. And it would have been crazy to start the veteran backups on those teams ahead of any of those guys.

Goff will get better each time he's on the field. Unfortunately, Keenum is Keenum. All Fisher has done is delay Goff's development.

Just remember that Case Keenum has been the stater from Day 1 !!

The Golden Boy will be better off from learning the system & watching. Jared Goff has got his reps with the first team."

A lot of the great ones have waited there turn. I could careless about delaying Jared Goff !! If Keenum fails then Goff has all season to play every down.

Grantit Fisher has produced the last 2 rookie of the years in The NFL .

 

[dieterbrock]

This is the kind of logic I don't understand (and no, I'm not saying he's successful because they held him out. Who knows? Only Eli I would suppose):

"Should have started....'forced him' into the lineup.....fortunate he didn't get killed".
So that doesn't apply to Goff?

"What happened AFTER the season is irrelevant"
What happened after that season is COMPLETELY relevant. Are we talking about Goff's development as a career franchise QB or the Rams record in 2016? Which is more important to the Rams (and their fans)?

"They lost 6 of their last 7 and what was once a promising season ended up a train wreck"
So it would have been better to start 1-6? I can't believe the Giants season would have been any better as a result of that.

So if I'm understanding this, let's start him whether he's ready or not (and if he's not we should blame Fisher because he just didn't prepare him properly) because it's not "forcing him in" if our record is 0-0. Let's not care what happens next season.

So you're saying that Eli was a success because he rode the pine for 7 games.
Not surprising you don't understand my logic then...

 

[Angry Ram]

That's precisely the problem. He doesn't do that. @Fatbot wrote an incredible post detailing this issue. Keenum is more of the same. He's the type of guy who isn't going to have this offense consistently scoring 20 points per game. He's the type of guy who isn't going to consistently post 230 yards of passing. He's the type of guy who isn't going to consistently produce a couple TDs per game.

No, you THINK it's a problem b/c you are hellbent on discrediting any potential positive Case Keenum brings. No one is expecting CK to throw for insane numbers. That's not his job. His is to hold the fort until Jared Goff is ready.

What fatbot said isn't true, either. He mentioned Case being a clone of Austin Davis, Shaun Hill, Kellen Clemmons. Case doesn't turn it over, and I'm basing that assessment on past results.

As Rams, those QBs had the following turnovers:

Austin Davis: 9 INTs, 5 fumbles, 3 lost.

Shaun Hill: 7 INTs, 7 fumbles, 1 lost.

Kellen Clemens: 7 INTs, 7 fumbles, 4 lost (only counting his significant playing time, these numbers get worse if you add the other 2 seasons)

Case Keenum: 1 INT, 4 fumbles, 3 lost (all 3 against Baltimore).

That's the biggest positive Case Keenum brings. He doesn't make that many mistakes.

Case doesn't keep things steady. Case provides bottom 5 QB play.

He does if he stays healthy and doesn't give games away.

He offers us a guy who isn't going to single-handedly lose a game but will not do enough to win us games without the defense, running game, and special teams winning the day.

That can be said about any team with any QB. From the best to the worst. It's a team game. That's not news.

To win with Case Keenum, the other parts of our team have to play quality football.

No shit. It gets harder with an overwhelmed rookie that could potentially be mistake prone at this point and time.

That's a problem.

Again, only YOU seem to think it is.

That's why they drafted Jared Goff. The Rams shouldn't need to be nearly perfect in every other aspect to make up for lackluster QB play.

They drafted Jared to be the QB of the future. The future isn't now. But it will be sooner rather than later.

That's why I am so outraged with this entire situation.

Sigh. Only you. I see it has a huge luxury.

Fisher has painted this team into a corner with more 7-9 bullcrap.

For you.

Frankly, I think if you asked those three teams if they want Case Keenum as their starting QB, Minnesota would be the only one that answered affirmatively.

Bullshit. SF gets Blaine Gabbert. What if Dak gets hurt? Minnesota is gonna get turnover prone Shaun Hill and a UDFA rookie.

 

[Ramatik]

Goff already went through his years of learning in college. If we're making this comparison, Goff would now be a doctor working at a hospital. I don't know how hospitals do it. Maybe they would have Goff watch their other surgeons do the job for a time before he did anything. No idea.

What do I know is that Goff isn't a doctor. He's a #1 overall NFL draft pick. Who was the last #1 overall pick at QB to not start week 1? It hasn't happened since JaWalrus Russell.

What I know is that he isn't buttering toast either.

I just don't think it's worth getting one's panties all bunched up over. He'll start when he starts. I sincerely would rather win against the 9ers in that first game. I want that win badly.

If I heard right, No #1 pick has ever won his first game opening the season or some crap. Okay, sit him one game.

Heh.