I believe in Keenum! Too early to judge Goff

[blackbart]

I said it before this is not the LA Goffs, it is the LA Rams and Fisher has to coach the team not just the new franchise QB of the future. There is a team of other players including guys who have put their time in and deserve the best chance possible to win in 2016. Fisher and Snead cannot lose the rest of the team because Goff was handed the job instead of earning it.

 

[jrry32]

I find it hard to believe that anyone (with the possible exception of yourself I guess) would even care why Goff didn't play earlier if Keenum wins. In fact, in this example I'd assume that most would believe he may have looked better later partly because he wasn't rushed into action and got more time learning and watching Keenum.

That would really depend. When I say "wins," I don't mean goes 8-0 or something. I mean like 5-4 or 4-3 or something like that. In that scenario, I do think people would question the decision if Goff comes in and plays better. Especially if we barely miss the playoffs.

 

[PARAM]

Here is a question for everyone in general that wants Goff to start now : How many games are you willing to lose in 2016 with a rookie QB (Goff) learning on the job?

I would think that's an easy answer. It doesn't really matter. It's about the future. Yet sometimes (I say sometimes, not always and not all) those same fans want Fisher gone if it's another 7-9 season. This season is about the seasoning of Goff but Fisher has to win!

If you look at guys like Carson Palmer 0 starts his rookie year (behind Kitna with the 8-8 Bengals), the team didn't regress in his 2nd year (8-8) and they went 11-5 in his third season and made the postseason. Eli Manning sat until week 11 ( 7 starts) and the Giants were in the postseason the next year, Superbowl Champs in Eli's 4th season. Nothing says they have to start right away, to have success in year 2, 3 or 4.

 

[jrry32]

No that is trusting the HC to do the right thing when the time is right.

It's also circular logic.

Please elaborate ...

Goff's ready to start because Fisher is starting him. Fisher is starting Goff because he's ready. It's circular. Fisher could start Goff even if he's not ready. But your logic here is that no matter when Fisher starts him, he's ready. Because Fisher will only start him when he's ready.

 

[jrry32]

A 7-9 QB you describe went into Seattle last year and helped guide the Rams to a win with some great plays. Case Keenum is the best driver of the Rams offense NOW....... If he falters and Goff has shown improvement, then the keys can be passed to Goff at that time.

Here is a question for everyone in general that wants Goff to start now : How many games are you willing to lose in 2016 with a rookie QB (Goff) learning on the job?

I really hate to do this because Case is the Rams starting QB, and I'm not rooting against the guy (except to the extent that I'd rather have Goff play over him). But I'm still going to say it because it's what happened. Keenum threw for 103 yards and a TD in that game. The Rams' offense scored 16 points. There isn't another franchise where that is acceptable QB play, much less laudable QB play.

How many games am I willing to lose with Goff? I'd hope we wouldn't lose a lot. But if it results in Goff developing and getting better, I'm willing to lose as many as it takes. I won't be happy about losing, but Goff's development is what will make or break this team for the next 10-15 years.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Question Jrry, do you believe starting Goff week one gives the Rams their best chance to win?

Or even the first half of the season for that matter.

I'm assuming the answer is no, he doesn't

Edit, I just read your post above, I don't think too many "job on the line". HCs will agree, much less the locker room

 

[jrry32]

Question Jrry, do you believe starting Goff week one gives the Rams their best chance to win?

Or even the first half of the season for that matter.

I'm assuming the answer is no, he doesn't

Their best chance to win Week 1? Probably not. Their best chance to win over the full 16 games? Yes. Starting Goff in Week 1 will give the Rams the best chance to win over the course of the entire season. No matter when we start him, he's going to need time to adjust. He will make rookie mistakes. I'd rather he make them early and be hitting his stride by mid-season.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Their best chance to win Week 1? Probably not. Their best chance to win over the full 16 games? Yes. Starting Goff in Week 1 will give the Rams the best chance to win over the course of the entire season. No matter when we start him, he's going to need time to adjust. He will make rookie mistakes. I'd rather he make them early and be hitting his stride by mid-season.

True, but I think Fisher believes he can win with Keenum, I know, I know I don't think
We'll have to wait long.

Damn iPhone!!!

 

[Riverumbbq]

It's also circular logic.



Goff's ready to start because Fisher is starting him. Fisher is starting Goff because he's ready. It's circular. Fisher could start Goff even if he's not ready. But your logic here is that no matter when Fisher starts him, he's ready. Because Fisher will only start him when he's ready.

LOL

A good coach is not going to try to squeeze a square peg thru a round hole. Fisher has options so long as all 3 QB's remain healthy. Fisher will start each game with the QB he feels has either won the job or is most suitably prepared to go out and get that victory. Fisher is the HC and I have to trust that he will make the right decision, he knows his stable of QB's far better than we do. Posters criticizing Fisher's ability to decide on which QB starts are not risking the best job on earth, or their livelihood, ... we are fans on a forum trying to play GM without half the information our coaching staff/front office works with. jmo.

 

[OldSchool]

Here is a question for everyone in general that wants Goff to start now : How many games are you willing to lose in 2016 with a rookie QB (Goff) learning on the job?

I don't think Goff wins fewer games than Keenum if they both start 16 that's the whole thing. This narrative people are pulling out that Keenum won us games at the end of the year is simply false and lazy box score thinking. The defense and Gurley won us games. If Keenum truly was the QB to win games he could have won the week 17 game in SF. I honestly believe that even through the bumps a rookie QB will go through he will contribute more towards the Rams winning games in 2016 than Case Keenum could.

 

[Riverumbbq]

That would really depend. When I say "wins," I don't mean goes 8-0 or something. I mean like 5-4 or 4-3 or something like that. In that scenario, I do think people would question the decision if Goff comes in and plays better. Especially if we barely miss the playoffs.

I believe the only way fans would question it is if Goff went out and played like a reckless rookie. If Fisher thinks Goff is the right man for the job while the Rams are 4-3 or 5-4 under Keenum, i'll back him. We all know who the future of this team belongs to.

 

[jrry32]

LOL

A good coach is not going to try to squeeze a square peg thru a round hole. Fisher has options so long as all 3 QB's remain healthy. Fisher will start each game with the QB he feels has either won the job or is most suitably prepared to go out and get that victory. Fisher is the HC and I have to trust that he will make the right decision, he knows his stable of QB's far better than we do. Posters criticizing Fisher's ability to decide on which QB starts are not risking the best job on earth, or their livelihood, ... we are fans on a forum trying to play GM without half the information our coaching staff/front office works with. jmo.

The last time Fisher had a top pick at QB, he cost his team a shot at the playoffs by waiting too long to start him. Let's just say that I don't have the faith you have.

Not to mention Fisher starting Langford over Donald, Davin Joseph over Greg Robinson, etc.

 

[PARAM]

I don't think Goff wins fewer games than Keenum if they both start 16 that's the whole thing. This narrative people are pulling out that Keenum won us games at the end of the year is simply false and lazy box score thinking. The defense and Gurley won us games. If Keenum truly was the QB to win games he could have won the week 17 game in SF. I honestly believe that even through the bumps a rookie QB will go through he will contribute more towards the Rams winning games in 2016 than Case Keenum could.

There's logic to both schools of thought. We still have Gurley and a stout defense. Maybe even better with Tree in the middle. So why couldn't Keenum hold the fort until Goff is a bit less lost? If we can win with Keenum's deficiencies, we can win with a rookie. And we don't need Goff to be ROY but we do need him to have a decent grasp of things. We aren't at practice or in the meetings so we really don't know the degree of "lost" Goff is in right now, right? Maybe he gets his feet wet in week 4; maybe it's week 6; maybe it's earlier or later. If we don't win with Keenum it'll probably be earlier. It we do win with Keenum (and I don't mean 5-4 or 4-3) what's the rush?

 

[bluecollarram]

The Rams ask CK to manage the game, if he throws for two hundred yards that is a huge game for him. His job is to not lose the game, no turnovers, good clock management, and hand offs are his primary job.
JG would allow the Rams to still play that gameplan but, should the team find themselves playing from behind, the whole playbook is open due to superior throwing talent.
That unfortunately isn't an option with CK.

The rookie is going to make "rookie mistakes ". I think they should let him, because the other option is simply playing NOT to lose.

Playing not to lose sounds like "7-9 Bullshit"

 

[OldSchool]

So why couldn't Keenum hold the fort until Goff is a bit less lost?

Who says he's lost right now? Who says if he is lost right now he'll get unlost holding a clip board? The more recent evidence from rookie QB's is that you put them in from the get go and they learn on the job. Mariota was just as unready for the pro game as Goff. Played from the shot gun and had plays called from the sideline with big cards. Probably made fewer adjustments at the line in college. I'm not comparing them in ability just pointing out that QB's who are deemed unready by the so called experts have been wrong before and will be wrong again.

And we don't need Goff to be ROY but we do need him to have a decent grasp of things

We don't need him to be OROY to win. I don't know if he will win even if he starts 12 14 or 16 games with what I expect Dallas to get from Elliot. We're going to win off of Gurley, Benny the other RB's along with our defense and special teams. We simply need somebody who's going to be able to take advantage occasionally when teams start to pound the box on Gurley. I'm sorry but we all saw how badly Keenum under threw Britt vs KC. Occasionally you get the defensive PI. More often that ball is intercepted. He simply doesn't have the arm strength to keep defenses honest against our run game IMO from what we've seen from him.

 

[OldSchool]

The rookie is going to make "rookie mistakes ". I think they should let him, because the other option is simply playing NOT to lose.

Exactly

 

[PARAM]

Their best chance to win Week 1? Probably not. Their best chance to win over the full 16 games? Yes. Starting Goff in Week 1 will give the Rams the best chance to win over the course of the entire season. No matter when we start him, he's going to need time to adjust. He will make rookie mistakes. I'd rather he make them early and be hitting his stride by mid-season.

At what point of Peyton's rookie season did he hit his stride? He had a QBR of 56.6 in week 17 against 4-12 Carolina. Now I realize the game is not played in a vacuum.....how do the team mates and defenses compare from the 98 Colts and the 16 Rams? I don't think there's a Marvin Harrison on our team and I like Gurley but PM had Faulk. I just don't agree Goff gives us the chance for a better 2016 record by starting week 1. I think when he a little less overmatched mentally (if in fact he is overmatched at this time and I have to figure if PM was in 98, Goff is now), he comes in and the combo of Keenum early and Goff later give us a better record than if he started week 1. I could be wrong though.

 

[Riverumbbq]

The last time Fisher had a top pick at QB, he cost his team a shot at the playoffs by waiting too long to start him. Let's just say that I don't have the faith you have.

Not to mention Fisher starting Langford over Donald, Davin Joseph over Greg Robinson, etc.

Seems Donald is doing just fine for waiting a bit. GRob wasn't ready, then later was forced because of injury to play LT when he had been playing & practicing at LG. Jake Long wasn't going anywhere else if he was healthy.
Appears Coach jrry32 has a long list of grievances with Coach Fisher. That's OK, you're entitled, Fisher's lifetime achievement for being an overall .500 coach certainly doesn't help quiet restless fans, but he is our HC and the rest of us has little say in the matter. Fisher may be walking on coals this season, a bad decision on his Keenum/Goff strategy will bring out the wolves at the Coliseum, along with the media scrutiny, ... and will make this place look like a chess club.
For now, i'll keep the faith ...

Whomever our QB, I want us to trade for a quality WR, ... enough is enough.

 

[jrry32]

Seems Donald is doing just fine for waiting a bit. GRob wasn't ready, then later was forced because of injury to play LT when he had been playing & practicing at LG. Jake Long wasn't going anywhere else if he was healthy.

Yea, Donald is doing just fine because he is a monster. That was clear even when Fisher insisted on starting Langford.

G-Rob couldn't have been less ready than Joseph at OG.

Appears Coach jrry32 has a long list of grievances with Coach Fisher. That's OK, you're entitled, Fisher's lifetime achievement for being an overall .500 coach certainly doesn't help quiet restless fans, but he is our HC and the rest of us has little say in the matter. Fisher may be walking on coals this season, a bad decision on his Keenum/Goff strategy will bring out the wolves at the Coliseum, along with the media scrutiny, ... and will make this place look like a chess club.
For now, i'll keep the faith ...

Whomever our QB, I want us to trade for a quality WR, ... enough is enough.

I do have a long list of grievances on how he handles rookie players.

I agree. It would be nice to have a quality veteran WR. I begged for us to bring one in all off-season.

At what point of Peyton's rookie season did he hit his stride? He had a QBR of 56.6 in week 17 against 4-12 Carolina. Now I realize the game is not played in a vacuum.....how do the team mates and defenses compare from the 98 Colts and the 16 Rams? I don't think there's a Marvin Harrison on our team and I like Gurley but PM had Faulk. I just don't agree Goff gives us the chance for a better 2016 record by starting week 1. I think when he a little less overmatched mentally (if in fact he is overmatched at this time and I have to figure if PM was in 98, Goff is now), he comes in and the combo of Keenum early and Goff later give us a better record than if he started week 1. I could be wrong though.

Peyton Manning:
First 4 games
81/146
55.5%
992 yards
6.8 YPA
3 TDs
11 Ints
52.1 QB Rating

Final 12 games
245/429
57.1%
2747 yards
6.4 YPA
23 TDs
17 Ints
77.7 QB Rating

I'd say he hit his stride after the first 4 games. And it only picked up from there. He put up great numbers his second year.

 

[8to12]

I really hate to do this because Case is the Rams starting QB, and I'm not rooting against the guy (except to the extent that I'd rather have Goff play over him). But I'm still going to say it because it's what happened. Keenum threw for 103 yards and a TD in that game. The Rams' offense scored 16 points. There isn't another franchise where that is acceptable QB play, much less laudable QB play.

How many games am I willing to lose with Goff? I'd hope we wouldn't lose a lot. But if it results in Goff developing and getting better, I'm willing to lose as many as it takes. I won't be happy about losing, but Goff's development is what will make or break this team for the next 10-15 years.

I respect that. I'm coming from a perspective that I have seen both Keenum and Goff run the offense in practice and in the 3 preseason games and there is big difference between the 2.
I understand your point about the offensive production in the Seattle game, but that TD to Britt was huge!