I am so Jealous of the Iggles

[KDS73]

End of story in your mind. Most of us can look at that and see the different level of coaching throughout the offseason.

Yes, the difference in coaching is obvious. But when you try to point to that as a reason for Wentz being light years ahead of Goff after only a month of training camp and two quarters of preseason football with 2nd and 3rd string players, that's a dog that won't hunt. By all accounts, Wentz was doing nothing more than "mental reps" for most of the preseason, and the guy looks like a 10 year vet out there. That's not something you can coach up in only one summer. Wentz just has/had the goods all along. He clearly has intangibles that just can't be coached or taught. I know a lot of us wanted to believe that Goff was the more NFL ready of the two, but that's a theory that has clearly been blown to bits at this point.

 

[Zaphod]

Sheesh, Wentz came from a pro style system, and that's a huge factor. If all they were worried about was who's ready sooner, they should have drafted Wentz. But this wasn't about that. I think they had Keenum and Mannion and were comfortable with drafting someone to develop.

So really, the only new information here is that our offense fell flat on it's collective face against the 49ers with Keenum at the helm causing the fans to question that decision. Whatever, I quietly wanted them to draft Wentz as what I thought to be a more prototypical fit to Fisher's system.

But you don't do that when you go all in and trade for the first overall pick, right? It's not about Fisher, you draft the future face of the franchise as they transition to a new city. And I dig that, honestly. Besides, what the freak do I know about quarterbacks.

But here's the real kicker, and you're going to have to brace yourself for this one. Even had they drafted Wentz, he'd be on the bench learning the system while Keenum plays. This isn't my version of Monty Python non sequitur "How do you know she's a witch?" logic to determine that they were both ready. I'm sure that Carson Wentz was way more capable out of the gate.

But I still think we may yet have the better quarterback, and I like tossing him in there half way through the season with an entire off season to derail what people are analyzing on tape for our star.

All that said, I'm just probably over thinking and being a homer at the same time. Down with the regime! Off with their heads! Trade Goff for a third round pick and start over!

 

[DaveFan'51]

To begin with, this isn't a hate Jared Goff thread, so let's just take that off the shelf right now.

Just considering what happened this off season for them, spending the vast amount of trade capital to move up to #2, to take the Rams leftovers. They get a kid Carson Wentz from N. Dakota State, admittedly trained in a pro system, who gets little work in PreSeason because of an injury..Then goes on to QB two wins in the NFL...The latest one is against the Bears at Soldier Field on Monday Night Football, which is hard enough for a veteran QB to do, considering it's an away game on a large stage....It's not too big for him.

Then, the Eagles recoup their first round pick by trading Sam.....This transformed their franchise, and Howie Roseman is the GM of the year. Adam Schefter, and many others, are gushing about the Eagles setting up their franchise for 10-15 years.

FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRKKKKKK!

Now we come back to Jared Goff and Les Snead....Not all Top Picks pan out, and that's not being negative, it's just reality. We knew Jared would have challenges coming from that Spread system, but he DOES have skills........It's a scary time for me, wondering if we made the wrong choice here...I may puke the first time Goff starts, because so much of our future is tied up in him...He HAS TO PAN OUT..HE FARKING HAS TO! Snead, you will not have a career in football if this doesn't work out, imo.

OK! Not a bad move on their part! BUT! Look who they've Beaton Cleveland! and Chicago! Two Teams that Stink! And they Play in the NFC Least! They will probably Win the Division!!:mrburnsevil:

 

[bluecoconuts]

Also you're envious, not jealous.

 

[jrry32]

I am jealous that they were able to get a first round pick back after trading theirs away. I wish the Rams had been able to do that with Keenum, but nobody would take that deal. I would have taken the rumored second for him and ran with Goff.

I am also jealous that the Eagles have an idea how to run an offense.

But I am not jealous that they took Wentz and Snead took Goff. I think Goff will be just fine in time.

We got offered a 2nd for Keenum and didn't take it? What?

 

[jetplt67]

View: https://twitter.com/ChrisWesseling/status/778040408408412160/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw


Any more questions on why Wentz was ready or able to do what he has the first two weeks and Goff isn't? This should answer all your concerns.

I agree. It all starts with Fisher, if he wanted an NFL caliber offense he could have had it by now. But I have spoken about it ad nauseam. Tired of the fish

 

[StealYoGurley]

Lets relax a little bit on the Wentz hype train. He didn't play in the preseason so there is literally no NFL tape on him. To top that off he played the worst team in the league in the Browns and one of the worst in the bears.

Lets be patient with both of these guys still alot we don't know. Sam Bradford was Rookie of the year folks

 

[OldSchool]

Yes, the difference in coaching is obvious. But when you try to point to that as a reason for Wentz being light years ahead of Goff after only a month of training camp and two quarters of preseason football with 2nd and 3rd string players, that's a dog that won't hunt. By all accounts, Wentz was doing nothing more than "mental reps" for most of the preseason, and the guy looks like a 10 year vet out there. That's not something you can coach up in only one summer. Wentz just has/had the goods all along. He clearly has intangibles that just can't be coached or taught. I know a lot of us wanted to believe that Goff was the more NFL ready of the two, but that's a theory that has clearly been blown to bits at this point.

Got it coaching makes no difference it's all about what a rookie brings to the table. Who wouldn't look amazing playing the Bears and Browns.

 

[LACHAMP46]

I like the envious description...Jealousy is an ugly emotion...it has caused some terrible things out here in my city....but as for football, we're bigger than that...This topic won't die...until Goff plays...and plays well... Just like @-X- & @jrry32 said....
I'm a lil envious...of Jacoby Brissett, Wentz, Cody Kessler, Dak P. and all the other 3rd string rookies that for some damn reason can play this year, but our #1 can't even get on the field...Yeah, they were "forced" into action due to injury...If Kessler & Brissett drive their teams to touchdowns in their games....My emotion of envious will turn to disgust...Cause like @Athos said, you learn by doing...reps on the side, watching, practice DO NOT ACCURATELY SIMULATE A REAL FUCKING GAME....HENCE, learning/growth is stagnated...

Other than this QB debate, I gotta say I am jealous of the last 3 season under Kelly where the Eagles made the playoffs, had a dynamic offense and had a winning record. Also, jealous that the owner acted decisively and moved forward after he realized Kelly wasn't going to win him a Superbowl, so he changes back to Roseman as GM, hires a new coach, trades up to get the right QB and is 2-0 to start the season. Meanwhile, we are averaging 1.1pts per quarter, have no idea when the future will begin at QB and are about to reward our GM and HC with a contract extension!!

Philly don't play huh?????
Hold off on that contract extension talk....please...until ink meets paper...geez, Stan is into money making....he's gotta keep the carrot of the contract in front of these guys:icare:...Last weeks game was the fastest in-season adjustment of the Fisher era...and it was wonderful....:yess:

 

[BonifayRam]

Right now it is clear that Wentz is far ahead of Goff by a long long way ...at this time. If we can come out being 4-3 going into the bye then we may expect Goff to ride the sideline for a longer period of time....not a bad thing for Goff & his future. If things go wrong here with Case then I would suggest even that Mannion might be a short range fix over Goff.

I do not want Goff hitting the field when things offensively are falling apart. Let Mannion & Keenum take the body damage, better than subjecting Goff to such damage physically or mentally. Now if the game is well in hand where the dynamic's are low & a win looks well in hand lets get Goff on the field to get the experience. The ideal situation is where the offense is working smooth & being productive & we are winning slide in Goff for period of time with sound measure of stability around him.

As the season wears on & our three rookie WR's & two rookie TE's are coming on getting better with a good OL run game, Goff can utilize this positivity to launch himself in as a starting long term QB for this Ram team.

 

[LosAngelesRams]

Lets follow their lead, trade Case for a bag of potato chips and start Goff.

 

[Rambitious1]

To begin with, this isn't a hate Jared Goff thread, so let's just take that off the shelf right now.

Just considering what happened this off season for them, spending the vast amount of trade capital to move up to #2, to take the Rams leftovers. They get a kid Carson Wentz from N. Dakota State, admittedly trained in a pro system, who gets little work in PreSeason because of an injury..Then goes on to QB two wins in the NFL...The latest one is against the Bears at Soldier Field on Monday Night Football, which is hard enough for a veteran QB to do, considering it's an away game on a large stage....It's not too big for him.

Then, the Eagles recoup their first round pick by trading Sam.....This transformed their franchise, and Howie Roseman is the GM of the year. Adam Schefter, and many others, are gushing about the Eagles setting up their franchise for 10-15 years.

FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRKKKKKK!

Now we come back to Jared Goff and Les Snead....Not all Top Picks pan out, and that's not being negative, it's just reality. We knew Jared would have challenges coming from that Spread system, but he DOES have skills........It's a scary time for me, wondering if we made the wrong choice here...I may puke the first time Goff starts, because so much of our future is tied up in him...He HAS TO PAN OUT..HE FARKING HAS TO! Snead, you will not have a career in football if this doesn't work out, imo.

I'm not jealous at all.
And no offense, but two games vs less than stellar opponents - do not mean Wentz is the savior of the Eagles.
We'll see if Wentz works out or not......still don't know and whether or not Goff will work out.
Both of them will take time and we will see if they work out. IMHO it's just way too soon to be crowning Wentz or panicking about Goff.

 

[12intheBox]

If I were an Eagles fan - as happy as I'd be - I'd be pretty worried that CW is going to get himself killed before long.

 

[thirteen28]

If we didn't have Goff, I would be. He will be fine eventually, his arm talent is just too much for him not to be. Do I wish he had better offensive coaches though? Yes (with the caveat that I hope I can eat my words on that someday).

What would make me jealous over the Eagles and Wentz? Being a Browns fan. They could have stood pat and had the guy, now they are down 2 QB's and getting ready to start Cody Kessler. Man it must suck to be them.

 

[Selassie I]

The ONLY thing I might consider myself a little envious of when it comes to the eagles... and I mean the only thing... is their schedule allowed them to start out against Cleveland and Chicago.

Other than that... fuck them.

 

[FrantikRam]

I don't think you learn much sitting on the sidelines.

As my physics prof keeps saying, you don't learn all that much with lectures. Not practical hands on things at any rate.

At a certain point you're just memorizing. You want things to become instinctual. Know the process by doing it over and over to get the answer.

Or... Making your snaps and reads, etc, "the process" in actua games and having certain routes and chemistry with WRs, ie, knowing what they'll do and then executing.

You learn by applying knowledge in a realistic setting.

The Rodgers example is a logical fallacy of a sort because you only have the end result of sitting. You have no idea the result if he starts earlier. And learning from a HOF is vastly different than a career JAG backup QB with a noodle arm. The only thing Goff is learning from Keemun is what not to do and he could do that on the field.

I disagree about how much can be learned. I think all rookies learn quite a bit just from being on a team and not playing. The games are the most important part, of course - but they only actually represent 3 hours out of a near 60 hour work week these guys put in - and for those other 57 hours, Goff is soaking everything in. Rookies have to learn how to practice, prepare, be an NFL player, etc.

Now, sure, plenty of guys play as rookies - and plenty of those guys have busted. The opposite is also true, and if we're being honest, it's probably a player by player basis. Fisher is historically slow to bring rookies along, which sucks. But there is a good chance that Goff really does need time - and it's not like we play a weak schedule or have a ton of talent around him, which are indicators that maybe he should sit and learn before taking the reigns.

Now this is just my opinion obviously, but forget Rodgers - look at every starting QB in the NFL and tell me which list you would rather have:

Wilson/Luck/Ryan/Stafford/Bradford/Tannehil/Cam/Gabbert/Winston/Mariota/Alex Smith/Carr/Roethilsberger/Dalton/Flacco/Wentz


Rodgers/Brady/Romo/Brees/Bridgewater/Palmer/Osweiler/Cutler/Manning/Cousins/Bortles/Semian/Rivers/Taylor/Fitzpatrick/Goff



I'm sure I missed some but do you know what difference in these two lists are? QBs that started within their first two career games, and QBs that did not. Take away Rodgers and Brady if you want - I could still argue that I am happier with Goff's list, but it's close. Including Rodgers and Brady, our list has 4 of the top 6 QBs in the NFL.

 

[blackbart]

End of story in your mind. Most of us can look at that and see the different level of coaching throughout the offseason.

But it does not take nto account the starting point for each of the QBs.

 

[Loyal]

As my son would say in prototypical sarcastic fashion:

"Don worry. Its all gon be k."

Years from now none of this will even be remembered. Nobody will harken back to the time where Goff spent a half dozen games on the bench or how Wentz started his first two games in his rookie year. We'll be too busy comparing these guys to Elway and Marino and Kelly.

I like that X..I wanna believe that.

But how often do three to four franchise QB's come out of one draft class? I think Wentz and Prescott are well along that path, and Goff and Paxton Lynch have yet to play in real games. There are always highly graded QB's that don't pan out in every draft, therefore it seems that in a game QB musical chairs, Prescott and Wentz have found chairs and Goff and Lynch are diving for the last one.....If there is one.

 

[WvuIN02]

Now this is just my opinion obviously, but forget Rodgers - look at every starting QB in the NFL and tell me which list you would rather have:

Wilson/Luck/Ryan/Stafford/Bradford/Tannehil/Cam/Gabbert/Winston/Mariota/Alex Smith/Carr/Roethilsberger/Dalton/Flacco/Wentz


Rodgers/Brady/Romo/Brees/Bridgewater/Palmer/Osweiler/Cutler/Manning/Cousins/Bortles/Semian/Rivers/Taylor/Fitzpatrick/Goff



I'm sure I missed some but do you know what difference in these two lists are? QBs that started within their first two career games, and QBs that did not. Take away Rodgers and Brady if you want - I could still argue that I am happier with Goff's list, but it's close. Including Rodgers and Brady, our list has 4 of the top 6 QBs in the NFL.

Most of the guys on the 2nd list were guys who not drafted to be the guy and were never intended to be the starter like Goff. They were backups who those teams lucked into when injuries happened (Poor Bledsoe -- Brady being obviously the biggest one along with Romo). You could also make a list of all the guys who like them, sat, and never did anything in their careers. And that list would be 100x as long. You then have guys who likely would have started were there not HoF QBs on the roster already, like Favre and Kurt Warner in Eli's case.

 

[Loyal]

Lets relax a little bit on the Wentz hype train. He didn't play in the preseason so there is literally no NFL tape on him. To top that off he played the worst team in the league in the Browns and one of the worst in the bears.

Lets be patient with both of these guys still alot we don't know. Sam Bradford was Rookie of the year folks

You are right that the Browns and the Bears are not doing well this year, but you can't ignore Monday Night Football..Hail, when was the last time WE won MNF? No matter WHO the opponent is, going to another homefield and playing on that stage and winning is impressive...especially for a rookie..At least that's my opinion.