How to turn an offense around

[jrry32]

Is it possible to trade for the Browns TE Gary Barnidge? I like how he's playing this year.

Nope. Browns just re-signed him. Not going to trade a guy they just gave a contract extension to. Not even the Browns would do that.

Do you think Goff or Lynch would go before Bridgwater, Carr, Bortles, Manziel, or Garoppolo? Because I dont. They might have gotten ahead of Garoppolo.

Bulger was a probowl QB because he had 3 borderline hall of famers at the skill position in a system that produced stats. Even with those weapons he still never threw 25 TDS in a single season.

Definitely yes except for possibly Bortles.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Well there's the great divide between many Rams fans and NFL fans in general isn't it? Some believe that if you have a great QB then it doesn't matter who he has around him on offense. He will elevate the rest of the offense to a higher level. So yeah, we must get one in the draft no matter what.

Others believe that you can have a great QB but if he's not getting blocking or the receivers can't get open or the running backs are crappy, then it doesn't matter how good he is because the team will lose. I'm in that camp.

Quite frankly, I believe that the main problem with that divide is the failure to recognize that there really aren't that many "great" QBs in the NFL in the first place.

In fact, one could probably argue that 1/2 of the league doesn't even have a good one. Just solid at best.

 

[FRO]

Quite frankly, I believe that the main problem with that divide is the failure to recognize that there really aren't that many "great" QBs in the NFL in the first place.

In fact, one could probably argue that 1/2 of the league doesn't even have a good one. Just solid at best.

Totally agree and that's why you must stack the offense with talent around the QB. Not many QBs would succeed with our current talent. Foles has been horrible, don't get me wrong, but our supporting cast is bad.

 

[Prime Time]

Quite frankly, I believe that the main problem with that divide is the failure to recognize that there really aren't that many "great" QBs in the NFL in the first place.

In fact, one could probably argue that 1/2 of the league doesn't even have a good one. Just solid at best.

A very good observation. The thing is that the Rams didn't need a "great" QB this season. We just needed a game manager who didn't impede the offense. Unfortunately that didn't happen for various reasons, some Foles fault and others not.

 

[FRO]

A very good observation. The thing is that the Rams didn't need a "great" QB this season. We just needed a game manager who didn't impede the offense. Unfortunately that didn't happen for various reasons, some Foles fault and others not.

And to be fair to Foles it wasn't 100% on him. The line was poor and the receivers weren't any good. We will rebuild.

 

[-X-]

I look at it like this. If every single player on offense was up for free agency right now, who would you be pissed that got away?

Anyone besides Gurley?

Anyone?

Buehler?

Buehler?

Buehler?

 

[Memphis Ram]

A very good observation. The thing is that the Rams didn't need a "great" QB this season. We just needed a game manager who didn't impede the offense. Unfortunately that didn't happen for various reasons, some Foles fault and others not.

To win some games perhaps. But, IMO, unless or until the defense became or becomes elite, a game manager still isn't good enough to make a good playoff run.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I look at it like this. If every single player on offense was up for free agency right now, who would you be pissed that got away?

Anyone besides Gurley?

Anyone?

Buehler?

Buehler?

Buehler?

At the same time, I believe that the top 3 offenses in the NFL belong to the Cardinals, Steelers, and Patriots, to date. And if I were a fan of those teams, there isn't anyone besides Palmer, Roethlisberger, or Brady that I would be pissed off for getting away. Now, I surely wouldn't want to lose Fitzgerald, Brown, or Gronkowski, but I'd like my chances a helluva better of replacing them with incoming free agents / draft choices. Especially, when I've seen my offense produce and my team win games without a couple of them (injuries) in the past already.

 

[snackdaddy]

Wasn't it Fisher who said "if you think we need a receiver you know nothing about this team"?

I think he meant to say "If you know we need a receiver you know plenty about this team".

 

[Memphis Ram]

Wasn't it Fisher who said "if you think we need a receiver you know nothing about this team"?

If so, he might have been right. People blame WRs for poor QB play, but it works the other way around, too. Antonio Brown is almost unstoppable when Roethlisberger is playing. But, he comes down to earth rather quickly when he's out. I noticed the same with Larry Fitzgerald with and without Warner / Palmer, too.

It's a shame, but it's still possible that the Rams WRs are good enough to win games with if they ever had a QB worth a darn.

 

[Robocop]

Maybe a few spots higher but he still would have been a 3rd round pick. He wasn't going ahead of Bortles, Bridgewater, Carr, Garoppolo, and Manziel.

What has he shown to convince anyone he can be a damn good QB? You don't pass on talented QBs because you think your 3rd round guy might be good when he's shown nothing on the field and hasn't been able to earn the starting job over suck and suckier.

To the level of Bulger? Bulger was a Pro Bowl QB and an arguable top 10 QB in the NFL during his prime. That's a pretty damn high bar to set.

You're right. We do need to get serious. Passing on talented QBs for Mannion isn't getting serious. If Mannion is as good as you say, he'll earn the job. And frankly, it would be doing us a favor if he did. The longer you can develop a first round QB before playing him, the better.

Bulger being completely underrated by some Rams fans is ridiculous. I have the most respect for that gunslinging Mountainer tough as hell like our current WV receivers. Bulger and Jackson carried that team for years with a top offense and shit defense never winning a season. A guy can only take so many hits in the end finishing a former pro bowler ending as a backup. same as SJax both had so much more potential... what a fucking shame. Now we have that problem on the flip side of the ball. depressingly ironic huh.

 

[snackdaddy]

The bottom line is, Fisher built a very bad offense. He's got a left tackle that ranks at or near the bottom in key areas. A guy who's looking closer to bust than the cornerstone LT you would expect from a number two overall. He finally realized the line needed something and just started using higher picks for it. What he shoulda done was pick a decent to good lineman in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th round each year to slowly transition them. Instead, he went all in in year 4 and has mostly rookies starting. The results should not be surprising.

He traded up in the first round to get a gimmick player. Don't get me wrong, Tavon's an exciting player. But he's not the kind of receiver who can line up outside on 3rd down, run a good route and make a tough catch for a first down. Thats not his thing. Plus, those kind of guys can be found past the upper first round.

With the first pick of the 2nd round he drafted a raw prospect from a small school in Quick. A prospect that has disappeared on game days much more often than he's shown up. And its year 4 for him. Yeah, he appeared like he was figuring it out the first 7 games last year. Be he looks like he's back to square one now. What, does he have to be retrained being out so long? He forgot how to be a receiver again? Will it take another 3 years?

And now, we have the worst starting quarterback in the league. He's finally benched. But how does a guy go from a season like 2013 to the 56th rated passer in the league this year? Is it the supporting cast? The coaching? Both? Since the Green Bay game he's gotten progressively worse with each passing game. Finally culminating in a 3 point effort. One more game woulda been a shutout.

We started with so much promise. A team on the rise. Undefeated within the division. Now we're looking like that 1-15 team in 2009. Guys like Null and Boller look better than Foles to me. I have no idea if it will get better with Keenum. But it would be hard to imagine it getting worse.

 

[FRO]

I look at it like this. If every single player on offense was up for free agency right now, who would you be pissed that got away?

Anyone besides Gurley?

Anyone?

Buehler?

Buehler?

Buehler?

Only Gurley. Some would say Tavon, but I won't. While his big play ability is nice, his below average WR play doesn't help the offense on every snap. I think outside of RB all our other positions are below average. Harsh, but true.

 

[FRO]

At the same time, I believe that the top 3 offenses in the NFL belong to the Cardinals, Steelers, and Patriots, to date. And if I were a fan of those teams, there isn't anyone besides Palmer, Roethlisberger, or Brady that I would be pissed off for getting away. Now, I surely wouldn't want to lose Fitzgerald, Brown, or Gronkowski, but I'd like my chances a helluva better of replacing them with incoming free agents / draft choices. Especially, when I've seen my offense produce and my team win games without a couple of them (injuries) in the past already.

I completely disagree. Fitz, Brown, and Gronk aren't random players that can be replaced. They are tops at their respective positions. I would totally be heated if my team let one of them get away.

 

[FRO]

The bottom line is, Fisher built a very bad offense. He's got a left tackle that ranks at or near the bottom in key areas. A guy who's looking closer to bust than the cornerstone LT you would expect from a number two overall. He finally realized the line needed something and just started using higher picks for it. What he shoulda done was pick a decent to good lineman in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th round each year to slowly transition them. Instead, he went all in in year 4 and has mostly rookies starting. The results should not be surprising.

He traded up in the first round to get a gimmick player. Don't get me wrong, Tavon's an exciting player. But he's not the kind of receiver who can line up outside on 3rd down, run a good route and make a tough catch for a first down. Thats not his thing. Plus, those kind of guys can be found past the upper first round.

With the first pick of the 2nd round he drafted a raw prospect from a small school in Quick. A prospect that has disappeared on game days much more often than he's shown up. And its year 4 for him. Yeah, he appeared like he was figuring it out the first 7 games last year. Be he looks like he's back to square one now. What, does he have to be retrained being out so long? He forgot how to be a receiver again? Will it take another 3 years?

And now, we have the worst starting quarterback in the league. He's finally benched. But how does a guy go from a season like 2013 to the 56th rated passer in the league this year? Is it the supporting cast? The coaching? Both? Since the Green Bay game he's gotten progressively worse with each passing game. Finally culminating in a 3 point effort. One more game woulda been a shutout.

We started with so much promise. A team on the rise. Undefeated within the division. Now we're looking like that 1-15 team in 2009. Guys like Null and Boller look better than Foles to me. I have no idea if it will get better with Keenum. But it would be hard to imagine it getting worse.

Can't argue with this.

 

[jrry32]

If so, he might have been right. People blame WRs for poor QB play, but it works the other way around, too. Antonio Brown is almost unstoppable when Roethlisberger is playing. But, he comes down to earth rather quickly when he's out. I noticed the same with Larry Fitzgerald with and without Warner / Palmer, too.

It's a shame, but it's still possible that the Rams WRs are good enough to win games with if they ever had a QB worth a darn.

I agree. But it would help a future QB if we had better pass catchers. Especially when a QB is young.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I completely disagree. Fitz, Brown, and Gronk aren't random players that can be replaced. They are tops at their respective positions. I would totally be heated if my team let one of them get away.

I figured we'd disagree. Like I said, I wouldn't want to lose any of them, but I've seen each of their QBs light it up without them. Haven't seen it the other way around though.

 

[jrry32]

I look at it like this. If every single player on offense was up for free agency right now, who would you be pissed that got away?

Anyone besides Gurley?

Anyone?

Buehler?

Buehler?

Buehler?

Austin. Maybe Havenstein, Brown, and Robinson. Gotta see how well they do. I also like Kendricks on a cheap deal. Same with Benny and Tre.

 

[snackdaddy]

I look at it like this. If every single player on offense was up for free agency right now, who would you be pissed that got away?

Anyone besides Gurley?

Anyone?

Buehler?

Buehler?

Buehler?

We have guys slated to be free agents after the season on both sides of the ball. Some fans consider a few of them important to bring back. But a lot of these guys have been part of a team that has gotten progressively worse every year of the Fisher era. They're likely to finish the season 4-12 and going back to last year, losing 15 of 19. Looking at it that way, how much worse could it get if we lost all of our potential free agents? How hard would it be to improve on a 4-12 team?

 

[lockdnram21]

Totally agree and that's why you must stack the offense with talent around the QB. Not many QBs would succeed with our current talent. Foles has been horrible, don't get me wrong, but our supporting cast is bad.

They have been bad but at times they have looked decent and he's been the problem

 

[RAGRam]

If so, he might have been right. People blame WRs for poor QB play, but it works the other way around, too. Antonio Brown is almost unstoppable when Roethlisberger is playing. But, he comes down to earth rather quickly when he's out. I noticed the same with Larry Fitzgerald with and without Warner / Palmer, too.

It's a shame, but it's still possible that the Rams WRs are good enough to win games with if they ever had a QB worth a darn.

I like how the argument changes depending on convenience of argument. We've spent the last few years arguing that Bradford isn't really bad, it's just his supporting cast. Now the supporting cast isn't really bad it's just the QB.

 

[jrry32]

I like how the argument changes depending on convenience of argument. We've spent the last few years arguing that Bradford isn't really bad, it's just his supporting cast. Now the supporting cast isn't really bad it's just the QB.

Feel like I have to point out that both of these arguments can be true and that Bradford hasn't played for this team since 2013. Guys like Gibson and Givens actually looked like solid WRs with Bradford in 2012. Amendola always looked good with Bradford. And for as much shit as people give Bradford, look at his stats in 2013...look at the stats of our starting QBs since his injury.

And Bradford isn't a great NFL QB. He's simply a starting caliber one.