How much of a difference does having an elite guard make?

[jrry32]

But they thought Janikowski was elite. And the "full time starter" bit is new, but we'll go with it. Does this mean you're also against the picks of Mack and Barr since they wouldn't be three-down players for us? Just wondering.

Barr? I don't want him. But no, I'm not because they are 3 down starters. Both are capable of playing DE in the nickel and dime packages.

The full time starter bit is new...but I figured it wouldn't be necessary to argue such because it's clearly comparing apples to oranges. Nobody considers specialists in the same light when talking about prospects.

But even though we disagree on whether different positions are on different tiers (apparently), I will say that if the Rams believe Robinson or Matthews are elite, and Watkins is not, they should take Robinson or Matthews. Very good or worse is a different story though.

We don't. But we do disagree on how much of a difference it makes. And how the tiers are ordered.

But for me, an elite (full time starter) is worth whatever it takes. I would give up a top 3 pick for a guy like Larry Allen or Steve Hutchinson or Will Shields without thinking twice.

 

[RamFan503]

You only get so many draft choices and so many salary cap dollars. A GM has to decide what areas to spend that capital to get elite talent in in order to achieve the best results.

Glad you agree. So which O-lineman do you think we're taking first?

 

[Boffo97]

Glad you agree. So which O-lineman do you think we're taking first?

Yankey, after trading up from our Rd. 2 pick (or with 26 if we can get that from Cleveland).

And thanks for clarifying your position, @jrry32 . I try to get what other people are actually thinking straight rather than make assumptions. Don't always succeed, but I try.

 

[blackbart]

Since there's no way to tell what "it" is in your message I can only presume that this is an attempt to flame rather than discuss.

Fellow Rams fans who simply have a different opinion than you aren't the enemy, you know.

It was a joke relax

a way to keep the goalpost moving around while peppering in silly things like "Watkins won't protect Sam!"

 

[Boffo97]

It was a joke relax

a way to keep the goalpost moving around while peppering in silly things like "Watkins won't protect Sam!"

Thanks for clarifying... but that WAS the truth.

 

[RamFan503]

So back when Oakland selected Sebastian Janikowski with a 1st round pick, do you feel they were correct to do so as they obviously felt Janikowski was elite?

You're going to use Al Davis as your litmus test? Really?

 

[blackbart]

Thanks for clarifying... but that WAS the truth.

LOL its all good Rams Bro, like you said we all want the same thing a better Rams team

 

[RamFan503]

CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!

 

[RamFan503]

Pardon my french but all else is fucking meaningless. One goal, SB Champions! All else is want to be shit. Maybe I'm alone here. WHAT SAY U RAM FANS?!!!!!!

 

[blackbart]

Well Stu yes that would be the ultimate end of the drought but after the last ten years I would be pretty happy with a run into the playoffs

 

[RamFan503]

Well Stu yes that would be the ultimate end of the drought but after the last ten years I would be pretty happy with a run into the playoffs

Happy-ish here. I spent a lot of years with teams that went to the playoffs. Consider myself hell bent on a championship. In forty-something years I have had but one. I want and am due (in my not so humble opinion) another CHAMPIONSHIP! Gawt damit! Seriously though. If we can get through this division on top - which I think is totally possible - we can win it all. And as much as I would be kinda ok with making it to the playoffs, once you do, you are good enough to win it all. So CHAMPIONSHIP or bust. And you KNOW Fish thinks the same thing. We're due. We're young. We're ready. Let's do this thing.

 

[RamFan503]

Well Stu yes that would be the ultimate end of the drought but after the last ten years I would be pretty happy with a run into the playoffs

Oh - BTW - no fucking way "peace" I want nothing else but a SB Championship. We have some big time pieces. Our team will accept nothing else. Neither should the fans.

 

[iced]

Well, I won't get it because it's not accurate. The only games "down the stretch" where they performed badly were the second Seattle game...without Jake Long and Rodger Saffold forced to play LT and the Arizona game.

Actually I thought a lot of the games had a lot of pretty subpar play from the interior, but mainly from LG and RG positions (when saffold was out).. That's just my opinion, but i seem to always remember Dahl getting beat inside and failing to really drive blockers... same issues with the LG rotation. They just weren't consistent

 

[jrry32]

Actually I thought a lot of the games had a lot of pretty subpar play from the interior, but mainly from LG and RG positions (when saffold was out).. That's just my opinion, but i seem to always remember Dahl getting beat inside and failing to really drive blockers... same issues with the LG rotation. They just weren't consistent

We're talking about the 6 games where Saffold was at RG.

 

[Angry Ram]

Yes. I think it makes a world of difference. Watching Steve Hutchinson blow open holes back in the day, it was a major difference. Hell, Rodger Saffold, who isn't Steve Hutchinson, made a VERY noticeable difference in comparison to Harvey Dahl.

No shit, I've said over and over again head to head, there is a difference.

A good player can get the job done...but getting the job done isn't enough. Elite players change games. They impact games in meaningful ways.

Which can be overlooked when any given game ends. That is the whole point of my argument and thte OP.



[QUOTE}In shambles? We had one of the NFL's best running games during that stretch of 6 games with Saffold at RG. Our offense did quite well. The OL was not in shambles. That's revisionist history.[/QUOTE]

Yup. Jake Long, out for the year. Scott Wells, out for the year. Harvey Dahl gets hurt and loses his starting job. Rodger Saffold, in and out of the lineup. It's a wreck, and that's why there's all this talk about getting Greg Robinson, Jake Matthews, and a guard or to. Which, going back to the OP they can get in the 2nd or 3rd rounds.

Pointing out the flaws in the "wins" argument.

Wins? What?...again, IMO it's positions like guard, safety, OLB. Not highly regarded ones. Now it's you bringing in things that have nothing to do w/ my opinion.

Guard, safety, OLB, hell I can through in DT in there too.

You don't necessarily have to have an "elite" guy as opposed to be a really guy. That's all.

 

[jrry32]

No crap, I've said over and over again head to head, there is a difference. You don't necessarily have to have an "elite" guy as opposed to be a really guy. That's all.

You don't technically need anything. Seattle won games with garbage at LT. The Rams won games with Kellen Clemens at QB.

The point of the matter is that elite players make a large difference in comparison to good. They have major impacts on the game. At every full time position. Which is what the thread is asking.

 

[Memphis Ram]

You could say this exact same thing, word for word precisely, about any position in the NFL. So... what is the point exactly?

 

[scifiman]

Yes it looks like the question for the poll is not logical whereas the title is more fitting for a poll. I had to answer yes to the poll logically as of course as others have stated it is quite obvious that an elite guard would help an offense more than a good one would.
I guess the real question is this. Is drafting an elite guard high make him an elite guard in the nfl. And what is the highest pick you would use to do so? I would assume we would use our top pick it would be for a offensive tackle who could be elite. Guards can be made (just look at Saffold) and those types can be found later in the draft. If we draft an OT he will be put on the right side and fill in on the left when needed. With injuries nowadays you almost have to have the linemen be able to play the other positions like center and guard. A versatile line and depth is the key to winning. Plus having fresh bodies in the 4th quarter wearing the defense down.

 

[Angry Ram]

You don't technically need anything. Seattle won games with garbage at LT. The Rams won games with Kellen Clemens at QB.

The point of the matter is that elite players make a large difference in comparison to good. They have major impacts on the game. At every full time position. Which is what the thread is asking.

Again you are bringing up positions that are highly regarded. I didn't.

And no, the thread is the difference b/w an elite guard and a really good one. Which I think there isn't a big one, at that position, through the course of games. That's my final word...you obviously disagree, which is fine, but I'm not gonna be going around this never ending argument again.

 

[Boffo97]

You're going to use Al Davis as your litmus test? Really?

Not really, since the point was that I disagreed with selecting a kicker (or certain other positions) with a 1st rounder, even if they were elite.

Maybe a better question would have been whether or not you'd draft an elite Center with a top 10 pick. I wouldn't.