Hill Down the Stretch

[RamFan503]

I just rewatched the game. I've got to say, Hill was damn good. Dude was under pressure all game and made some really really good passes. Some were dropped and many great plays were called back.

It also dawned on me why a lot of people MIGHT be thinking he makes a lot of bad passes. He throws a TON of timing routes. If the receiver doesn't make it to the right spot on time, or the defender catches up, it looks like a bad pass. SB and AD don't throw a lot of timing routes so it's not what we're used to seeing.

Good examples are the TD passes to Bailey. The one that got called back that Bailey caught behind the defender's back, Hill released that ball when Bailey was still a yard off the line of scrimmage. Bailey got to where he needed to be and the ball placement and timing were right on. The defender just caught up with him. The second one looks like this arching weak lob but is a timing route. Bailey is just entering the endzone when Hill releases. He HAD to put the lob on it to get it to be in the right spot at the right time. It was perfect.

The second reason is that Hill throws the ball away a lot under pressure by overthrowing the covered receiver. The ball almost always goes high out of bounds or over the covered receivers head to land in the open field. These are smart throws. It's almost always when he's about to be sacked and he's still in the pocket. He avoids the sack and the penalty.

If you re-watch the game with this in mind, is he about to be sacked or this a timing route, his entire game has a different light to it

IMHO, these are the reasons for the Rams success in avoiding the issues AD had. Hill doesn't scramble much. Instead he releases very quickly and throws a timing pass or throws it away. When he does scramble, he's pretty damn good.

We also need to remember that the Chargers are the #7 passing D and earned those interceptions. They were both heads up plays where the defender was stalking the route and came from the opposite side of the receiver.

We'll see how Hill finishes the season, but I agree, I think we have a keeper. I think if people watched with these points in mind, they would change their opinion on Hill.

Well I watched it a short time back and replayed most of the throws 2 - 3 times. Aside from the TD pass to Sted (the one that wasn't called back) I came away with the same perception. Originally, I thought the TD pass to Sted hung up like a kite but afterward, saw that it was really a pretty good throw with just a little added loft. I get what you're saying about timing routes and all. I just don't think the timing was as good as you are alluding to and the defender in some cases was able to make up ground from a weak pass.

Anyway, no big deal. He's QBing our team right now so - Go Shaun Hill!!!

 

[RamFan503]

That's true. He's under no obligation to redo his contract here. I do think that he would feel obligated to help out the Rams though if/when they present him with the option of redoing it or finding another team. Not that they would approach him that way. The wildcard is his agents. Dogra and Condon are kind of aggressive.

I don't know why but I just get the feeling Sam will try to push his agents to get a deal done with the Rams. I'm sure he is not going to just bend over but I think Sam likes this team in almost every respect. Ala William Hayes - I am betting Sam will take a bit less than others are willing to offer so he can remain a Ram.

 

[RamzFanz]

Well I watched it a short time back and replayed most of the throws 2 - 3 times. Aside from the TD pass to Sted (the one that wasn't called back) I came away with the same perception. Originally, I thought the TD pass to Sted hung up like a kite but afterward, saw that it was really a pretty good throw with just a little added loft. I get what you're saying about timing routes and all. I just don't think the timing was as good as you are alluding to and the defender in some cases was able to make up ground from a weak pass.

Anyway, no big deal. He's QBing our team right now so - Go Shaun Hill!!!

That's the thing, right? You can't tell. Did Hill throw soft or was the receiver early or did the receiver fail to shake the defender. Timing routes are great for defeating a pass rush but are also vulnerable to the INT because you have no idea what the situation is going to be when the ball lands.

 

[CGI_Ram]

I don't know why but I just get the feeling Sam will try to push his agents to get a deal done with the Rams. I'm sure he is not going to just bend over but I think Sam likes this team in almost every respect. Ala William Hayes - I am betting Sam will take a bit less than others are willing to offer so he can remain a Ram.

I tend to think he works a deal too. We might have to add a year, but that's fine with me.

 

[mr.stlouis]

I just rewatched the game. I've got to say, Hill was damn good. Dude was under pressure all game and made some really really good passes. Some were dropped and many great plays were called back.

It also dawned on me why a lot of people MIGHT be thinking he makes a lot of bad passes. He throws a TON of timing routes. If the receiver doesn't make it to the right spot on time, or the defender catches up, it looks like a bad pass. SB and AD don't throw a lot of timing routes so it's not what we're used to seeing.

Good examples are the TD passes to Bailey. The one that got called back that Bailey caught behind the defender's back, Hill released that ball when Bailey was still a yard off the line of scrimmage. Bailey got to where he needed to be and the ball placement and timing were right on. The defender just caught up with him. The second one looks like this arching weak lob but is a timing route. Bailey is just entering the endzone when Hill releases. He HAD to put the lob on it to get it to be in the right spot at the right time. It was perfect.

This is also why Bailey is exploding under Hill where he didn't under AD IMO. Hill trusts Bailey on timing routes. AD held the ball until he could see the open receiver.

The second reason is that Hill throws the ball away a lot under pressure by overthrowing the covered receiver. The ball almost always goes high out of bounds or over the covered receivers head to land in the open field. These are smart throws. It's almost always when he's about to be sacked and he's still in the pocket. He avoids the sack and the penalty.

If you re-watch the game with this in mind, is he about to be sacked or is this a timing route, his entire game has a different light to it. The lobs are about hang time, not a weak arm. I'm not saying he has a great arm, but that's not why he appears to lob.

He lobbed that one TD to Britt that got called back and it left his hand while Britt was still half way through his route completely covered making his double move. The move worked and the ball fell into his hands down field in stride at the perfect time.

IMHO, these are the reasons for the Rams success in avoiding the issues AD had. Hill doesn't scramble much. Instead he releases very quickly and throws a timing pass or throws it away. When he does scramble, he's pretty damn good. AD might be a fantastic QB behind a really good line where Hill's particular skillset is much more geared towards a weak line.

We also need to remember that the Chargers are the #7 passing D and earned those interceptions. They were both heads up plays where the defender was stalking the route and came from the opposite side of the receiver.

We'll see how Hill finishes the season, but I agree, I think we have a keeper. I think if people watched with these points in mind, they would change their opinion on Hill.

I do believe you just convinced me lol. I wanna bring him back and draft a QB in the third round. Rounds 1 and two go OG and C. Or even a big OT and convert him to OG. If we sign an OG/C in FA, then we can go LB'er in round 2.

I already love how the offseason is shaping up.

I'll bet u if we start Hill after the first two injury weeks, we are in the Playoffs. Hill is good!

 

[RamzFanz]

I do believe you just convinced me lol. I wanna bring him back and draft a QB in the third round. Rounds 1 and two go OG and C. Or even a big OT and convert him to OG. If we sign an OG/C in FA, then we can go LB'er in round 2.

I already love how the offseason is shaping up.

Just watch the Washington game. You'll see, I'm not just living out my Shaun Hill mancrush.

When he lobs, watch how far away the receiver is from where he catches it. The lob is almost always when he has to throw it NOW and the receiver needs time.

Also, when it goes high and out of bounds, look to see if he's avoiding the sack/penalty and the receiver is covered.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Yeah, I agree. IF Hill keeps playing like this and the Rams pump up the O line, I have no qualms about Bradford / Hill / ?. Even if ? is Davis and they think Bradford and Hill can school him up. If Davis picked up Hill's traits, he could be awesome!

 

[RamFan503]

That's the thing, right? You can't tell. Did Hill throw soft or was the receiver early or did the receiver fail to shake the defender. Timing routes are great for defeating a pass rush but are also vulnerable to the INT because you have no idea what the situation is going to be when the ball lands.

Except that timing routes aside from fades generally are thrown with a fair bit of zip on them to avoid that issue. I have to wonder how often a receiver actually gets to his spot early and has to wait for the ball on timing routes. But this has been one of Hills issues throughout his career. He has pretty good accuracy but his timing and speed on the ball has been lacking.

This is also why I don't buy into Les' arguments that Sam wouldn't have changed the outcomes of games. While Sam's body of work hasn't been great, the talent level has never been this high. I think Sam would be hitting those guys when they are more open and allow for greater YAC. We've seen much better separation by our receivers than ever before and speed and accuracy would yield quite a few bigger plays and completions.

 

[RamFan503]

Just watch the Washington game. You'll see, I'm not just living out my Shaun Hill mancrush.

I sure hope not. You're his mom. That would be pretty sick.

 

[LesBaker]

What in the world causes you to think Sam Bradford won't be in the Rams plans next year? You are kidding right? Sam will restructure his contract to something with reasonable guaranteed money, and heavily laden with incentives - particularly with regard to playing sixteen games per year. Hopefully Shaun Hill will be re-signed and the Rams will draft a Qb to compete with him - not in the first round either.

What makes you think he is in their plans? There are no assurances at all Maui, there is no way to know.

@-X- I think Bradfords best chance to get a contract is with the Rams. His injury history and 2 ACL blowouts will scare everyone away.

The Rams are a plum location for a QB next year.

 

[LesBaker]

This is also why I don't buy into Les' arguments that Sam wouldn't have changed the outcomes of games. While Sam's body of work hasn't been great, the talent level has never been this high.

Oh yeah. Well. Yer stupid!!!

 

[LesBaker]

Just watch the Washington game. You'll see, I'm not just living out my Shaun Hill mancrush.

When he lobs, watch how far away the receiver is from where he catches it. The lob is almost always when he has to throw it NOW and the receiver needs time.

Also, when it goes high and out of bounds, look to see if he's avoiding the sack/penalty and the receiver is covered.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Yeah, I agree. IF Hill keeps playing like this and the Rams pump up the O line, I have no qualms about Bradford / Hill / ?. Even if ? is Davis and they think Bradford and Hill can school him up. If Davis picked up Hill's traits, he could be awesome!

I hope Davis stays on the roster and gets playing time, I think he has skills. He's raw, and a little willy-nilly but I like his nerve and I like that he isn't afraid of things at this level.

Between the two of us they may need to get restraining orders LOL.

 

[RamzFanz]

Except that timing routes aside from fades generally are thrown with a fair bit of zip on them to avoid that issue. I have to wonder how often a receiver actually gets to his spot early and has to wait for the ball on timing routes. But this has been one of Hills issues throughout his career. He has pretty good accuracy but his timing and speed on the ball has been lacking.

This is also why I don't buy into Les' arguments that Sam wouldn't have changed the outcomes of games. While Sam's body of work hasn't been great, the talent level has never been this high. I think Sam would be hitting those guys when they are more open and allow for greater YAC. We've seen much better separation by our receivers than ever before and speed and accuracy would yield quite a few bigger plays and completions.

Yes. A timing route can and should have zip IF there's time. That's what I mean. He's lobbing them to still hit the timing route and avoid the sack. The Rams O line is no better than it was with AD, he just gets rid of the ball IMO.

I have no doubt we are solidly in the playoffs with SB. Early on he could have pulled out some wins and right now I think he's rolling with 4-5 straight wins. Ah well.

 

[RamFan503]

Oh yeah. Well. Yer stupid!!!

No YOUR stupid!

 

[Memphis Ram]

Speaking of Davis, the sad part about him is that it seems many want to grade him as if he weren't out there starting for the first time. Couldn't he improve as well? IMO, he looks like a better potential option than most of these rookies some are calling for the Rams to draft.

 

[den-the-coach]

Oh yeah. Well. Yer stupid!!!

No YOUR stupid!

Actually Gentlemen, It is You're stupid!

 

[RamFan503]

Actually Gentlemen, It is You're stupid!

Now YORE stupid.

 

[den-the-coach]

Now YORE stupid.

 

[LesBaker]

Actually Gentlemen, It is You're stupid!

You have a keen sense of the obvious den..........

 

[LesBaker]

Speaking of Davis, the sad part about him is that it seems many want to grade him as if he weren't out there starting for the first time. Couldn't he improve as well? IMO, he looks like a better potential option than most of these rookies some are calling for the Rams to draft.

I think he can improve, and I think he will and I hope it's in STL. There was enough, actually plenty, that was good about his play and with time and coaching he could be starter quality IMO.

Lets remember he was facing some really good to excellent defenses that made plenty of guys look bad this year.

 

[den-the-coach]

You have a keen sense of the obvious den..........