HC options

[Debacled]

Because, just look up Trestman lost locker room.. It's no secret that the Bears team just didn't want to play for him anymore, he had a short leash because when a good coach is on the market you don't sit around with a bad coach that your team doesn't like just because it's not 'fair' to him. The objective is to win, not to be nice to each other. Their immediate fall from grace just further shows what a difference in coaching and the players response to a coach does.

Meanwhile even the announcer of our game pointed out how much better Fox has the team running as a whole and how the whole team has bought into what he's bringing in and they're playing lights out because of it. Also it's not like Cutler has stopped taking hits all together, he's gotten sacked 2 less times than Foles and everyone's always talking about how he's always running for his life.

Fox has this team firing on all cylinders and is living proof on what a coach can do for a team that's desperate for it.

Never said Foles wasn't getting knocked around, he definitely takes his licks. Problem is, his play isn't good enough taking hits or otherwise.

Its still a 4-5 team. One that barely lost to the Vikings. That same team that just beat the Rams. It isn't hard to make this team look inept with how the passing game is progressing (if that word can even be used).

My entire beef is I am under the impression that no amount of coaching is going to fix the offensive issues. Ticky tacky holding calls on Robinson outside suck, but coaching will not fix Foles progressions (or lack there of) or his blindfolded pin the tail on the donkey accuracy that we have seen out of him as of late. The running game is there if they can stay close enough to keep the carries coming into the 2nd half and stay out of the 3rd and forever (EVERY DRIVE IT SEEMS) situations. The playcalling is there, just the guy gathering the snap every play isn't getting his part done. Can we please just start running the triple option or something?

 

[Merlin]

Coaching staffs do not sail passes and read a defense like reading the first and last pages in a book. The coaches aren't trying to force passes to Wes Welker over and over on third down because that was what they were thinking before the ball was even snapped.

John Fox is actually a fantastic example of what a competent QB can do for a HC. He was 71-73 as a HC in Carolina, the cream of his QB crop was Jake Delhomme and Matt Moore. Womp canned in 2010 when the shell of Delhomme left the building and ownership was looking to shake things up and goes on to get the HC job with the Broncos. In walks Peyton Manning 2.0 (seeing as he has never been the same since the neck injury, and still broke records) and in the insuing 4 years the Broncos he went 46-18.

But hey, Fox is 4-5 this season and people are calling him a winner because thats what he does. I'd trade Foles for Cutler, his contract, and his attitude any day of the week.

He took two different teams to the Super Bowl. No sweat though brother, we definitely agree to disagree on this one lol.

 

[HometownBoy]

My entire beef is I am under the impression that no amount of coaching is going to fix the offensive issues. Ticky tacky holding calls on Robinson outside suck, but coaching will not fix Foles progressions (or lack there of) or his blindfolded pin the tail on the donkey accuracy that we have seen out of him as of late. The running game is there if they can stay close enough to keep the carries coming into the 2nd half and stay out of the 3rd and forever (EVERY DRIVE IT SEEMS) situations. The playcalling is there, just the guy gathering the snap every play isn't getting his part done. Can we please just start running the triple option or something?

And my beef is that the Rams players don't randomly just decide they're going to come here and play. The coaching staff picks them, it's their job to make sure these guys are up to snuff and don't play like absolute crap and when they do it's their job to pick it. Foles didn't just trade himself to the Rams, nor did he refuse to bench himself when his accuracy literally disappear.

Also this just looks at one year, our guys have been coming out and playing sloppy and terrible games for 4 years, say what you want and try to make it so the season is a wash. That still doesn't change the fact that players who had no reason to come out and play as bad as they do came out completely unfocused and uncaring about the task at hand and that comes down to coaching.

Eventually execution not being there also comes down to the coaches as well, bad execution for some games is okay, but for 4 years over all the different personnel we've had? That's a bit egregious if you ask me, too much to say it's all on the players being complacent when it was a problem with others who aren't here anymore, and if it is the blame falls on Fisher for his continued playing and finding of complacent players who don't want to perform.

All and all, there's really no saying that the coaches don't have a meaningful impact, because with how much relies on them and their input almost nothing on the field has zero to do with them except the actual play.

 

[RAGRam]

Personally I like the college HC route, first call for me would be Urban Meyer, yes he runs an O which is more suited to college, but I doubt he'd have much trouble adapting, he's been a success everywhere he's been.

 

[WvuIN02]

Two things...

Snead is a definite keeper. Remember, he's tasked with finding talented players of the type that Fisher outlines. As such, he's done a terrific job. Light years ahead of anybody since at least Klosterman.

Second, if and when Fisher is fired, I sincerely hope they hire an up and comer to be our next HC. Please, no Cowher, Gruden, or their like. Their respective ships have sailed. We need younger, hungrier, and more imaginative thinkers.

Sorry but given your chosen avatar, this post has a certain amount of irony. No Cowher??

 

[den-the-coach]

Personally I like the college HC route, first call for me would be Urban Meyer, yes he runs an O which is more suited to college, but I doubt he'd have much trouble adapting, he's been a success everywhere he's been.

And after Meyer chuckles and says no, then where? It's easy to post this, but it's unrealistic. I don't disagree with the college route, however, more than likely you would have to go with somebody like Jim Mora or totally outside the box with Matt Rhule of Temple for example

 

[RAGRam]

And after Meyer chuckles and says no, then where? It's easy to post this, but it's unrealistic. I don't disagree with the college route, however, more than likely you would have to go with somebody like Jim Mora or totally outside the box with Matt Rhule of Temple for example

Meyer is all about the money, Kroenke is supposed to be all about winning no matter the cost, I'm sure they could come to some arrangement if that's who they really wanted.

If he does say no I probably try Hue Jackson, has worked miracles with the Bengals and Dalton, has NFL HC experience, without being an epic failure.

Then another college coach I really liked since he was a DC, but probably doesn't have enough experience is Pat Narduzzi from Pitt.

Jim Mora isn't a bad shout.

There's options available.

 

[DCH]

Listen to bspn much your repeating verbatim what they have said. Is there really any strong proof Lewis is truly the reason there finally performing.

I try to avoid watching ESPN... mostly listen to NFL radio. That said, I am not necessarily advocating to keep Fisher, just trying to ask the right questions to determine if getting rid of him would be a solution or just something to make us as fans feel better about the situation.

 

[blue4]

Before you clamor for getting rid of Jeff Fisher, think about this: 365 days from now, what happens if the Rams come off a tough loss like today? What happens if it's the 2nd in a row?

The same crap being said today said today, will be said then. Jeff Fisher isn't an idiot. He didn't sugarcoat it the past weeks and sure as hell likely won't this week. He knows the offense isn't playing well. But how many times must a team switch coaches when the players aren't holding up their end of the bargain? This is the pros, and players have to be held accountable unlike college. Jeff Fisher doesn't drop passes or overthrow receivers. Jeff Fisher doesn't miss tackles or make poor efforts in tackling. It won't matter who the guy in the headset is, he just calls the plays and makes decisions.



Jay Cutler has never been a bad QB. He's throws some INTs but makes great plays too. He's tough as nails too. But 5 seconds of tv footage in 1 game and all of a sudden people say he doesn't care and has a bad attitude.

Problem is, these are his players. His coaches. It's not like this offense is a mystery, there were legitimate concerns about these players going into the season. Players have to be held accountable too, but what happened to the buck stops here? He's the man ultimately responsible for the preparedness of the team, he's the man who approved the plodding game philosophy, he's the man who dictated drafting OL who are woefully short on technique. I don't see anyway he can avoid the lion's share of the blame. It's why he makes the big bucks.

 

[BriansRams]

I see you posted those right after losses. Shocking. And again this year you do the same. Why didn't you post anything similar when they won?

Let's see. If I posted after we won, I would have had 4 chances out of 9 to do so!
So let me get this straight. You are questioning what day I post something? Rather than what the content is?
Sorry sir, there is no way in the world you can defend and talk up Fisher after nearly 4 years of terrible offense and losing seasons.

 

[OldSchool]

We don't truthfully know who was a Fisher pick and who was a Snead pick. Fisher does have final say as we've seen but we don't know how often Snead gets his guy.

 

[BriansRams]

When its 3rd down the coach calls the play. Not his fault if the QB chooses to throw short or make a high throw, or the receiver drops it.

Except in Fisher's case, where he IS the guy who fought to bring in such a terrible QB when all this team needed was just an average QB to go to the playoffs (and paid said terrible QB millions extra before he even played in a preseason game for us). Smart guy that Fisher is. We should pay him millions and millions for his incredible leading abilities. Oh wait. We are.

Most everything wrong with the Rams is on Fisher. After 4 years, there's no denying it.

 

[ChrisW]

If he does say no I probably try Hue Jackson, has worked miracles with the Bengals and Dalton, has NFL HC experience, without being an epic failure.

Hue is a really good coordinator. I mean he did okay with the raiders finishing 8-8. But the offense was way better with him as the coordinator. IIRC, he runs a similar style of offense to Fisher. In that I mean a run first type. With that said, he should have gotten another year with the Raiders. They really fell off after he left, and are now just coming back to that middle of the road record.

 

[den-the-coach]

Meyer is all about the money, Kroenke is supposed to be all about winning no matter the cost, I'm sure they could come to some arrangement if that's who they really wanted.

If he does say no I probably try Hue Jackson, has worked miracles with the Bengals and Dalton, has NFL HC experience, without being an epic failure.

Then another college coach I really liked since he was a DC, but probably doesn't have enough experience is Pat Narduzzi from Pitt.

Jim Mora isn't a bad shout.

There's options available.

Still don't think Meyer would go to the NFL, but strangers things have happened. Hue Jackson will get opportunities considering in his only opportunity to be a Head Coach he was 8-8. Narduzzi just completing his first stint as a Head Coach and I like him too, but if the Rams make a change, IMO, I would like it to be on the offensive side of the ball.

I'd go Adam Gase with the caveat that he either keep Gregg Williams or hire Jim Schwartz as his defensive coordinator. Done an outstanding job with Jay Cutler when many felt all was lost.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Sir, I correctly had Fisher figured out more than a year ago. He is not a good head coach. Below average for sure.
Would you like links to prove it? Here:

http://www.ramsondemand.com/threads/jeff-fisher-we-will-bounce-back.31400/

http://www.ramsondemand.com/threads/im-not-sure-coach-fisher-is-the-answer-because.30576/

I actually called it his first year. I don't belong to that board anymore.

Just had to look at the career record and how Titan fans felt about him.

Almost verbatim what's being said here.

That being said, any threads about Fisher getting fired are a waste of time... he's not here for football, he's here for logistics.

 

[Dodgersrf]

Do we see a situation, where the GM fires the guy that hired him?

 

[Angry Ram]

Oh boy, the guy almost won the Super Bowl 15 years ago, that's a great thing for us to hang our hat on. Lets forget that he's been a coach for 21 years and is barely above .500... 15 games to be exact, lets forget that since then he's been 2-5 in the playoffs when he gets there and if he fails to deliver us to a winning season again this year will have just as many losing seasons as he has winning if you give him the generosity of considering being .500 a winning season, or that his last winning season was six years ago or that every playoff game he's made it to was a first round bounce. At least he went to the Super Bowl 15 years ago, even if the game has evolved so much that it's literally nothing like it was in 99. You know who else was in that Super Bowl? Mike Martz, you know who else wasn't all that great of a head coach? Mike Martz. Hell being the ONLY coach to take them to the super bowl sure as crap didn't save him in Tennessee.

Also the bolded is just ridiculous, you're basically just saying that there's is no actual way for Fisher to be responsible for anything bad, just the good.

You seem to do nothing but take the lazy way the media does and point to overall record only, refusing to look at other factors. During those times in Tennessee did not his players make mistakes that cost games or important players getting hurt? It all adds up to wins or losses. You can't just pin it on 1 single thing, player, or coach.

Also, why should things like getting to a Super Bowl be disregarded? Who the hell cares when it happened, its shows his teams are indeed capable of it. Some coaches don't even sniff playoffs, and Jeff Fisher's teams often times do. And if all else fails, his teams remain competitive and the locker room for the most part isn't in disarray.

Finally, the bolded is not ridiculous. Don't you or anyone else put a single fucking word in my mouth. I never said he isn't responsible for the bad and only for the good. I simply am saying it's not all on him, that it IMO would be a mistake to let go of him, and all these get rid of his posts are a kneejerk reaction after a loss. It's bullshit to me that it's cultiviated after 4 years because I don't ever recall weekly threads in those 4 years. Only after losses.


I highly doubt the coach was like "hey, lets throw it short".

I've been saying it since our week 3 loss to Pittsburgh.

Will whip, skip, diddly doo, good for you. So why after that, and not after Seattle or Arizona? It's the same people, same coaches, etc.

Problem is, these are his players. His coaches. It's not like this offense is a mystery, there were legitimate concerns about these players going into the season. Players have to be held accountable too, but what happened to the buck stops here? He's the man ultimately responsible for the preparedness of the team, he's the man who approved the plodding game philosophy, he's the man who dictated drafting OL who are woefully short on technique. I don't see anyway he can avoid the lion's share of the blame. It's why he makes the big bucks.

But answer me this, if you put in "X" coach would it magically solve anything? Or would he get a pass b/c the player aren't performing the basic football techniques, or are still adjusting to the game?

Let's see. If I posted after we won, I would have had 4 chances out of 9 to do so!
So let me get this straight. You are questioning what day I post something? Rather than what the content is?
Sorry sir, there is no way in the world you can defend and talk up Fisher after nearly 4 years of terrible offense and losing seasons.

It actually sort of is. The past 2 weeks you've been posting similar things after losses but I don't recall after Ws. Which is my general point which just screams kneejerk. If you would really believed what you say, again would be a weekly thing and a yearly thing. Also I vehemently disagree with the content, but its your opinion and I'm not gonna say you can't post.

To me, a team loses in football, shit happens in football. It doesn't mean everyone should fucking go the minute after.

Except in Fisher's case, where he IS the guy who fought to bring in such a terrible QB when all this team needed was just an average QB to go to the playoffs (and paid said terrible QB millions extra before he even played in a preseason game for us). Smart guy that Fisher is. We should pay him millions and millions for his incredible leading abilities. Oh wait. We are.

Most everything wrong with the Rams is on Fisher. After 4 years, there's no denying it.

I sure as hell can and will deny it. And I don't give a damn how much he or Les Snead or Robert Quinn or Stan fucking Kroenke makes. Don't act like you have all the answers from an outsiders POV, which isn't any more or less valid than mine. I refuse to march to the "Fisher must go" drivel after every loss. I will continue to look at the big picture.

 

[BriansRams]

I refuse to march to the "Fisher must go" drivel after every loss. I will continue to look at the big picture.

Let me help you out here. The big picture is Fisher's career .400 winning percentage over 20 years. And ALL losing seasons with the Rams, perhaps even THIS season with his refusal to bench Foles. He's a major reason our Rams are terrible. There's your big picture.

(or have I somehow been watching the wrong games and the wrong nfl.com and the Rams are really 7-2 and in the playoff hunt?)

 

[Leuzer]

Will whip, skip, diddly doo, good for you. So why after that, and not after Seattle or Arizona? It's the same people, same coaches, etc.

Seattle was the first game of the year so I still had hope.
Beating Arizona was a nice, but at this point there were still doubts. Losing to a poor Washington squad and an injury riddled Pittsburgh team took all the air out of me. It was a nice win, but I'm no longer going by week to week at that point. Plus who the hell feels disappointed after a loss? We normally don't see any vent threads. The point is I think a lot more people felt this away about Fisher. I don't believe it's a knee jerk reaction to call for his head after this loss. It's all the losses leading up to this one that's helped fuel the fire, people just didn't voiced their opinion.

 

[HometownBoy]

You seem to do nothing but take the lazy way the media does and point to overall record only, refusing to look at other factors. During those times in Tennessee did not his players make mistakes that cost games or important players getting hurt? It all adds up to wins or losses. You can't just pin it on 1 single thing, player, or coach.

Also, why should things like getting to a Super Bowl be disregarded? Who the hell cares when it happened, its shows his teams are indeed capable of it. Some coaches don't even sniff playoffs, and Jeff Fisher's teams often times do. And if all else fails, his teams remain competitive and the locker room for the most part isn't in disarray.

Finally, the bolded is not ridiculous. Don't you or anyone else put a single freaking word in my mouth. I never said he isn't responsible for the bad and only for the good. I simply am saying it's not all on him, that it IMO would be a mistake to let go of him, and all these get rid of his posts are a kneejerk reaction after a loss. It's bullcrap to me that it's cultiviated after 4 years because I don't ever recall weekly threads in those 4 years. Only after losses.

That's lazy? He almost has as many seasons losing as he does winning and it's lazy to say maybe it's got something to do with him, but not lazy to say that 9 losing years have absolutely nothing to do with him and is everybody else's fault. It's like saying an architect can't be blamed for a house because it just has to handle the stress of being lived it itself. The head coach is the architect of the team, ultimately everything that happens on a team he has a hand in, players don't bring themselves in and if they underperform for a while it's still the coach's responsibility to replace them and if they can't properly replace the elements with better players then who's fault is that? Nobody's? Should they just keep throwing shit at the wall until it sticks? Also you can't blame it all one one person, but you see that only matters if we ARE. I can't talk for everyone else, but I've been shitting on Foles for the last 5 games with how bad he's been, but you know what? I'm also going to shit on how bad Fisher has been too. That's where you've lost everyone, you say you have to blame everyone and then when people blame Fisher you defend him and say that he's not that bad. You contradict yourself saying that there's lots of blame to go around and then when people blame somebody, balk at it.

Because, and I'll bold it this time so nobody misses it. THE GAME HAS CHANGED RADICALLY IN THE LAST 15 YEARS. Why do you think we don't compare players from bygone eras to today? It's like wondering how Bart Starr is a hall of famer when he never threw for 20 and goobs like Eli have already dwarfed his stats that took him 16 years to amass. Need a more recent example? Al Davis at the time was regarded as one of the best football minds the last time Fisher went to the Bowl and a goddamn Hall of Famer. Then a downward spiral happened and people were begging for him to give the team to anybody else because the game had left him behind, his style simply didn't work anymore. How is that possible though? He built teams that went to 4 Super Bowls and won 3, so how is it possible that he went from being regarded as one of the best owners to one of the worst? Because times changes, that happens in everything but is no more prevalent than in the NFL. Football has advanced far past what it was in 1999. All it proved was that back in the day Fisher had what it took to take a team in the 90s to a Super Bowl. In this modern era of football Fisher has been bounced immediately almost any time he's been in the playoffs and has wavered between being below and above .500.

And being competitive and loving each other is all well and good, but the name of the game is wins, nobody but nobody is going to be happy that our guys are playing hard and such a family if we're not winning, if that's all we needed then we didn't need to get rid of Spags and his Kumbaya shit. You think anybody was saying, "Man I wish we were a better family." On the Cowboys when Michael Irvin's crazy ass was stabbing people with scissors and everybody was getting paid and winning super bowl rings seemingly at will?

I call bullshit on not seeing these threads, you wanna know why? I've seen em, and I've been in 'em and I call extra bullshit, wanna know why? Cuz I saw you in them too saying the exact same things you're saying now. In fact in one of the threads Briansrams posted, you were in it. The headhunting on coaches was so severe people were getting reprimanded for so much as thinking of the name Schottenheimer and you don't remember any of that?

And my point is that we've got talent and yet again we refuse to turn the corner, players are playing worse or at the same level of players who have left and suddenly aren't all that terrible anymore. We've swapped both coordinators, had a plethora of high picks and yet we're still playing peewee league football out there and the only constant is a man who's has a reputation of being average, having poorly disciplined teams and so many people who have forgotten more football than I'll ever know are saying the same things that me and every joe average here are saying and it stops being everybody just wants to pick on the guy and it starts becoming maybe a spade is a spade. Also lets not act like there's very many wins where we're not yelling for him, he's 23-30-1. You're acting like we all went radio silent for months while he was leading the Rams to a fairy tale 13-3 season. Dude's best is 7 wins, lets not act like he's blowing the world away and we're all just TRYING to find things to blame on him.

 

[BriansRams]

That's lazy? He almost has as many seasons losing as he does winning and it's lazy to say maybe it's got something to do with him, but not lazy to say that 9 losing years have absolutely nothing to do with him and is everybody else's fault. It's like saying an architect can't be blamed for a house because it just has to handle the stress of being lived it itself. The head coach is the architect of the team, ultimately everything that happens on a team he has a hand in, players don't bring themselves in and if they underperform for a while it's still the coach's responsibility to replace them and if they can't properly replace the elements with better players then who's fault is that? Nobody's? Should they just keep throwing crap at the wall until it sticks? Also you can't blame it all one one person, but you see that only matters if we ARE. I can't talk for everyone else, but I've been crapping on Foles for the last 5 games with how bad he's been, but you know what? I'm also going to crap on how bad Fisher has been too. That's where you've lost everyone, you say you have to blame everyone and then when people blame Fisher you defend him and say that he's not that bad. You contradict yourself saying that there's lots of blame to go around and then when people blame somebody, balk at it.

Because, and I'll bold it this time so nobody misses it. THE GAME HAS CHANGED RADICALLY IN THE LAST 15 YEARS. Why do you think we don't compare players from bygone eras to today? It's like wondering how Bart Starr is a hall of famer when he never threw for 20 and goobs like Eli have already dwarfed his stats that took him 16 years to amass. Need a more recent example? Al Davis at the time was regarded as one of the best football minds the last time Fisher went to the Bowl and a goddamn Hall of Famer. Then a downward spiral happened and people were begging for him to give the team to anybody else because the game had left him behind, his style simply didn't work anymore. How is that possible though? He built teams that went to 4 Super Bowls and won 3, so how is it possible that he went from being regarded as one of the best owners to one of the worst? Because times changes, that happens in everything but is no more prevalent than in the NFL. Football has advanced far past what it was in 1999. All it proved was that back in the day Fisher had what it took to take a team in the 90s to a Super Bowl. In this modern era of football Fisher has been bounced immediately almost any time he's been in the playoffs and has wavered between being below and above .500.

And being competitive and loving each other is all well and good, but the name of the game is wins, nobody but nobody is going to be happy that our guys are playing hard and such a family if we're not winning, if that's all we needed then we didn't need to get rid of Spags and his Kumbaya crap. You think anybody was saying, "Man I wish we were a better family." On the Cowboys when Michael Irvin's crazy ass was stabbing people with scissors and everybody was getting paid and winning super bowl rings seemingly at will?

I call bullcrap on not seeing these threads, you wanna know why? I've seen em, and I've been in 'em and I call extra bullcrap, wanna know why? Cuz I saw you in them too saying the exact same things you're saying now. In fact in one of the threads Briansrams posted, you were in it. The headhunting on coaches was so severe people were getting reprimanded for so much as thinking of the name Schottenheimer and you don't remember any of that?

And my point is that we've got talent and yet again we refuse to turn the corner, players are playing worse or at the same level of players who have left and suddenly aren't all that terrible anymore. We've swapped both coordinators, had a plethora of high picks and yet we're still playing peewee league football out there and the only constant is a man who's has a reputation of being average, having poorly disciplined teams and so many people who have forgotten more football than I'll ever know are saying the same things that me and every joe average here are saying and it stops being everybody just wants to pick on the guy and it starts becoming maybe a spade is a spade. Also lets not act like there's very many wins where we're not yelling for him, he's 23-30-1. You're acting like we all went radio silent for months while he was leading the Rams to a fairy tale 13-3 season. Dude's best is 7 wins, lets not act like he's blowing the world away and we're all just TRYING to find things to blame on him.

Wow. What an awesome, logical post! Thank you.