Goff INT against Cowboys - concerning?

[KayJay]

I believe its a combination of all three things said here. I think its fair to criticize Goff for the way he's played. But the people that are criticizing him, aren't exactly using sound logic. Common sense should tell you if a quarterback is hit while he throws or constantly hit before he's able to throw he's going to have more turnovers than acceptable. If you are going to tell a story, tell the whole story. Goff is the least sacked player, and has the less amount of throw away's is a stupid narrative. Lol you know why? What counts as a throw away? Out of bounds right? Goff is always trying to make THE play. Which means he's rarely ever throwing it away, in fact he barely started doing that recently if you hadn't noticed.

Truth is our line suffered because we overpaid him. A pocket quarterback at least needs a line good enough for a running game to get through. Running game is inconsistent. Second myth I've heard in here is that if Gurley had more touches everything would be okay. That's a lie, McVay wants to run the ball to set up the offense, but when they start keying in on it; there are no holes for Gurley because once again the offensive line isn't where it needs to be. No running game, Goff is left all alone; and we become a one trick pony. What happens when you are a one trick pony? You get figured out rather quickly.

Goff needs to be better in terms of accurate throws to wide open receivers, period. However the concern over his picks is all based on coaching. Which is the third thing that's been said in here. Goff is greedy, and damn it I've said many times I kind of love that about him. But being greedy won't win you very many games unless you have receivers that are just as greedy as you are. I'm talking about those guys that will fight for the football. Unfortunately we've got some crisp route runners on this team, but no receivers really strong and fast enough at the same time, (lookin at you Cooks) to be able to make explosive plays. We don't have big play guys, we have possession guys. As much as I love Kupp, double him and he disappears. Cooks and Woods don't even need to be doubled to disappear.

Goff needs to be told to check down a f*ck ton more. I hate check downs, and I promise you; you would too if that's all Goff did. But right now, we need need balance out of him. I love the fact he's out there trying to get us past the sticks, or even make up for yardage lost during a drive. But clearly these guys are ball hawking him knowing exactly what he likes to do. These things are correctable. Goff will be fine. He's had a shit year. If Mariota and Winston were afforded multiple shit years, Goff can be awared at least one given the fact he's been to a...you know...a Superbowl?

 

[Ramlock]

Wait. Because I don't agree with YOU, I am "missing the point of being a QB"? Get over yourself.

You are entitled to an opinion but I caution you to not use statements that essentially tell other members they don't know football.

I watched the play several times. From the angle, it is clear that Goff doesn't see Lee. It's clear he has a broken down pocket. He goes for a throw we've all seen him make before. It's also clear TO ME that Higbee is not going to be free or gain more than a few yards. What your picture doesn't show is Lee who would have tackled Higbee immediately. It is also clear TO ME that Goff has little time to make multiple reads in that situation and the coaches likely called a hot read rather than have Goff sacked. It's clear TO ME that Gurley is six yards behind the LOS, is not in to pick up the blitz, and would likely be stopped for maybe a 5-10 yard gain. He may be able to get out of bounds. But then again, I have no way of knowing what the coaches told Goff in pre-snap convo and neither do you.

Goff is 25 and is making mistakes behind a piss poor O-line. He often has potentially adequate time to throw but rarely has both that and a decent running game. And heaven forbid if the defense blitzes when they know we have to pass.

This has certainly not been a great season for our young QB but it hasn't been exactly a stellar year for any player on offense besides maybe Kupp and Woods. Our defense has also put our offense in some pretty unenviable positions.

Your premise is that we should be alarmed by that INT. Well, I'm not. I'm alarmed by our lack of offensive production - especially in the first half when you can set up to dictate the trend of the game. I'm alarmed by the fickle nature of our defense. I'm well aware of the mistakes Goff has made but I'm also aware that he is going to take chances amid all of this in order to strike and that is probably an extension of McVay.

One of a series of quality posts, 503. Nice job.

 

[RamFan503]

It's always good to look at video when you can. I was ready to disagree with you but, upon further review, I will agree on a lot of what you stated. The play starts at the 4:25 mark on the highlights here.

Believe it or not there was no blitz. They were only rushing four and Goff could not get a clean pocket. Lee reads Goff all the way dropping back off of Higbee to make a good play. It looks like the DB may have been able to knock the ball away or possibly make an INT. If he doesn't and Woods makes the catch he has a nice gainer with one DB to beat. It was a tight window that may not have been the best choice being down 14-7 deep on the Rams side of the field.

Higbee could have gotten 8-10 yards and was open. BROWN and Cooks could have had positive yards as well. With a head of steam Brown might have gotten 10-15 yards. I don't know where to put most of the blame on. The offensive line protection was poor. Goff looking down Woods throwing into too tight of a window. It looks like if Goff wants to hit Woods he has to decide early for the timing to work. That tips off Lee. Maybe, it should have been a check down to Brown or Higbee or the shorter route to Cooks that McVay tells Goff to do before they start the drive. The one thing the Rams can't do is turn the ball over trailing only 14-7 at that point in the game. It's easy to say now but, I would have liked the Rams to get some yards and get into a rhythm first before taking a riskier shot even if they have made the riskier plays in the past.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5bOyeuTR78

You're right that it was Brown - not Gurley. That said, it is even less likely IMO that he gains 10 - 15 yards being that he is 6 yards behind the LOS and the nearest defenders are only 5 yards or so beyond that LOS and looking underneath. Sure, it's possible. But who knows.

The score however was 21-7 at that point and the Rams were showing no signs of being able to get any decent chunks on the ground. Therefore, obvious pass defense for the gurlz until the Rams could put some points on the board.

I'd like to see that other angle again but even in that clip, you can see Lee even crouching down a little to hide behind the line from Goff. Regardless, it's a poorly thrown ball. It seems partly due to his arm being hit. In that small of a window - like you mentioned - it doesn't take much to put that ball in the hands of the defense.

I'm not sure how you develop a rhythm with only a minute and a half left in the half on your own 25 so that would really only fit if you're talking about taking that rhythm into the second half. In this case, they are going for a pass that, as you also said, has the potential for big yardage and with only 1 defender to beat, which Woods certainly can do, that pass is a potentially momentum changing TD or at minimum big chunk gain.

I just see the notion for this thread as big time Monday morning QB stuff.

 

[VegasRam]

@RamFan503 ....

...here's TO YOU.

 

[RamFan503]

@RamFan503 ....

...here's TO YOU.

Cheers Doug. How you doin' and when are you going to get your butt up to the better half of the state and see us?

 

[Ram65]

You're right that it was Brown - not Gurley. That said, it is even less likely IMO that he gains 10 - 15 yards being that he is 6 yards behind the LOS and the nearest defenders are only 5 yards or so beyond that LOS and looking underneath. Sure, it's possible. But who knows.

The score however was 21-7 at that point and the Rams were showing no signs of being able to get any decent chunks on the ground. Therefore, obvious pass defense for the gurlz until the Rams could put some points on the board.

I'd like to see that other angle again but even in that clip, you can see Lee even crouching down a little to hide behind the line from Goff. Regardless, it's a poorly thrown ball. It seems partly due to his arm being hit. In that small of a window - like you mentioned - it doesn't take much to put that ball in the hands of the defense.

I'm not sure how you develop a rhythm with only a minute and a half left in the half on your own 25 so that would really only fit if you're talking about taking that rhythm into the second half. In this case, they are going for a pass that, as you also said, has the potential for big yardage and with only 1 defender to beat, which Woods certainly can do, that pass is a potentially momentum changing TD or at minimum big chunk gain.

I just see the notion for this thread as big time Monday morning QB stuff.

My bad on the score.

My point on Brown and the other options was they still get positive yards. How many I guess is subjective. I think there is time for Goff to get a rhythm by completing two/three shorter passes. That would help open up the deeper throw. Like you stated this thread is a Monday morning QB but interesting to look at the play in more detail.

 

[VegasRam]

Cheers Doug. How you doin' and when are you going to get your butt up to the better half of the state and see us?

Ain't how it works my young friend. Young guys gotta' travel to the old guys.

But worst case, I'll see you when you and George (@Selassie I), stop over in Vegas on your way to LA for a game next year. I got room to put you guys up as well.

 

[Farr Be It]

This play was more concerning for me. On Tavons touchdown, Fowler just needed to wrap up Dak here and there is no broken coverage score

Little things put this game out of reach actually.

 

[RamsInfiniti]

Wait. Because I don't agree with YOU, I am "missing the point of being a QB"? Get over yourself.

You are entitled to an opinion but I caution you to not use statements that essentially tell other members they don't know football.

I watched the play several times. From the angle, it is clear that Goff doesn't see Lee. It's clear he has a broken down pocket. He goes for a throw we've all seen him make before. It's also clear TO ME that Higbee is not going to be free or gain more than a few yards. What your picture doesn't show is Lee who would have tackled Higbee immediately. It is also clear TO ME that Goff has little time to make multiple reads in that situation and the coaches likely called a hot read rather than have Goff sacked. It's clear TO ME that Gurley is six yards behind the LOS, is not in to pick up the blitz, and would likely be stopped for maybe a 5-10 yard gain. He may be able to get out of bounds. But then again, I have no way of knowing what the coaches told Goff in pre-snap convo and neither do you.

Goff is 25 and is making mistakes behind a piss poor O-line. He often has potentially adequate time to throw but rarely has both that and a decent running game. And heaven forbid if the defense blitzes when they know we have to pass.

This has certainly not been a great season for our young QB but it hasn't been exactly a stellar year for any player on offense besides maybe Kupp and Woods. Our defense has also put our offense in some pretty unenviable positions.

Your premise is that we should be alarmed by that INT. Well, I'm not. I'm alarmed by our lack of offensive production - especially in the first half when you can set up to dictate the trend of the game. I'm alarmed by the fickle nature of our defense. I'm well aware of the mistakes Goff has made but I'm also aware that he is going to take chances amid all of this in order to strike and that is probably an extension of McVay.

Gurley for 5-10 yards, Higbee for 5 yards, or forced INT to Woods? This has nothing to do with Lee - the pass would have been intercepted regardless.

You're right that it was Brown - not Gurley. That said, it is even less likely IMO that he gains 10 - 15 yards being that he is 6 yards behind the LOS and the nearest defenders are only 5 yards or so beyond that LOS and looking underneath. Sure, it's possible. But who knows.

The score however was 21-7 at that point and the Rams were showing no signs of being able to get any decent chunks on the ground. Therefore, obvious pass defense for the gurlz until the Rams could put some points on the board.

I'd like to see that other angle again but even in that clip, you can see Lee even crouching down a little to hide behind the line from Goff. Regardless, it's a poorly thrown ball. It seems partly due to his arm being hit. In that small of a window - like you mentioned - it doesn't take much to put that ball in the hands of the defense.

I'm not sure how you develop a rhythm with only a minute and a half left in the half on your own 25 so that would really only fit if you're talking about taking that rhythm into the second half. In this case, they are going for a pass that, as you also said, has the potential for big yardage and with only 1 defender to beat, which Woods certainly can do, that pass is a potentially momentum changing TD or at minimum big chunk gain.

I just see the notion for this thread as big time Monday morning QB stuff.

Not Monday morning QB stuff - i've played that position at the college level before a knee injury finished me off. Seen this defensive concept live and in person before.

Any high school and up QB can identify a shell coverage/prevent defense. If you are suggesting that McVay was responsible for Goff's thought process/decision on that play, then he probably needs to be fired. No coach in their right mind would teach that ideology. This is a 0.5 second read: if the LB's drop, you throw to Higbee, every time. If you see a LB blitz, you throw to Gurley every time. YOU NEVER THROW A 25 YARD INTERMEDIATE PASS OVER THE MIDDLE AGAINST THAT COVERAGE.

I personally love Gurley in the flat 1-on-1 against a DB when blockers out there. I love Higbee for 5-10 yards underneath, when I can get back to the LOS and get the same thing 2 or 3 times until the opposing D tightens up around the 50. 90 seconds is enough time to do some serious damage.

If you watch the tape, Cowboys ran this same defense in the 4th late, and Goff was beating it up underneath.

 

[RamFan503]

Gurley for 5-10 yards, Higbee for 5 yards, or forced INT to Woods? This has nothing to do with Lee - the pass would have been intercepted regardless.



Not Monday morning QB stuff - i've played that position at the college level before a knee injury finished me off. Seen this defensive concept live and in person before.

Any high school and up QB can identify a shell coverage/prevent defense. If you are suggesting that McVay was responsible for Goff's thought process/decision on that play, then he probably needs to be fired. No coach in their right mind would teach that ideology. This is a 0.5 second read: if the LB's drop, you throw to Higbee, every time. If you see a LB blitz, you throw to Gurley every time. YOU NEVER THROW A 25 YARD INTERMEDIATE PASS OVER THE MIDDLE AGAINST THAT COVERAGE.

I personally love Gurley in the flat 1-on-1 against a DB when blockers out there. I love Higbee for 5-10 yards underneath, when I can get back to the LOS and get the same thing 2 or 3 times until the opposing D tightens up around the 50. 90 seconds is enough time to do some serious damage.

If you watch the tape, Cowboys ran this same defense in the 4th late, and Goff was beating it up underneath.

Sorry. Just because you say you played college ball (and I'm not doubting you) doesn't awe me or change what I saw. It doesn't exactly say pro evaluator. When you say that any High School QB can identify what Goff apparently can't just makes your case that much weaker.

P.S. Nice try Otto

 

[Selassie I]

Ain't how it works my young friend. Young guys gotta' travel to the old guys.

But worst case, I'll see you when you and George (@Selassie I), stop over in Vegas on your way to LA for a game next year. I got room to put you guys up as well.

Oh shit... better warn your neighbors

This sounds very tempting!

 

[Dodgersrf]

On a side note, have you ever wondered if “Bingo” was the name of the dog, or the Farmer??View attachment 32886

I always assumed it was the dog.
Wow

 

[RamFan503]

BTW - The OP has been banned because it was discovered that he was banned previously and joined back up under another name. In reading back through his GDT posts, it is quite obvious why he was banned when he was James Otto and now. I don't care if someone has a negative opinion of Goff or how he played in certain games. I will argue my case. No harm no foul. But going into the GDT and calling for coaches to get fired, calling players a POS, etc, etc, etc.... is going to get you yanked any time.

And if there is any question, read rule #11 in the terms and conditions of this board.

 

[RamFan503]

Ain't how it works my young friend. Young guys gotta' travel to the old guys.

But worst case, I'll see you when you and George (@Selassie I), stop over in Vegas on your way to LA for a game next year. I got room to put you guys up as well.

Hey old man. I'm not the one who called and said he was coming up. I feel lied to.

Of course that doesn't mean I won't take you up on your offer. But I'd watch out for that @Selassie I dude. He snores something fierce.

 

[Selassie I]

Hey old man. I'm not the one who called and said he was coming up. I feel lied to.

Of course that doesn't mean I won't take you up on your offer. But I'd watch out for that @Selassie I dude. He snores something fierce.

In Vegas????

Ain't no way.... I never sleep in Vegas.

 

[RamFan503]

In Vegas????

Ain't no way.... I never sleep in Vegas.

Gotta sleep through the heat of the day - even if it's in a lounger.... by the pool... drink in hand.

 

[Selassie I]

Gotta sleep through the heat of the day - even if it's in a lounger.... by the pool... drink in hand.

I always go to the Adult pool at Caesar's. It's topless. For some reason I can never close my eyes for long there.

 

[MachS]

I seriously cant believe this thread made it to 4 pages lmao.

His entire season has been concerning not just the Dallas game. He has regressed into a pedestrian QB at best in his 4th season. The line has been playing much better of late but his play has remained suspect so everyone blaming the line needs to open their eyes. We can all create excuses for him we want, the fact is the 1st overall pick of the draft and the highest paid QB in the NFL should be able to carry an offense. But Goff cant carry an offense and that is the biggest disappointment. His great 2017 and half of 2018 came when Gueley was the best RB on earth and our line was a top 5 line AND McVays scheme gave us an advantage in almost every game. Outside of the NO game on the road he plays horribly in big must win games.

This franchise has dug it's own grave with the Gurley, Goff and Cooks contracts. Now we have to accept it because there's no way to give Goff what he needs to be successful, while still fielding a competative roster. Our window was his rookie contract with prime Gurley but that still wasn't enough. Doesnt that tell you everything you need to know? IMO the players have lost confidence in him this season because if we go down a few TDs, he goes into shock and it snowballs.

 

[jrry32]

Young QBs do young QB things. Pressing and forcing throws, especially when you're under pressure often or in need of points, is typical. There's a reason most QBs don't start to peak until their late 20's (well, many reasons actually). Goff will be fine. He'll clean shit up this off-season and be back next year.

 

[kurtfaulk]

This franchise has dug it's own grave with the Gurley, Goff and Cooks contracts.

If 8 and 6 is a grave then sign me up.

To tell you the truth I'm sick of people whining about contacts, like they're the gm of the the team. Let the gm worry about that shit.

.