GMO labeling

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Debacled

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Tomatoes as we know them are GMOs. As are potatoes. And broccoli, and just about any fruit/vegetable you tend to think of as natural or normal.

GMOs are natural selection sped up. Humans have been doing this for thousands of years, we now have the technology to select what we want to add/remove and do it in a few generations as compared to a number of generations over years. Anything people don't understand they tend to be afraid of. When everything is said and done, corn is corn and potatoes are potatoes. At least I believe there is nothing wrong with speeding up impovement
 

RamFan503

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Tomatoes as we know them are GMOs. As are potatoes. And broccoli, and just about any fruit/vegetable you tend to think of as natural or normal.

GMOs are natural selection sped up. Humans have been doing this for thousands of years, we now have the technology to select what we want to add/remove and do it in a few generations as compared to a number of generations over years. Anything people don't understand they tend to be afraid of. When everything is said and done, corn is corn and potatoes are potatoes. At least I believe there is nothing wrong with speeding up impovement
Really not that simple. We're not talking even forced cross pollination. We're talking changing genetics while maintaining or improving appearance and interweaving pesticides and modifying the DNA at a basic level. This is not really even close to just speeding up natural selection. Some is - certainly - but much of it is not anything remotely similar.
 

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Tomatoes as we know them are GMOs. As are potatoes. And broccoli, and just about any fruit/vegetable you tend to think of as natural or normal.

GMOs are natural selection sped up. Humans have been doing this for thousands of years, we now have the technology to select what we want to add/remove and do it in a few generations as compared to a number of generations over years. Anything people don't understand they tend to be afraid of. When everything is said and done, corn is corn and potatoes are potatoes. At least I believe there is nothing wrong with speeding up impovement
Yeah, but that doesn't make it right, and it hasn't proven to be safe. The inverse to people being afraid of what they don't understand is people accepting propaganda as fact without questioning anything. I'm about half-way through a MIT study on this very subject, and it's taking me longer than I thought because of all the additional research I have to do, but I can tell you that a lot of what's being Championed about this stuff is completely misleading and exaggerated.

And again, it's not so much about whether or not it's safe. Nobody knows whether or not that's the case right now. The issue (for me, at least) is corporatocracy at work yet again, and this time it could lead to something not only completely unsustainable, but also irreversible. In our egomaniacal race to outsmart ourselves, we're making a bunch of mistakes from which there could be no coming back. And I have kids (and even a granddaughter at my 'young' age), so I have a vested interest in the course charted from them by these people.
 

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Heh heh heh heh grampa
Yeah, still not used to that. But I'd rather be a grandpa now as opposed to when I'm 60 or something. I can still maneuver on the carpet with the little rug rat. It takes a little while to get back up, but at least I'm getting back up. lol.
 

Debacled

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Really not that simple. We're not talking even forced cross pollination. We're talking changing genetics while maintaining or improving appearance and interweaving pesticides and modifying the DNA at a basic level. This is not really even close to just speeding up natural selection. Some is - certainly - but much of it is not anything remotely similar.

At its most basic level its taking desired qualities and adding them to different organisms. As I stated before it is speeding up natural selection/evolution in a big way. They take genes, mutate/add/delete them just as evolution does, but instead of it taking thousands of millions of years(and a huge number of generations) it only takes a few. Nature does the exact same thing, and that is why it works.

From my point of view bigger food that grows faster and in more locations that requires less pesticide/water/nutrients to grow sounds really, really good.
 

Yamahopper

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Like they do for nuts? Not that I'm calling you one. :ROFLMAO: Seriously though, talk about one with very little science behind it. Yeah - some are allergic to nuts. Should we put up signage at all gardens that they may contain bees? Peanuts were offered on virtually every flight for 50 years and I NEVER recall hearing a word about someone dying because of it.

And all that aside, I still agree with you. Some simple wording would be appropriate.

When my kid was in 3rd grade a girl died from eating a couple cookies at the xmas party that had peanuts in them.
 

Yamahopper

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Anyone here grow up and end up living on a farm besides me?
They have been modifying seeds for forever.
It's done to fit a purpose, yield , heat and weather tolerance, location, and harvest times etc..
If modification had never happened then 80% of the worlds population would have never been born.

Like Organic GMO is just a media term. You eat it, it's been modified. You're still alive and a Ram fan what more could you want.

Here's a seed catalog, I like DeKalb. Good products. Some of these seeds have been it for as long as I remember. Every seed has been modified in some way. Mostly cross breeding and hybridization ( not same thing).

http://www.aganytime.com/dekalb/featured/Pages/default.aspx
 

bluecoconuts

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Really not that simple. We're not talking even forced cross pollination. We're talking changing genetics while maintaining or improving appearance and interweaving pesticides and modifying the DNA at a basic level. This is not really even close to just speeding up natural selection. Some is - certainly - but much of it is not anything remotely similar.

Actually it's a lot like natural selection, at least in terms of making it resistant to pesticides and such. Plants adapt to their environment just like we do, and eventually we would have plants that resistant to pesticides and such. Just like the bugs and weeds have adapted as well, its always an evolutionary arms race. When it comes to survivability of our crops we're essentially trying to give them a boost. They would eventually get there on their own though, just like the fungus that was discovered that consumes plastic, something we assumed would remain on the planet forever. Nature almost always adapts. When we add different elements so they offer more nutrients, that's not natural selection, but in terms of making them stronger or bigger then it is.
 

RamFan503

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Actually it's a lot like natural selection, at least in terms of making it resistant to pesticides and such. Plants adapt to their environment just like we do, and eventually we would have plants that resistant to pesticides and such. Just like the bugs and weeds have adapted as well, its always an evolutionary arms race. When it comes to survivability of our crops we're essentially trying to give them a boost. They would eventually get there on their own though, just like the fungus that was discovered that consumes plastic, something we assumed would remain on the planet forever. Nature almost always adapts. When we add different elements so they offer more nutrients, that's not natural selection, but in terms of making them stronger or bigger then it is.
Except that they are doing things that nature would never do no matter how many millions of years it was given. Some yes but others no. It's not a matter of all of it being potentially unhealthy or anything of the sort. It is all great to make foods more nutritious and the plants heartier but the immediate gains in many cases are outweighing the desire on behalf of those profiting to ensure proper testing and outlook. Mind you this is coming from a pretty strict economic conservative here and I almost always side with business interest over fear mongering.

In some cases, the companies have even been warned by their own scientists that there could be problems down the road and also that some of their testing had faulty parameters. In others, the product was approved only for feed and fuel yet "found" it's way into the human food chain. The reason it was approved for feed was because no one cares or has formed a health link to allergic reactions in animals yet it was strongly suspected it would cause reactions in humans due to a near indigestible protein added to the plant.

Monsanto is producing Round-up (only) resistant seeds. Who sells Round-up? Add to that theses seeds produce plants with sterile seeds (aside from a few mutated plants). The ragweed (main plant they are trying to get rid of with corn and coincidentally is now being tested as a possible biofuel source) is getting more resistant to Round-up which means the farmer has to buy more Round-up from Monsanto. And if the farmer allows instead for the ragweed to grow rather than treat it with Round-up or treats the weeds with another chemical, Monsanto sues them.

As to the designing of pesticide resistant seed, in general, scientists are taking genes from totally unrelated plants and inserting them into the gene structure of another. No amount of time would ever result in this kind of evolution. No amount of time would make a monocot like corn or a soft tissue plant like soy beans resistant to Glyphosate. This gives, for example, a soy bean traits of a Brazil nut. Allergies are increasing and are getting harder and harder to diagnose. Wonder why.

So yeah - I'd like to know if what I am eating contains genetically modified ingredients. And personally, I don't really care if others do their research to educate themselves on the subject. I have my family and self to worry about and would like to make the decision on behalf of my restaurant much like I did with aspartame.
 

RamFan503

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Anyone here grow up and end up living on a farm besides me?
They have been modifying seeds for forever.
It's done to fit a purpose, yield , heat and weather tolerance, location, and harvest times etc..
If modification had never happened then 80% of the worlds population would have never been born.

Like Organic GMO is just a media term. You eat it, it's been modified. You're still alive and a Ram fan what more could you want.

Here's a seed catalog, I like DeKalb. Good products. Some of these seeds have been it for as long as I remember. Every seed has been modified in some way. Mostly cross breeding and hybridization ( not same thing).

http://www.aganytime.com/dekalb/featured/Pages/default.aspx
Spent most of my early years working a barley, wheat, and alfalfa farm. When I went off to college I did contract farming of corn and green beans. We cropped the green beans mostly between almond trees that were too young yet to produce nuts.

I agree that most farmers are using modified seeds for the most part but when I was farming, there were still several smaller seed companies. We generally rotated the types of beans and corn we grew on these properties. This was always a common practice. Some of the operations also grew seed plots for their own use. Even then most of the seeds used were "modified" but it was mostly through cross pollination either in seed plots or in labs. I even got to do a little of it with the horticulture dept at Chico State when I was there - though it was mostly with rose varieties.
 

bluecoconuts

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Except that they are doing things that nature would never do no matter how many millions of years it was given. Some yes but others no. It's not a matter of all of it being potentially unhealthy or anything of the sort. It is all great to make foods more nutritious and the plants heartier but the immediate gains in many cases are outweighing the desire on behalf of those profiting to ensure proper testing and outlook. Mind you this is coming from a pretty strict economic conservative here and I almost always side with business interest over fear mongering.

In some cases, the companies have even been warned by their own scientists that there could be problems down the road and also that some of their testing had faulty parameters. In others, the product was approved only for feed and fuel yet "found" it's way into the human food chain. The reason it was approved for feed was because no one cares or has formed a health link to allergic reactions in animals yet it was strongly suspected it would cause reactions in humans due to a near indigestible protein added to the plant.

Monsanto is producing Round-up (only) resistant seeds. Who sells Round-up? Add to that theses seeds produce plants with sterile seeds (aside from a few mutated plants). The ragweed (main plant they are trying to get rid of with corn and coincidentally is now being tested as a possible biofuel source) is getting more resistant to Round-up which means the farmer has to buy more Round-up from Monsanto. And if the farmer allows instead for the ragweed to grow rather than treat it with Round-up or treats the weeds with another chemical, Monsanto sues them.

As to the designing of pesticide resistant seed, in general, scientists are taking genes from totally unrelated plants and inserting them into the gene structure of another. No amount of time would ever result in this kind of evolution. No amount of time would make a monocot like corn or a soft tissue plant like soy beans resistant to Glyphosate. This gives, for example, a soy bean traits of a Brazil nut. Allergies are increasing and are getting harder and harder to diagnose. Wonder why.

So yeah - I'd like to know if what I am eating contains genetically modified ingredients. And personally, I don't really care if others do their research to educate themselves on the subject. I have my family and self to worry about and would like to make the decision on behalf of my restaurant much like I did with aspartame.

So then shouldn't you be upset with what that specific company does rather than GMO's as a whole? When you make more sweeping statements about GMO's but target specific things from a company when most GMO's aren't like that, it's hard to tell what exactly your argument is. I get you want to know what's in your food, but then you're talking about the pesticides and the shady practice of a company that is a rather small part of what its all about and framing it as if most or all GMO's are similar and untested. Most GMO's have been heavily tested and shown to be perfectly safe.
 

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Most GMO's have been heavily tested and shown to be perfectly safe.
It's literally impossible to know that taking into account the fact that no epidemiological studies in human populations have been carried out to establish whether there are any health effects associated with GM food consumption. Since GM foods are not labelled in the U.S., it is scientifically impossible to trace, let alone study, patterns of consumption and their impacts. So claims that GM foods are safe for human health based on the experience of U.S. populations have no scientific basis.
 

brokeu91

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Personally I think the GMO 'scare' is mostly bunk. Almost everything we get we genetically modify, corn, fruit, etc.

If they want to slap labels to them, thats okay, but GMO would include corn and a lot of foods that are healthier and give us more nutrition as well.
I mostly agree. What I don't agree with is that I don't think it's "mostly bunk", I think it's totally, 100% complete bunk

Excuse my mini-rant, but this is a pet peeve of mine (along with the gluten free crap and the paleodiet crap)

We have been making genetically modified foods for the past 10,000 years. Ever since we settled down and started agriculture we have picked foods that grow larger, taste better, grow faster, etc. We have modified foods so much that when Linnaeus started categorizing biological organisms in the 18th century, the foods that we grew were so different than those found in the wild that he almost considered them different species.

Because of work with DNA and food, huge food shortfalls have been eluded. People have predicted huge, world wide famine, but because of people like Norman Borlaug it has been avoided and literally hundreds of millions of people now live that would have otherwise died. Read this for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug

The people who want GMO warnings don't understand the science behind it or don't care. Not to set up a straw man here, but those hipsters who are all about getting GMO labeled are not out there eating wild type foods. The stuff they call "heirloom" is not wild type food. In fact it's hard to find anything like that. Essentially they either don't know or they're hypocrites. Worst off all, they cast off the fact that GMO has saved hundreds of millions of lives. Because we have selected food that is better over the centuries we have food now that can feed the world. Poor people have much more access to food than say 500 years ago, our world population has boomed, and people have survived terrible illnesses that would kill otherwise malnourished people. But those that want this GMO label don't know or don't care.
Why should they? They all have enough money to buy their precious "heirloom" food. Who cares about the poor around the world?

Alright, End Rant
 

bluecoconuts

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It's literally impossible to know that taking into account the fact that no epidemiological studies in human populations have been carried out to establish whether there are any health effects associated with GM food consumption. Since GM foods are not labelled in the U.S., it is scientifically impossible to trace, let alone study, patterns of consumption and their impacts. So claims that GM foods are safe for human health based on the experience of U.S. populations have no scientific basis.

I think that goes back to the same argument of a specific part of GMO's being assumed for all things GMO.

Take a banana, the banana on the right is what a natural banana looks like, the one on the left is what we know as banana's. Due to selective breeding we made them able to eat.

600


Banana's however are on the cusp of extinction though, and by unlocking the genome of it scientists will be able to save them via genetically modifying them.

Most GMO's are to make us able to consume a plant or help them survive from bacteria wiping them out, etc. Most GMOs have been tested heavily and have been used and consumed for many many years. Again scientists never like to go and lay down absolutes because things can always change. Something discovered can change everything we know about physics or DNA or gravity, etc, but so far after repeated testing and consumption of most GMO's we haven't discovered any real risks to the general public. There are small areas of genetic modification that haven't been as tested and have done some shady practices, but the majority are just fine.
 

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I mostly agree. What I don't agree with is that I don't think it's "mostly bunk", I think it's totally, 100% complete bunk

Excuse my mini-rant, but this is a pet peeve of mine (along with the gluten free crap and the paleodiet crap)

We have been making genetically modified foods for the past 10,000 years. Ever since we settled down and started agriculture we have picked foods that grow larger, taste better, grow faster, etc. We have modified foods so much that when Linnaeus started categorizing biological organisms in the 18th century, the foods that we grew were so different than those found in the wild that he almost considered them different species.

Because of work with DNA and food, huge food shortfalls have been eluded. People have predicted huge, world wide famine, but because of people like Norman Borlaug it has been avoided and literally hundreds of millions of people now live that would have otherwise died. Read this for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug

The people who want GMO warnings don't understand the science behind it or don't care. Not to set up a straw man here, but those hipsters who are all about getting GMO labeled are not out there eating wild type foods. The stuff they call "heirloom" is not wild type food. In fact it's hard to find anything like that. Essentially they either don't know or they're hypocrites. Worst off all, they cast off the fact that GMO has saved hundreds of millions of lives. Because we have selected food that is better over the centuries we have food now that can feed the world. Poor people have much more access to food than say 500 years ago, our world population has boomed, and people have survived terrible illnesses that would kill otherwise malnourished people. But those that want this GMO label don't know or don't care.
Why should they? They all have enough money to buy their precious "heirloom" food. Who cares about the poor around the world?

Alright, End Rant
Awesome. I always look forward to debating with someone who makes me do additional research and gives me talking points to discuss; especially someone with a medical background and strong opposing stance. Iron sharpens Iron and all that. To that end, let me just discuss with you some things that I both need to clarify, and take issue with.

Yes, we have been genetically modifying foods for quite some time through breeding and cross-pollination. Nobody disputes that or thinks it's wrong. Even Mother Nature is responsible for genetic modifications through evolution. What we *haven't* been doing for very long (by comparison) is giving seeds pesticidal gene traits that are directly responsible for the mutation of weeds and insects that make them even more resilient to pesticides and herbicides - thus requiring even MORE of those chemicals to kill them. Not to mention the environmental impact of that kind of run-off. It should be noted, and should NOT be overlooked, that companies like Monsanto not only lead the charge on this type of genetic research (in addition to funding the testing), but also produce the seeds, pesticides and herbicides that farmers use. Keep that in mind as I continue.

As per your broad brush-stroke statement that people who want GMO warnings (false - we want transparency through non-judgmental labeling) don't understand the science behind it or don't care? That's entirely not true. There is a massive grass roots movement happening of people who are trying to gain as much information and understanding as they can. The problem with that, is that the science behind this new trend of genetically modified foods is:

A. Inconclusive. As I said earlier, there have been zero epidemiological studies in human populations have been carried out to establish whether there are any health effects associated with GM food consumption, *because* there has been no labeling. How to do you study its effects if you don't know who your focus group really is, or which foods even contain them? And when I say "them", I mean this new science. Not the good science implemented by Borlaug who created a disease resistant strain of dwarf wheat and implemented plans for government support for modern agricultural methods through the use of large quantities of fertilizer, price supports, irrigation, and improved infrastructure. That's all good stuff and ecologically responsible. The toxicity levels of fertilizer are VASTLY lower than that of pesticides like Roundup. But I digress.

B. Controlled. While research on genetically modified seeds is still published, only studies that the seed companies have approved ever see the light of a peer-reviewed journal. In a number of cases, experiments that had the go-ahead from the seed company were later blocked from publication because the results were not flattering. Scientists rely on the cooperation of the companies for their research (they have to gain access to the seeds for studies), but most have chosen to remain anonymous for fear of reprisals. One group of scientists led by a Cornell University entomologist submitted a statement to the EPA protesting that “as a result of restricted access, no truly independent research can be legally conducted on many critical questions regarding the technology.”

Now, to address your army of straw men.

those hipsters who are all about getting GMO labeled are not out there eating wild type foods

Wild-type foods like Organics? Yes, some of *us* are. And people who want to do so shouldn't be blocked from doing so by politicians who are in the pockets of industry lobbyists. Specifically by sponsoring bills like H.R. 4432 that would modify the Federal Food Drug and Cosmetic Act to establish a voluntary federal labeling standard for genetically engineered foods. It would also specifically prohibit Congress or individual states from requiring mandatory labeling of GMO foods or ingredients.​

Worst off all, they cast off the fact that GMO has saved hundreds of millions of lives

That's an extremely insulting thing to say, my friend. Even Norman Borlaug, who stood the most to lose in the face of opposition, didn't say that. His words were that some of the environmental lobbyists of the western nations are the salt of the earth, but many of them are elitists. Of that, we can agree. I will not deny that there are many people who are jumping on this train because it's *a cause*, and not because it's a cause in which they're fully (or even remotely) invested. Try not to cast such a large net, and we can continue to have a meaningful dialogue on this. You know, as a favor to me.
Because we have selected food that is better over the centuries we have food now that can feed the world. Poor people have much more access to food than say 500 years ago, our world population has boomed, and people have survived terrible illnesses that would kill otherwise malnourished people. But those that want this GMO label don't know or don't care. Why should they? They all have enough money to buy their precious "heirloom" food. Who cares about the poor around the world?

Wow. I'm truly taken aback by that. So now I'm a proponent of death by starvation? Let me direct you back to the core issues real quick before you accuse me of wanting to club baby seals to death. The issue isn't with higher-yields and the propaganda that GMO's are designed to 'feed the world.' The issue is with the secrecy/agenda associated with experimentation on people and a refusal of their inalienable right to CHOOSE what goes into their bodies. Unless you think that people should just walk in lockstep with Corporations and the Government and just eat whatever the fuck we're told. If I truly want to eat just Organic foods, I want to be able to know that my foods have no GMO's in them. It's really as simple as that. I want to know that pesticide residue in my body is significantly lower than those who choose to eat GM foods and processed foods (of which somewhere near 90% of which is genetically modified). Am I to be denied that right through legislation sponsored (and funded) by Corporations and passed by our elected officials?
So to summarize, I'm not against genetic modification, because that would mean I'm against nature. I'm for ecologically responsible genetic modification, organic farming and consumption, transparency through labeling, scientific testing that isn't funded and controlled by the companies who serve to benefit from same, and a proponent of an ecoargicultural society that is (and is proven to be) sustainable. The problem with organic farming is that Corporatocracy is making it impossible to achieve on a massive scale due to a monoculture system facilitated by patent law, corrupt political officials, and obscene amounts of money. Money that absolutely pales in comparison to those of us who have enough of it to purchase our precious 'heirloom' food (and we don't, because it's becoming increasingly more expensive to purchase it). And finally, my daughter moved to Belize and is an organic farmer. Would it be fair of me to play the, "are you in favor of my daughter failing as steward of our ecosystem because she's anti-corporation" card? Or can we just drill down to what we're actually saying and hear each other out?

Thanks, broke. Look forward to hearing back from you.
 

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I think that goes back to the same argument of a specific part of GMO's being assumed for all things GMO.
Exactly right, and that's what I'm referring to. Not the good science. The shady science.

Take a banana, the banana on the right is what a natural banana looks like, the one on the left is what we know as banana's. Due to selective breeding we made them able to eat.

600
And I'm totally for genom sequencing if it's done properly, safely, and in an ecologically responsible manner. That, in particular, is the result of over two decades of breeding involving the analysis of some 10,000 hybrids. Not simply by giving it the genomic traits of pesticides which in turn breed more devastating insects and weeds - which in turn requires even more pesticides and herbicides as crop treatment. I'm going to repeat myself throughout this thread so that people know where I'm coming from, so I apologize in advance for that.

Banana's however are on the cusp of extinction though, and by unlocking the genome of it scientists will be able to save them via genetically modifying them.

Most GMO's are to make us able to consume a plant or help them survive from bacteria wiping them out, etc. Most GMOs have been tested heavily and have been used and consumed for many many years. Again scientists never like to go and lay down absolutes because things can always change. Something discovered can change everything we know about physics or DNA or gravity, etc, but so far after repeated testing and consumption of most GMO's we haven't discovered any real risks to the general public. There are small areas of genetic modification that haven't been as tested and have done some shady practices, but the majority are just fine.
Agreed. Genomic sequencing that, for example, entails putting red pepper genes into a banana, is totally fine with me. Nature may or may not have done that anyway at some point through evolution and cross-pollination. My problem, again, is with your final statement. We haven't discovered any real risks to the general public, because we can't trace it or study it in any real controlled group. Plus, most (if not all) scientists agree that it takes decades to gain any kind of definitive knowledge on how a GMO will sustain, effect other organisms (humans included), or how it will mutate as an evolution process. All that aside, is it so difficult or morally wrong to let me know what I'm eating?
 

RamFan503

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So then shouldn't you be upset with what that specific company does rather than GMO's as a whole? When you make more sweeping statements about GMO's but target specific things from a company when most GMO's aren't like that, it's hard to tell what exactly your argument is. I get you want to know what's in your food, but then you're talking about the pesticides and the shady practice of a company that is a rather small part of what its all about and framing it as if most or all GMO's are similar and untested. Most GMO's have been heavily tested and shown to be perfectly safe.
I was only giving an example. Did you want me to go into all the companies and methods being used? Before you say yes - NO! But to the idea that Monsanto and what they are doing is a small part? Guess again.

I think this discussion has been turned to say those who want simple labeling are all anti-genetic modification and/or want labeling for foods that have simply been selected out or cross pollinated and the like. The problem is that is just dismissing the issue because many of the anti-GMO people are indeed hipsters as Broke put it. But the problems are not all imagined and dreamt up by 20 somethings with the latest anti-establishment bullshit to put meaning into their pathetic lives.

The problem is that there has been woefully little testing on truly genetically engineered foods. But a few of the things they do KNOW is that people have allergies to some of the genes they are modifying with and that the lack of knowing that those genes are even in the food is a problem. Eating a soy bean that has the allergens of a nut is a problem for some people.

I said earlier that I don't buy into all the latest allergy crap. It's simply not possible that so much of the world's population is suddenly allergic to peanuts or gluten. But many people are at least moderately allergic to several food items, spices, additives, etc. The scientists know what genes they used for modification. I see no reason for not letting the public know as well. Simply stating something contains genetically modified ingredients is a start but it would honestly be simple to say what the modifications are. I'd at least like to know there are modified products in my food. But seriously, if on the label, soy was in the ingredient list and it simply stated in parentheses (contains traces of Brazil nuts (or it's true name)), how much more difficult is that than when they list enriched flour (contains wheat flour, niacin, reduced iron, thiamin mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid)?

The idea that we can't come up with wording of a law that omits simple selection or the speeding up of the selection process or grafting and the like and instead lets people know that their food contains genes from x is ludicrous. The idea that a label can't simply say at minimum that the food contains genetically engineered ingredients is an insult. We can't know that something was genetically modified to improve disease or pest resistance? We have point of origin laws, ingredient labeling laws, they have to tell us that farm raised salmon has color added, and yet simply letting people know their food has been genetically modified is somehow onerous or wrong?

We're not talking about banning genetically modified foods so that the poor suddenly have nothing to eat. We're talking about providing information about the food we eat.

BTW Paulie - what strange world do you live in that red peppers and bananas are socializing?
 

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Medium-sized Lebowski
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The Dude
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I think this discussion has been turned to say those who want simple labeling are all anti-genetic modification and/or want labeling for foods that have simply been selected out or cross pollinated and the like. The problem is that is just dismissing the issue because many of the anti-GMO people are indeed hipsters as Broke put it. But the problems are not all imagined and dreamt up by 20 somethings with the latest anti-establishment bullcrap to put meaning into their pathetic lives.
Yup. Since nobody in this thread has said that labeling GMOs is a bad thing, I guess we can put that down as a given. The rest of the stuff about the merits and safety of GMO's in and of themselves are separate issues that we can continue to freely discuss.

BTW Paulie - what strange world do you live in that red peppers and bananas are socializing?
Where do you think banana peppers came from?