Football Outsiders: WR is Rams' biggest weakness/Wagoner

[RAGRam]

To be clear, this opinion is Football Outsiders, not Wagoner. He made it clear that he thinks the OL is the Rams biggest weakness.

You expect people to actually read the article before jumping on the "Wagoner is a poo poo head" bandwagon?

 

[blue4]

Another year or two with the Rams not living up to expectations and there won't be any reporters left who aren't "out to get us."

Every year we win training camp and the draft and lose in the season. The fact is there were only 6 offensive players on the team last year who to my mind had proven they could get it done day in and day out. Cook, Kendricks, Saffold, Mason, Britt and the much maligned because he made a business decision Zac Stacy. Everyone else is either a question mark of what we got like Foles, or pretty much all potential like most everyone else. So I'm not going to criticize anyone who looks at our offense with a skeptical eye. They're going to have to get their respect the old fashioned way, earn it on the field.

 

[Rams43]

Another year or two with the Rams not living up to expectations and there won't be any reporters left who aren't "out to get us."

Every year we win training camp and the draft and lose in the season. The fact is there were only 6 offensive players on the team last year who to my mind had proven they could get it done day in and day out. Cook, Kendricks, Saffold, Mason, Britt and the much maligned because he made a business decision Zac Stacy. Everyone else is either a question mark of what we got like Foles, or pretty much all potential like most everyone else. So I'm not going to criticize anyone who looks at our offense with a skeptical eye. They're going to have to get their respect the old fashioned way, earn it on the field.

Little harsh, blue4, if you ask me.

I think both Quick and Bailey proved that they "could get it done" offensively last year.

We need to look at last year's O through the prism of backup starting QB's for all 16 games. Not to mention devastating multiple OL injuries.

Those are each factors that would cripple any team's chances.

 

[Rmfnlt]

You are free to NOT read what MY opinon is!!!
This is true. I guess that flows the other way as well... you are free to NOT read what Wagoner's (or Thomas's or Miklasz's) opinions are, no?

I have been one of Wagoner's biggest supporters, until he decided to become a "bernie- wannabe" with his video blogs, and his part time GM role. When he sticks to reporting the what, when, who about the Rams, he is quite informative. But when he wanders off into opinion pieces about what they SHOULD do, he loses me.
So I make sure I get this right.... he should just report the who, what, when and keep his opinions to himself because his opinions are born from being butt hurt about Watkins? Um, OK. The funny thing about all of this is that his opinion had nothing to do with the WRs... his opinion was that the Oline was his biggest concern (the ncertainty). Do you disagree with that opinion? He was just reporting the who (FO) and what (they said). .

As to the particular topic of Wide Reveivers, he has been very vocal about his displeasure that they didn't draft Watkins. And as I mentioned, he points out what he percieves are issues with the group.
So??
He's been vocal... I've been vocal about some moves... I'm going to guess you've been vocal. But no one here is attacking your credibility because of your opinions. Why are you attacking Wagoner for his? We all have opinions.... and, of course, none of ours are right or wrong. And, like you said, if you don't like someones opinions (such as Wagoner or Thomas or even Miklasz), you are free to NOT read them.


As far as them having access to more information, that was true when Wagoner worked for the Rams, Not the case anymore. And, Thomas' "access" has been well documented on here. Some of "us" lil ole posters, have as much access is some regards as they do.
So, because he no longer works for the Rams, he doesn't have more access than us fans? Those connections are severed now? Yes, Thomas seems to have been given the cold shoulder by Rams management... but this regime plays it very close to the vest... they tell you what they want you to believe and don't tell you what they don't want you to know... and I'm fine with that. But no reporter is getting any "inside scoop" from them.
I still maintain, however, just by virtue of their full time jobs (which is to cover the Rams), thy are around these men more than any of us and it stands to reason they know more than any of us (call it osmosis).
I've read your camp reports and they are great and I thank you for them. But, with all due respect, I'd still submit they have access to more than "us" lil ole posters.

I'll leave this as we'll have to agree to disagree regarding these beat reporters and their "opinions". I think they have a right to say whatever they feel. I also believe they have more access than us, so I'll respect their opinions... even if I don't agree with them. Take care, coach!

 

[blue4]

Little harsh, blue4, if you ask me.

I think both Quick and Bailey proved that they "could get it done" offensively last year.

We need to look at last year's O through the prism of backup starting QB's for all 16 games. Not to mention devastating multiple OL injuries.

Those are each factors that would cripple any team's chances.

Maybe it is harsh, but Quick and Bailey have done it for about half a year. They've proven nothing to outsiders eyes which is what we're talking about. They've shown potential. Outside of Britt I don't think any WRs have shown an ability to beat the coverage given him on every play. I think they will prove that this year, I really do, but as of yet it's not in the bank.

As far as the OL Jake Long got hurt. And we had zero depth apparently cause our depth never saw the field. There were two teams in our division with bad OLs and they both made the playoffs and one lost a SB. That's the other side of the prism. Can't say the Cardinals had better QBs. Again, outside looking in.

Year 4 and we are going into a season with an OL relying on rookies and a left tackle who, out of the mouth of his own coach, doesn't really know how to pass block. Again, outside looking in.

I'm a rams fan and I wouldn't bet a lot of money we make 9-7. A little sure, but not a lot. We certainly have the potential to, but I can't fault non-homer reporters or casual fans for having doubts. It's unrealistic to expect otherwise. That's all I'm sayin

 

[CoachO]

I'll leave this as we'll have to agree to disagree regarding these beat reporters and their "opinions". I think they have a right to say whatever they feel. I also believe they have more access than us, so I'll respect their opinions... even if I don't agree with them. Take care, coach!

So it's ok for you to comment on others opinions. But not for anyone who doesn't share your POV or that of the writer's.

Gotya.

Maybe you should try spending some time watching these guys "do their job". I have. I am there watching the same practices as they are. And trust me they spend more time talking amongst themselves than they do watching practice.

Most of the "articles" they write are in reaction to something someone else has written and they put their own spin on it.

You obviously can choose to buy everything they write as gospel. I choose to see things with my own eyes.

 

[LACHAMP46]

It is so difficult to evaluate them with the last two years of QB play. This year will be very telling as to where the team is at WR, IMO.

While I get what you're saying, I think the new OC, new QB may need a year or 2...to really get on the same page...So while I do expect significant improvement in 2015, I really expect them all to take off in 2016....I know, I know...it is, what it is...

How a fan looks at the WR corps right now is all dependent on their outlook, positive or negative. On the negative side Quick has had a major shoulder injury, Britt is signed or only two years, Bailey has not had a full season of consistent play yet, Tavon is a glorified kick returner. Looks bleak from that point of view.

Until we get decent QB play, where a defender has to respect the deep ball on most plays, a wr can never truly look dangerous or be respected by an average DB....The easiest receiver to cover is one that doesn't have a QB that can get him the ball at any point on the field..Just my take as a db...

I am there watching the same practices as they are. And trust me they spend more time talking amongst themselves than they do watching practice.

I agree so much with this...just wanted to put it here again...The average reporter is not really LOOKING at the players, he's listening to what someone else SAYS they saw or thinks/thought about any given player....then reports it to us as fact....

 

[Amitar]

Bailey, Quick, Britt, Austin, Cook, Givens the Rams are fine at WR.

The obvious weakness is the OL.

In reply, if the OC and QB need a year ot 2 to get going then its time for a new OC and QB.

 

[nighttrain]

Bailey, Quick, Britt, Austin, Cook, Givens the Rams are fine at WR.

The obvious weakness is the OL.

In reply, if the OC and QB need a year ot 2 to get going then its time for a new OC and QB.

Last line made me LMAO. Do hope coach Lou is up to this.
train

 

[snackdaddy]

Another year or two with the Rams not living up to expectations and there won't be any reporters left who aren't "out to get us."

Every year we win training camp and the draft and lose in the season. The fact is there were only 6 offensive players on the team last year who to my mind had proven they could get it done day in and day out. Cook, Kendricks, Saffold, Mason, Britt and the much maligned because he made a business decision Zac Stacy. Everyone else is either a question mark of what we got like Foles, or pretty much all potential like most everyone else. So I'm not going to criticize anyone who looks at our offense with a skeptical eye. They're going to have to get their respect the old fashioned way, earn it on the field.

Agree 100 percent. Aside from the handful you mention, everyone else on offense is a question mark. Chances are, a couple question marks step up and perform. But the odds of all them doing that are slim. We can look through rose colored glasses and say "but these guys can be really good" or "when they realize that potential we're gonna be awesome". But we've been doing that for years and have yet to see that potential realized for many of these guys.

I don't care if a few guys don't reach that potential as individual players. Or if a few do. I want to see the team reach its potential. I'm still waiting. And until that actually happens when it counts, I can't buy into all the hype. Been there done that too many times for over a decade.

We seem to be a pretty good offseason team. Even a good training camp team. But that doesn't work for me. I wan to see a good regular season team. They remind me of this pitcher we used to have during my baseball years. He looked impressive throwing in the bullpen. But not when he actually faced batters. He was what we called a great bullpen pitcher, but not much else was good about him.

 

[nighttrain]

Agree 100 percent. Aside from the handful you mention, everyone else on offense is a question mark. Chances are, a couple question marks step up and perform. But the odds of all them doing that are slim. We can look through rose colored glasses and say "but these guys can be really good" or "when they realize that potential we're gonna be awesome". But we've been doing that for years and have yet to see that potential realized for many of these guys.

I don't care if a few guys don't reach that potential as individual players. Or if a few do. I want to see the team reach its potential. I'm still waiting. And until that actually happens when it counts, I can't buy into all the hype. Been there done that too many times for over a decade.

We seem to be a pretty good offseason team. Even a good training camp team. But that doesn't work for me. I wan to see a good regular season team. They remind me of this pitcher we used to have during my baseball years. He looked impressive throwing in the bullpen. But not when he actually faced batters. He was what we called a great bullpen pitcher, but not much else was good about him.

If Gurley is who he's supposed to be, and a lot of folks think he will be, our offensive line will look a lot better. My point is that run blocking is a lot easier at the NFL level than pass blocking . Gurley and the "The Refrigerators" will make Foles and the receivers job very much easier.
train

 

[Mikey Ram]

Like I said before, I don't care what the talking heads care about with regard to this kind of stuff...I feel like I know as much as they do, and I would put WRs no higher than 3rd onmy list of concerns...Until they prove otherwise, I would put the OL and secondary before the wide-outs...

 

[RamzFanz]

If WR is the Rams biggest weakness, this is going to be one hell of a season.

 

[WvuIN02]

As I pointed out in the Tavon thread, its a Fisher thing. Look at his 8 billion years in the NFL and outside of Derrick Mason, he hasnt really ever fielded a receiver who put up great numbers. I think one other guy who nobody knows of pretty much is the only other, and he was a 1 year wonder in Tennessee.

Old dog, new tricks, etc. Why are people so surprised?

 

[Ballhawk]

If WR is the Rams biggest weakness, this is going to be one hell of a season.

Yep! I agree and i hope that they are correct in their assessment. If WR is our weakest link we should go deep into the playoffs this year.

 

[LACHAMP46]

http://ramblinfan.com/2015/05/28/dissecting-the-st-louis-rams-wide-receiver/?utm_source=FanSided Daily&utm_medium=email


Ramblin' Fan

Nov 30, 2014; St. Louis, MO, USA; St. Louis Rams wide receiver Tavon Austin (11) celebrates a touchdown during the first half against the Oakland Raiders at the Edward Jones Dome. St. Louis defeated Oakland 52-0. Mandatory Credit: Jeff Curry-USA TODAY Sports

Dissecting The St Louis Rams: Wide Receiver
by Nic Moody 10h ago

The St Louis Rams still have some very high standards when it comes to wide receiver. These standards are completely justified, as it seems it was only yesterday when Rams fans had the pleasure of watching Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce shred defenses together.

Now times have changed. The Rams have not had a receiver break 800 yards since Torry Holt did in 2007. The Rams have not had the best luck at quarterback the last few years either, so given both the scenarios, lets check out their current core.


Kenny Britt

Kenny joins Jared Cook in making the transfer from Nashville to St Louis to regroup with Fisher. He was in a limited market, having off-field issues and struggling for a mediocre passing team. The transfer to St Louis has been great for him after his first season there. Britt finished second in receptions, only behind Cook, with 48, and led the team in yards at 748.

Britt will do even better this year, given that Foles stays healthy. Britt has excellent size and has a natural ability to catch the football. He runs routes swiftly and accurately. Britt also is viewed as a great locker room presence. He has been called out by many Rams players for his outspoken enthusiasm and leadership.

Kenny Britt has the tools to succeed, especially now that he has a first string quarterback at the helm. Many will argue that Britt is not a “number one” guy, but look for him to silence his doubters in 2015.


Brian Quick:

Ouch. This one hurts. Brian Quick was being called one of the biggest bust in recent years at the beginning of the 2014 year. He couldn’t catch, run routes, and had a negative attitude both on the field as well as off. Then, out of absolutely nowhere, he comes out in the season opener with seven receptions and 99 yards. He didn’t stop there, as he continued to rack up yards in games 2-4, going 7-74, 2-62, and 5-87 respectively. Then, in week eight, he suffered a sickening shoulder injury, one that would knock him out for the year.

There is no telling how Quick will return, but he was on the right track from 2014. He showed much improved route running, and caught everything that came his way. Quick proved many people wrong about him with the massive growth in overall performance.

Its hard to know how good he will be. If healthy, he is an excellent number two option.


Tavon Austin

Tavon Austin is in the same boat Quick was, being called a bust and fans demanding he be cut or traded. Austin is a playmaker. He can run sweeps out of the backfield and when he gets the ball in open field, is most likely gone. Austin has been under utilized under Brian Schottenheimer, who thankfully has moved on. If used correctly, Austin can be a true threat. Austin averaged 6.2 yards a rush last year, and although the receiving numbers weren’t great, still has great numbers after the catch.

Austin has the speed and quickness of a full grown cheetah. (Thank you Sport Science) He has a decent catching ability and makes his money in open space and after the catch. Austin can return punts at an excellent rate, as he has shown over the last two seasons. Austin’s lack of football knowledge has kept him off the field some, as he has had trouble learning the plays.

The bottom line is, the Rams just need to give him the ball. Stop running it up the gut with him and let him do what he was brought here to do.


Stedman Bailey

I wrote an article a few weeks ago on why Stedman Bailey should be starting for St Louis. I still hold the same strong opinion of that, as he has shown that he can be a great target despite his lack in size.

Bailey made a spectacular one handed grab against the Raiders last season, as well as an over the shoulder grab that ended with him in the end zone versus Seattle. Bailey has the softest hands on the team, proving this in his video where he made a one handed catch while doing a backflip. Bailey runs great routes and can create separation. Baileys numbers were right up with Amari Cooper and Kevin White in their final years of college.

Bailey lacks great size, but honestly, it doesn’t matter. He has proven he can be a threat on third down and all over the field.


Chris Givens

Givens appeared as if he was going to have a fine career. After last season, I’m not so sure. Givens set records in his rookie campaign, having a catch of 50+ yards in five straight games. Givens reception numbers are way down, as better overall talent has replaced him on the field.

Givens has great speed, and can run great routes deep. Unfortunately, everything else about him is just average. Average height, average weight, average route running, catching, release, you name it. Givens is a great down field target, but with different options coming up and a lack of quarterback, there just hasn’t been much room for givens on the field.

I'm not going to cover the rookies or camp invitees. Bud Sasser might replace Givens, as I think he is a good option despite his lack of experience.

The rams are building up, they have a great young bunch who could do great things. The talent is there, but until the stats match it, I can only give them a fair rating.

Official Grade: B

Never heard this

had a negative attitude both on the field as well as off.

about Quick before...Never....

 

[WvuIN02]

Put our WRs on a team like Pittsburgh and they would double their production just from a scheme that helps them and, oh, yea, having a QB who isnt hot garbage throwing them the ball.

 

[Amitar]

Last line made me LMAO. Do hope coach Lou is up to this.
train

I do think both the OC. And QB are up for the job and will perform immediately.

 

[BonifayRam]

Lots of concern if Quick will be ready when regular seasons begins, many printed words about that Quick shoulder that had surgery on in October 27 2014

....not a word though on that same kind of surgery on Rodger Saffold who may not have had the amount of ligs tears but sure more issues with bones, cartridge & tendon issues. Saffold's surgery was over 50 days later than Quick's.

 

[ausmurp]

I will take the "wait and see" approach....At least every concern, except wr was addressed. And I believe in Brian Quick, Kenny Britt, and Sted Bailey.....hell, Cook & Kendricks aint bad either....

We've taken the wait and see approach for what, 8 years straight now? When does it end? Call them what they are, man. In that or a similar article he said "based on stats" there were enough WRs who outperformed Rams WRs for every single NFL team to have 2 better than the Rams...crazy.

Also the QB excuse is old. Watkins had Orton and got 900 yds. Mike Evans QB...