Fishers M.O. and why I'm not freaking out

[badnews]

I don't want to be misunderstood. I have many of the same concerns everyone else has... I just think the massive swing in our outlook from being a better than .500 team into this "sosar" here we go again mentality is premature and short sighted.

I don't think we'll be playing our best football week one. I don't want us to play our best in week one. I want us to get in to the playoffs and have a chance when we get there.

In recent years there have been other reasons for our slow starts that aren't Fishers fault.
Losing your QB and LT. New coordinators, learning new systems takes time. Youth and inexperience....

I don't expect us to look like a well oiled machine right out of the box. How could we be? It's unrealistic to bring in a new QB, new line and new OC and expect excellence, especially when these guys are not even scouting our opponents or game planning.

 

[PFaulk]

I think this plan is what is scaring a lot of people if it's the best case scenario that Fisher has in mind. The translation is "let's hope the offense is just good enough and the defense dominant enough to barely win games 13-10 until Gurley breaks out". The problems:

- Planning to barely win is probably the hardest thing to do in the NFL. There's a huge amount of luck involved in games decided by less than a TD. Huge turnover luck is part of it. One bad ref call or a Fail Mary can be a win or loss. We Rams fans know what kind of luck the Rams have with all these factors, mostly only the one kind.

- The defense must hold up their end of the bargain and not just be as good as last year, but better. So far they've shown every inconsistency of last season and even worse in the run game. Fears of Sack City 2.0 are understandable.

- While this strategy doesn't need a great, good, or even average offense, the offense must at least move the chains and not turn it over. The Foles pick-6 is pretty much the worst possible thing to see for this scenario. And it was caused because the OL can't block for more than 2 milliseconds before Foles is running for his life.

- The strategy relies on Gurley. I think the easiest part for fans is to have faith in a guy who's never played in the NFL, but the hard part is the rational calculation of his healthy return date. If it's not until after the bye week that Gurley becomes the player most think he will, it's probably too late. The Rams play 4 playoff teams in the first 5 games. I don't think even Gurley can save the team if it's in a 1-4 hole. So that provides huge incentive to rush him in there, then you get the worries about injuring a guy coming back too soon, or shattering his confidence if he's rusty.

Fisher is conservative but they must have more planned for this offense than just trying not to lose on that side of the ball until Gurley arrives. The big question is where's the urgency in getting the "real" plan together before Seattle comes calling? Hopefully it's hidden behind the scenes, since like others have said we just don't know right now.

I don't know what your expectation could have ever been otherwise though.

If you were thinking that this team was going to look like the 2010 New Orleans Saints and the preseason games so far have just completely burst your bubble, I'm sorry to hear that, but the bubble was probably made of rubbing alcohol fumes anyway.

 

[Zaphod]

While I'd like to throw some profound and sage advice about the preseason out there, all I can really say is that I just try to not let it bother me, because I already know how intense I get about the regular season games is basically bad enough.

I mean, there are SO many new faces this season that it's really hard to just settle my nerves enough to see how it all plays out, and that's basically where I am right now.

 

[Rmfnlt]

I'm fairly certain that what we see against the Colts will be drastically different from what we have seen so far

I look forward to this!

 

[Ram65]

On one hand it's only preseason.

On the other hand Fisher has had the Rams out to slow starts every year.

I guess we will see what happens this year. I'm thinking he may be too easy on the players early in the year. The players have to take some responsibility as well. I've been saying the 1st team offense needs reps. Let them get them all except Saffold.

 

[badnews]

I look forward to this!

Me too... but who knows. "Fairly certain" was a bit much though. I should have said "I expect to see us look much more competitive" lol.

 

[Moostache]

When a team starts "slow" once, it's understandable.
When a team keeps starting "slow" and keeps doing the exact same things that contributed to the previous slow starts, then its a trend.

Jeff Fisher's career record is a trend. He is a near 0.500 coach and has a propensity for slow starting teams in St. Louis.

I do not think the angst over the continued poor play of the team (even in pre-season) is out of line at all.

To paraphrase that wonderful torturer of the English language, GWB:

 

[DaveFan'51]

Fisher has his flaws... but running him out of town for bad preseason games is the height of impatience.

Coach George Allen would agree with this^! So do I!

 

[Rmfnlt]

Me too... but who knows. "Fairly certain" was a bit much though. I should have said "I expect to see us look much more competitive" lol.

No backing down now... you're calling out the Debbie Downers.. got to have faith!

One thing is for sure... can't have more of what we've seen thus far. I think even you would agree with that!

How much improved? Here's what I'd like to see in terms of starters numbers...

Foles - plays entire first half... maybe into part of the 3rd quarter.
12/16, 92 yards. 1 TD. No INTs
Maybe mis in a run or two... but slides safely with no injury.

Mason - plays entire first half.
18 rushes for 80 yards
3 receptions for 21 yards
No fumbles (by any back that's in there)

Receiving (all of them combined)
9 receptions for 71 yards

Total offense:
172 yards

Scoring: 24 points



Defense gives up a total of 120 yards and no more than 1o points in the first half. All the starters play the entire first half.
At least 1 INT or fumble recovery.

I would hope the back-ups do better than they have as well and the Rams end up playing solid football for the entire game and win it (yes, a blow out would help calm a lot of people... even if it's pre-season).

 

[badnews]

When a team keeps starting "slow" and keeps doing the exact same things that contributed to the previous slow starts, then its a trend.


I do not think the angst over the continued poor play of the team (even in pre-season) is out of line at all.

I didn't realize that Fisher injured Foles and replaced him with Shaun Hill. That would be doing the "exact same thing" that contributed to starting slow last season.


Young teams start slow and we've been the youngest.
Teams learning new schemes start slow, we've been doing that every year too.
Teams that have been historically bad and go through a complete roster overhaul start slow.
It never helps having one of the hardest schedules year after year either.

There are many reasons we have started slow under Fisher and to lay all the blame on him is not only too easy, it's short-sighted.

We have started slow under Fisher. It's not how any of us want to start but there have been plenty of legitimate reasons too.

I'd say it's 50/50 between Fishers methods and unfortunate circumstances.

I seem to recall a stupid team from the Pacific Northwest who also seem to come out a little flat.... it's worked out ok for them...

 

[Fatbot]

I don't know what your expectation could have ever been otherwise though.

If you were thinking that this team was going to look like the 2010 New Orleans Saints and the preseason games so far have just completely burst your bubble, I'm sorry to hear that, but the bubble was probably made of rubbing alcohol fumes anyway.

Nobody has 2010 Saints offense expectations (maybe those were the pipe dreams in preseason in 2013? but haven't heard anyone saying such expectations, I think Rams fans have painfully learned their lesson by now).

Personally, my most optimistic expectation is that since Cigs cut his teeth coaching with Mike McCarthy, my dream is an offense similar to Green Bay -- an offense with tempo that is creative & aggressive and exciting to watch, not mired down in not taking any risks trying not to lose and boring to watch (e.g. Martyball).

I agree the most realistic expectation is expect the offense to struggle coming together at first. Which feeds into the fans' panic on seeing a perceived lack of urgency from Fisher to have it come together in the preseason before the real games start. If Fisher's plan is to simply get to the point where the offense "doesn't suck so much that it prevents the defense to win", ok, but then let's see some progress in the elements that make that a winning strategy. Let's see the defense dominate. Let's see the special teams excel (*cough*). Let's see discipline and intelligent play and the little things that will give fans confidence that the Rams are going to win at the 13-10 close game strategy.

Fans are spoiled by examples of teams with bad QB play that still somehow win (see AZ last season). The Rams don't need perfection, they can struggle on offense and win. There's many paths to win in the NFL, with due apologies to Colonel John "Hannibal" Smith, the Rams just need a plan to come together, not just hope things work out until Gurley arrives.

 

[Ramsey]

Not to be Debby Downer but Fisher's M.O. is also to have 6 winning seasons in 20 years.

Compare that to Andy Reid who has 10 winning seasons in 16 years.

Don't get me wrong---I'm a HUGE Rams fan and I will always have hope and optimism until it's no longer possible to have hope and optimism. Until they are eliminated mathematically, I will maintain hope. I do that every year.

On the other hand I never see anything wrong with fans getting angry, frustrated, or venting about things they see and do not like. It doesn't make them any less of a fan. Being a fan is an emotional thing. We do crazy things, act crazy ways and often have unrealistic expectations. I can remember watching a Rams game a few years back and the Rams were winning. I had a fan on in the living room and my wife came in and turned it off. The Rams suddenly played like crap and lost. I blamed her for shutting the fan off.

Nuts, I know.

But fans don't have to be reasonable or calm or even sane about this sport we love. I have no problem with being honest about how you feel at any given moment in regards to the team. And both sides can make excellent points. But as individuals we all have to approach and process all of this in our own way. For some that's a calm analytical approach and that's fine. For others it's throwing shoes at the television set.

I don't care how people react or respond because in the end--if the team IS successful these passionate fans will be there right next to the calm, golf clapping, tea sippers(just kidding)because this is the way it has always been.

For me, I go back and forth(calm to anger to calm)--try to have a sense of humor and to remember that no matter what happens, it is not the most important thing in my life. It's important to me--but not THE most important thing.

But as far as the Rams go--when they play horribly they deserve the blowback they get from the fans--plain and simple. They have earned it--just as they earn applause and cheers when they perform well. And make no mistake--it isn't even always about winning--it's how they look, how they play. Sometimes you can lay it all on the line and still lose. But when it looks like sloppy mistakes are being made, poor effort, mental errors or an attitude is displayed that says you just don't care or you just aren't prepared....well, put your helmets on because there will be fallout.

I guess I'm saying that everyone will approach their reactions to a game in their own way and that's okay.

And don't get me wrong--I love optimism.

Good post PA!
I enjoyed you sharing personal Ram Fan experience. Literally fans and wife's tales. We each worship Rams in our own way.

Losing parts the waters, fans the fires and divides Homers into opposite camps. Winning does wonders. Paraphrasing PARam- "Screaming fist pumping Ram fans high-fiving the polite country club set after touchdowns! Winning is good.

I liked the way Badnews turns a phrase. Badnews is a voice of reason in the midst of an unreasonable preseason. Badnews makes a good argument even though I agree more with PA's viewpoint. I think we can all agree. that we will blend into a herd, a cohesive fan base once Rams bang out several clusters of wins.

I don't care if we win preseason games. But damn, if you attend a Tuxedo Dinner, don't show up in casual-ware! Then excuse yourself and say, what you said last formal, last year, and the year before that, "We'll iron it out later."

Several same-old things are buggin me out this preseason. We look sloppy! So sloppy, I'm embarrassed. I understand the constant blitzes. I understand Vanilla. I'm all for it. But dammit! Does vanilla exclude basic fundamental skills like "wrap up and tackle!" Be in position! Memorize your route trees and playbook. Does Vanilla include numerous stupid penalties and lackluster effort?

What freaks me out? Deja vu all over again. This preseason is a fine forgery of the last two preseasons. It's like a horror film- where you hear the child music right before the murder...again!

" The Sword of Damocles" hangs over Ram's regular season.

Remember, how your head feels the day before you get sick? That dry tickle at the back of your throat? That, "Oh No feeling!"
Inclement weather up ahead! 4 out of first 5 games- against teams with 11 or more wins last year!

I'm not a pessimist. I'm a Rams fan. I'm nuts! I got lots of voices in my head. Mostly I cheer, I'm cheerful, Oh Lord do we have talent!
Deepest defensive line and running back group on the planet. Virtually injure free. Youth! Future dynasty! We'll iron things out.

But I'm not blind! And plus, when I was 11 someone lied to me. So color me cynical when I say,

" I can hear children's music! :eek: I got deja vu all over again. My throat feels dry and ticklish. Quick, point me to a Kool-Aid stand!"

 

[badnews]

I liked the way Badnews turns a phrase. Badnews is a voice of reason in the midst of an unreasonable preseason. Badnews makes a good argument even though I agree more with PA's viewpoint. I think we can all agree that we will blend into a herd, a cohesive fan base once The Rams bang out several clusters of wins.

You are too kind but thank you very much!
I recognize my opinions are just that. I don't mean to preach or dismiss anyone else's thoughts.

" I can hear children's music! :eek: I got deja vu all over again. My throat feels dry and ticklish. Quick, point me to a Kool-Aid stand!"

Right this way Sir, I have plenty on tap....

 

[Moostache]

I didn't realize that Fisher injured Foles and replaced him with Shaun Hill. That would be doing the "exact same thing" that contributed to starting slow last season.


Young teams start slow and we've been the youngest.
Teams learning new schemes start slow, we've been doing that every year too.
Teams that have been historically bad and go through a complete roster overhaul start slow.
It never helps having one of the hardest schedules year after year either.

There are many reasons we have started slow under Fisher and to lay all the blame on him is not only too easy, it's short-sighted.

We have started slow under Fisher. It's not how any of us want to start but there have been plenty of legitimate reasons too.

I'd say it's 50/50 between Fishers methods and unfortunate circumstances.

I seem to recall a stupid team from the Pacific Northwest who also seem to come out a little flat.... it's worked out ok for them...

Last year, I was drinking the same Kool-Aid...give them time....they need to gel....really young....new coordinator....QB issues....etc.
This year, I see the same lackluster offense, the same lack of line push on runs, the same confusion on passes with WRs who have all been here going on 2+ years, Foles pick-6 in that game was as bad as anything we saw from Hill or Davis or Bradford for that matter...defense getting mauled on inside runs (again), Lauranitis getting dragged on tackles that start 4-5 yards down field and end 7-8 yards downfield, Ogletree being out of position, DBs cutting guys loose in the secondary...

If anyone wants to play ostrich, that is 100% their right. I have just seen enough to say without drastic changes to the coaching staff and personnel we are going to see more of the same from the Fisher led Rams in '15. 7-9 to 9-7 record. Will lose at least 2-3 games that they should win. Will win at least 1-2 games that the experts say they should lose. Will miss the playoffs (again). Will have numerous, mind-numbing penalties and miscues (again). Will draw flags for unsportsmanlike conduct and late hits as always (some warranted, others on reputation and honestly BS calls...again).

The projected 53-man roster is depressingly familiar at WR (same 5 from last year's underwhelming crew? Quick better stay healthy and put up Vincent Jackson like yaer 4 numbers I guess...), DBs (safety is better by way of player development, but corner - especially nickel corner instead of nickel safety - looks problematic again), LBs (maybe Ayers is waiting to start playing when it counts?) and the changes to the QB and RB positions (bringing in Foles - who looks totally ineffectual in the 3 times I have seen him in camp and the 2 games; and Gurley who is at best going to see spot-duty for the first 4-6 weeks as Fisher eases him into the line-up) do not look to be enough to overcome a young and questionably talented O-line.

Maybe you are right...maybe this team is holding everything back and is going to explode on the Seahawks in week one and go off on a season long tear...'99 magic recaptured? But when the past has been what it has been, the coaches and players are doing the same things we have seen before and the present seems to indicate exactly more of the same results, I just do not have the positive vibe going into the season...but, then again, I was hyped about the team going into both 2013 and 2014, so maybe this will turn out differently in 2015?

BTW, the "youngest" team thing is a red herring....ALL NFL teams are young, its the nature of pro football, where the average career is less than 4 years! That means most NFL players are out of the game by age 25-26...about the average age of the Rams? The "hard" schedule thing too...how many years in a row are we as a fanbase going to trot that nonsense out there? The team needs to play the opponents on their schedule...all 32 NFL teams have "hard" schedules, it comes with a league that has a lot of parity in the middle and very few "great" teams at the top...basing Strength of Schedule on last year's 11-5 Cardinals and 8-8 Niners as major factors is disingenuous at best. The real schedule difficulty is known only around mid-year IMO...

 

[Zombie Slayer]

I asked this in the underwhelmed thread yesterday and no one answered so I'll ask it here. If the Rams play like garbage again for the whole time the starters are in on Saturday, will it be ok to at least start to panic a little? The thing is with this team is it always feels like they keep telling us that "it will be there." But it has not been there. This team does not have the benefit of the doubt with the fans. If a playoff team was looking bad like the Packers, Patriots, Steelers, Colts were looking bad in the preseason it would be different. They've shown that they can win in the regular season where it counts. The Rams have not been to the playoffs in eleven years. They should be trying to build momentum anywhere they can. And I agree with the poster who already pointed this out, but Fisher's MO is six winning seasons in twenty years and a career .500 winning record. Maybe he needs to change things. Might be a thought. I don't think anyone should say the season is over yet, but there is definitely cause for concern based on the performance this preaseason and the performance the last few years under Fisher. Seattle is coming week one and if they do not get things squared away, they will get trounced.

 

[Merlin]

Well speaking for myself I am an admitted Kool-Aid drinker in the offseason. And for the past several seasons I have been very patient because I believe in Fish and Snead. I really do think they are good at what they do, I like the changes to the staff the past two seasons, and I still believe it's going to play out on the field at some point this season.

But regardless I am concerned by the inability to run the ball or stop the run with the first team, and the general uninspired play overall by a roster that I believe to be stacked and ready to contend. Gameplanning or no, at some point if they have the talent I think they have I expect to see good things.

Fish has his way. But I do think after three seasons here it is fair and equitable for fans to have some concern about the continued slow starts and wonder whether they have something to do with his preseason approach. Hope not, but again I don't think it's right to dismiss them or characterize it as fans freaking out. Given the history it is completely understandable from where I'm sitting at least, and I hope this next game shuts all of us up.

 

[badnews]

Maybe you are right...maybe this team is holding everything back and is going to explode on the Seahawks in week one and go off on a season long tear...'99 magic recaptured?

But when the past has been what it has been, the coaches and players are doing the same things we have seen before and the present seems to indicate exactly more of the same results, I just do not have the positive vibe going into the season...but, then again, I was hyped about the team going into both 2013 and 2014, so maybe this will turn out differently in 2015?

Ok, you're taking some real liberties with what I said now.
I guess wait and see is just an unacceptable position for me to take.

I have a simple question for you: Do you think losing our QB and LT and then 2nd string QB and Chris Long should be ignored when looking at how our season started?

"Excuses!!!" Right?

 

[RamFan503]

We are all going to react differently to what we have seen the past several years and thus far in pre-season. Personally, I am not one to go bleeding all over this forum as I would rather it be a fun place to hang out and talk about the team. I have little doubt that my talking about the poor offensive results or that Foles had a bad game Sunday or that our defense was less than dominant would not be an original thought and I'm sure it has not escaped the eye of virtually every Rams fan out there.

I get why some are upset at what they have seen so far. It makes sense. What tends to push my buttons is the poster that calls for a player's or coach's head or starts several threads on why a player or coach is going to kill our chances of winning it all after what amounts to 2 1/2 qtrs. of scrimmage play.

Posts that contain all doom and gloom tend to make my eyes glaze over. Posts that attack players for what we are seeing in pre-season make my eyes roll. Yet I tend to think the coaching staff gets a bit less of a pass until it comes to the hot seat debates or posts that essentially say we are going to be a bad team because the past ALWAYS repeats itself in that what we see in pre-season are the results we will get in the regular season.

I am not going to tell people how to post except that I would suggest that if you find yourself wanting to make a bunch of threads condemning players or the team, maybe you should just chill a bit.

We still have a very young team that is learning on the fly. We have Brockers out, Quick out, Gurley out, a combined - what? - 20 games worth of experience on the entire O-line, a new QB, a new offensive coordinator, we were coming off of a long trip, etc... Yeah - all excuses if you want to look at it that way. I consider it aspects that add up to a bad day at the office.

Let's face it. There is not a huge difference between a good team and a bad team on any given Sunday. Last year, we made the Broncos look atrocious. Were they? We made the Viqueens look like world beaters. Were they? The Raiders had just come off of a win at KC and then beat the Whiners the week after we made them look like a HS team. OK - they were but....

So here we are in the pre-season and IMO it would take a blind person to not see the poor play and results. But as always, I am going to watch every week with hope and faith that the team I think we have been building will be the team that walks victoriously off the field.

 

[FRO]

Has Fisher's approach to preseason lead to the team starting slow every year?

 

[blackbart]

Amazing to me that supposedly intelligent fans can't look passed a win loss record when it comes to evaluating a coach or QB.

"But his teams always have slow starts!!"