Fisher Doesn't Take First Round Ol

[laramsoriginal]

If the rams are able to resign saffold then the biggest team need would CB then OG

 

[Ramifications]

If the rams are able to resign saffold then the biggest team need would CB then OG

I think the key in the draft is getting the right player/position at the right spot and for the right value.

But if I were just to focus on the most gaping hole among starters on the entire roster (22 combined offense/defense), to me it has to be FS. Which is why I hope, if they don't improbably get Robinson and Watkins in the first, that if the value lines up, possibly with a strategic trade down, they get Pryor or Clinton-Dix (in the second, Joyner could play nickel CB or FS like Mathieu, he just lacks ideal size - which is why he will likely be there in the second). Though I am on board with a CB if someone like Dennard or Gilbert grades out better, agree we have a need there, too.

 

[fearsomefour]

Not sure about 2012, I think Wells played well this year (gave up only 1-2 sacks?), better than Dahl, but you nailed it, he has missed a lot of time, which is why IMO, he hasn't justified his contract so far, and at around 32-33 (?), you have to wonder if he is breaking down. Without looking it up, I think he missed the first nine games in 2012 and the last four in 2013, so 13 of 32. Not good.

Yep, and guys usually dont stop getting injured heading toward their mid 30s. I didnt think Wells played badly this year. He isent going to move a DT or NT back 5 yards on most running plays, but then, most Cs are not. A lot more to playing that position than just the blocks. I would rate C very highly in order of most important O positions.

 

[BonifayRam]

Yep, and guys usually dont stop getting injured heading toward their mid 30s. I didnt think Wells played badly this year. He isent going to move a DT or NT back 5 yards on most running plays, but then, most Cs are not. A lot more to playing that position than just the blocks. I would rate C very highly in order of most important O positions.

Wells has turned 33 now & not a bad age for most centers. SW did play well enough what was like 23 rated OC? Not bad if he was getting paid like a 23rd ranked OC...but he was being paid in the near the very top of the pay scale for OC. 6.5 mil cap hit this 2014 season.

Wells has ended up on the IR for both his Rams contracted seasons digest that (back to back seasons). Wells was signed to bring continuity to this OL how has this been fulfilled? Can the Rams Org. throw more cap $$ down that injury hole? Is the 6-2 300 pound SW going to magically get better & return to his all pro form that he flashed late in his 20's. Looks to me that Boudreau has place himself in a great position @ CENTER with Barnes & Jones. The 25 yr old 6-4 309 pound Barnes has been a Ram back up center for three complete seasons. TB has played in 31 Ram games started four. Snead got a steal in the draft when he snatched up broken foot well decorated OL Barrett Jones to go with Barnes.

No brainer here Barnes will cost around 6 mil less that Wells not a real hard decision to make just after the last 2014 pre season game concludes.

 

[BonifayRam]

I think the key in the draft is getting the right player/position at the right spot and for the right value.

But if I were just to focus on the most gaping hole among starters on the entire roster (22 combined offense/defense), to me it has to be FS. Which is why I hope, if they don't improbably get Robinson and Watkins in the first, that if the value lines up, possibly with a strategic trade down, they get Pryor or Clinton-Dix (in the second, Joyner could play nickel CB or FS like Mathieu, he just lacks ideal size - which is why he will likely be there in the second). Though I am on board with a CB if someone like Dennard or Gilbert grades out better, agree we have a need there, too.

I would fully disagree with your comment on the safeties being the most glaring gaping hole. I could name you four under contract Ram young safeties. All of these four have many Ram games under their belts & two have many starting games under their belts. Our primary starting safety that played with McDonald was Giordano. McLeod spent most of 2013 playing out of his safety position and playing the Nickle. Thus we saw a heavy dose of Stewart & Giordano playing safety posts when McDonald broke his leg & McLeod playing the Nickle. Both Stewart & Giordano are no longer under Ram contract. The Rams safeties (McDonald/McLeod/Daniels/Davis) sound much better than the candidates @ OLG or ORG to me.

Tell me who is our starting OLG if the season started today? Tell me who is our starting ORG if the season started today? Tell me who will be our starting OLT when Jake Long is still rehabbing? Brandon Washington? Mike Persons? Harvey Dahl who like Jake Long just had surgery this week and Harvey who was injured & IR'd in 2012 & cam back & was injured again in 2013 in October & never regained his starting post? is Harvey Dahl worth 4 mil cap hit with all that

 

[fearsomefour]

Wells has turned 33 now & not a bad age for most centers. SW did play well enough what was like 23 rated OC? Not bad if he was getting paid like a 23rd ranked OC...but he was being paid in the near the very top of the pay scale for OC. 6.5 mil cap hit this 2014 season.

Wells has ended up on the IR for both his Rams contracted seasons digest that (back to back seasons). Wells was signed to bring continuity to this OL how has this been fulfilled? Can the Rams Org. throw more cap $$ down that injury hole? Is the 6-2 300 pound SW going to magically get better & return to his all pro form that he flashed late in his 20's. Looks to me that Boudreau has place himself in a great position @ CENTER with Barnes & Jones. The 25 yr old 6-4 309 pound Barnes has been a Ram back up center for three complete seasons. TB has played in 31 Ram games started four. Snead got a steal in the draft when he snatched up broken foot well decorated OL Barrett Jones to go with Barnes.

No brainer here Barnes will cost around 6 mil less that Wells not a real hard decision to make just after the last 2014 pre season game concludes.

While I dont disagree with what your saying there is no guarentee Barnes is an upgrade over Wells. I thought Barnes was good in the pass game and ok in the run game. Probably the most telling thing is Barnes being able to develop for three years. Forget grading by some site, if the Rams staff thinks Barnes is ready Wells is gone. I am excited about Jones' potential but I am not counting that egg until he sees game action.
My concern is if Dahl, Wells, Williams and Smith go......a good argument can be made for this....and Saffold walks, this leaves the Rams with Barnes and unproven players for the interior of the line. The prospect of starting two or three rookies or guys making their first start spells a slow start and another 7 win year to me.

 

[Ramifications]

I would fully disagree with your comment on the safeties being the most glaring gaping hole. I could name you four under contract Ram young safeties. All of these four have many Ram games under their belts & two have many starting games under their belts. Our primary starting safety that played with McDonald was Giordano. McLeod spent most of 2013 playing out of his safety position and playing the Nickle. Thus we saw a heavy dose of Stewart & Giordano playing safety posts when McDonald broke his leg & McLeod playing the Nickle. Both Stewart & Giordano are no longer under Ram contract. The Rams safeties (McDonald/McLeod/Daniels/Davis) sound much better than the candidates @ OLG or ORG to me.

Tell me who is our starting OLG if the season started today? Tell me who is our starting ORG if the season started today? Tell me who will be our starting OLT when Jake Long is still rehabbing? Brandon Washington? Mike Persons? Harvey Dahl who like Jake Long just had surgery this week and Harvey who was injured & IR'd in 2012 & cam back & was injured again in 2013 in October & never regained his starting post? is Harvey Dahl worth 4 mil cap hit with all that

Where we stand now, I'm not assuming Saffold, Wells and Dahl will all be gone, but we will know more about that by free agency and certainly by the draft. I'm also not assuming Jones won't be able help at center or guard, though that is admittedly speculative. Also, while Jake Long might miss some time, I don't view the need to possibly cover him for a few games the same as if he suffered a career-ending injury.

Technically the team with worst starting safety in the league has a starter, but they don't want them to start. Every team starts 22 players every game, so by that rationale, every team has a full panoply of starters. Yet they still draft players where they have current starters at the same position, so they can upgrade. Giordano is a journeyman, I don't think he would start for many teams, and those he would start for, probably don't have very good secondaries. He is replacement level, as is Stewart, McLeod, etc. McDonald is a keeper, but we need to upgrade FS. They don't call it safety for nothing.

Maybe my thinking on this is that for years, we haven't had a great safety (Mikell was good in his prime, if flawed). When was the last time we had one? We give up too many big plays in coverage, and in run support. Countless times, the so called last line of defense has let us down by getting suckered on misdirection, reading keys and diagnosing wrong, taking false steps, bad instincts, taking a bad angle, failing to get off a block, missing a tackle. To me, FS is a gaping hole.

I might not have worded it well, and am not saying FS is as important as a LT of the future like Robinson who could fill in at guard now, or cover Jake Long for a few games. I would never advocate taking a safety from this class with the higher first rounder. Thus the part about right player/position with the right pick. But yes, I view the current FS situation as a smoking hole in the ground. Who we are trotting out now isn't good enough to compete in the NFC West, the toughest division in the NFL.

 

[iced]

I think I only heard Warford's name mentioned, but it wouldn't be a surprise if they had other prospects of interest (did you here who, I'd be curious?). I may have heard about another trade down being possible but forgot about it, that vaguely rings a bell. Guess we will probably never know for sure? If they were considering Warford at the the 1.30 (albeit with other prospects, and possibly alongside the further trade down option), that might still be interpreted as potential evidence that Fisher/Snead won't categorically rule out a first round OL.

I can't remember - I wanna say it was between a DT, OL (warford), pass rushing DE, and.. i think it was a corner, but could have been another OL.

found this trying to look it up

http://www.sffootball.net/news-media/rams-interest-in-lions-larry-warford-more-evidence-of-his-value

After the Rams traded down eight spots to the 30th overall pick, their main target was Georgia linebacker Alec Ogletree. But, as King reported, if Ogletree was gone, the backup plan was to draft either UCLA defensive end Datone Jones or Warford.

King makes it clear the Rams would not have drafted Warford at 30. They would have traded back into the second round and taken him there. That's still an indication the Rams, like the Lions, had Warford graded as the third-best interior lineman after first-round picks Chance Warmack and Jonathan Cooper.

 

[ausmurp]

I agree, and good points.
A quick word about BPA, without devoting a thread to it for such an obvious point. Absolutely teams have gotten into trouble with positional reaches (Jason Smith, for instance). But there are limits. If by coincidence QB is the BPA at your first round pick 10 years in a row, you don't get a first round QB for a decade straight.

At the time, Jason Smith was not a reach. He was pretty well thought to be a top 3 pick. We can say he was a reach now, but only because he was a bust.

I agree with what you said about QB, but because only one QB can be on the field at a time. It's different with WR, CB, DL, OL, etc.

I am on the 'against OL with 1st pick' train, I want Watkins, because I think he is the best WR to come out in a while - since AJ and Julio.

Lastly, I do think there is some merit to the fact that Fisher has never drafted an OL in the 1st rd. If he has always had control of that decision, then there is obviously some reason behind the fact, and that reason exists in his head. Now that being said, a part of that reason could've been the cost/performance of 1st rd picks. Perhaps he didn't want to pay OL the most $ of any players on the team, he'd rather pay DE/DB which he has drafted the most with all combined 1st/2nd rd picks. Now with the CBA in place, teams are paying 1st rd picks much less, so the cost/performance factor has gone way down, so perhaps Fisher will change his ways and draft an OL in 1st rd. Nobody really knows.