Faulk: Patriotrs cheated Rams out of a Superbowl

[RamsLife]

Seriously think Goddell (he"ll never do it tho) should just admit the Pats cheated, take back the '01 Lombardi Trophy from the Pats and give it to us, and make all new rings for all the players and coaches that were on that '01 team. That would set things right for me at least...

 

[Stranger]

Seriously think Goddell (he"ll never do it tho) should just admit the Pats cheated, take back the '01 Lombardi Trophy from the Pats and give it to us, and make all new rings for all the players and coaches that were on that '01 team. That would set things right for me at least...

Vegas would cut Goodell's balls off. Just think about all the money and lawsuits. The mind boggles.

I think I would settle for a permanent ban of Belicheat and no hall of fame. Give him the Pete Rose treatment, which would permanently tarnish Tom Brady, Rodney Harrison, Ty Law, Tedy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel, and that entire lot of arrogrant players.

 

[Ram Quixote]

Gotta remember that Tagliabue was commish at that time.

Does Goodell throw his predecessor under the bus or destroy the tapes?

Does Goodell give light to a cheating scandal larger than the 1919 Black Sox--keep in mind that we believe this went on over several seasons, not just one post-season event--or destroy the tapes?

Does Goodell fight for the truth at the expense of the NFL or destroy the tapes?

Yeah, I know.

 

[Memento]

Gotta remember that Tagliabue was commish at that time.

Does Goodell throw his predecessor under the bus or destroy the tapes?

Does Goodell give light to a cheating scandal larger than the 1919 Black Sox--keep in mind that we believe this went on over several seasons, not just one post-season event--or destroy the tapes?

Does Goodell fight for the truth at the expense of the NFL or destroy the tapes?

Yeah, I know.

Goodell chose the easy way out. Admitting that the Patriots cheated would've been hard to swallow at first, but in the long run, it would've benefitted him a lot more. Punishing refs when they screw up calls or let their own biases cloud their minds would've given him a lot more credibility than he has now. Now he's just a bad joke to everyone associated with the game of football.

 

[Selassie I]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxFppJAgQQ0[/youtube]

To properly set the stage,,, please have the following playing...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuLWRAq-Kuk[/youtube]

In a thick German accent, I picture Commandant Goodell screaming for the Damage Control idiots over at BSPN to do this segment ASAP.

 

[-X-]

I disagree.

Goodell is an attorney and he should know that destruction of evidence creates tons of issues regarding corruption, coercion and complicity.

He;s not bound by law, he's bound by the NFL constitution. No laws were broken. NFL league rules were broken. So this is not evidence in a criminal case. He is the sole authority in issues involving rule violations and his determination is final. It can't be appealed or re-opened.

And again--the very existence of the tapes themselves violated league rules PLUS contained information about various teams and their signals etc. There is no reason for that stuff TO exist and potential bad outcomes if it DOES (ie what if it got leaked to an opponent of one of the teams that were taped).

And yes evidence is destroyed all the time if the evidence itself is something illegal, such as illicit drugs. Well. That's what the tapes were. Their very existence violated league rules.

Actually, with respect to evidence that's only true to an extent. It was destroyed BEFORE anyone could file a lawsuit, so no discovery could be instituted. Had that happened, Goodell would have HAD to produce all of the tapes. That's why the tapes were destroyed BEFORE he gave his ruling. That ensured that there was no chance he could be held in contempt of Congress or any judicial proceeding.

So, while it's true that he violated no rule of law, you're REALLY splitting hairs because that evidence would absolutely been germane in several lawsuits and potentially a Congressional Inquiry. At that point, had he not destroyed the tapes, their destruction would have been a crime.

As a matter of fact, he STILL may be convicted of a crime if other evidence somehow comes out because willful destruction of evidence to hamper a federal investigation is a felony. And with the NFL having that special anti-trust exemption, several Senators have wanted to investigate and haven't solely for lack of corroborating evidence. Should that emerge, Goodell would have to answer for destroying those tapes.

As a lawyer, he's betting that he's destroyed all the evidence. I don't buy the signal stuff for a second. Most coaches and systems don't last long enough for these tapes to retain their value after even 5 years. But they're still valuable as evidence of a felony.

My point is that there is NO danger of leakage if the tapes are truly secure in a safe that the Commissioner has access to and a proper chain of custody is maintained. We can secure nuclear materials, the private sector can secure diamond stores with billions, they can find a place to secure NFL tapes. Leakage is a red herring. Misdirection.

The destruction prevented further inquiries. That's it. No one opening the books of franchises. No one doing discovery into coaches lives and schedules. The NFL is incredibly insular and it doesn't surprise me that they brought the entire weight of not only the NFL, but the sports media down on that one camerman who dared to want to for a second tell the truth.

We'll have to agree to disagree if you think Goodell was more concerned with team's signals than the NFL's potential liability during discovery of rampant cheating by the team that had just won 3 of the last 4 Super Bowls. I'd bold that for emphasis, but I'm not trying to instigate. Just be emphatic. He's a corporate lawyer. Potential liability ALWAYS comes first.....always...

 

[DR RAM]

I disagree.

Goodell is an attorney and he should know that destruction of evidence creates tons of issues regarding corruption, coercion and complicity.

He;s not bound by law, he's bound by the NFL constitution. No laws were broken. NFL league rules were broken. So this is not evidence in a criminal case. He is the sole authority in issues involving rule violations and his determination is final. It can't be appealed or re-opened.

And again--the very existence of the tapes themselves violated league rules PLUS contained information about various teams and their signals etc. There is no reason for that stuff TO exist and potential bad outcomes if it DOES (ie what if it got leaked to an opponent of one of the teams that were taped).

And yes evidence is destroyed all the time if the evidence itself is something illegal, such as illicit drugs. Well. That's what the tapes were. Their very existence violated league rules.

Actually, with respect to evidence that's only true to an extent. It was destroyed BEFORE anyone could file a lawsuit, so no discovery could be instituted. Had that happened, Goodell would have HAD to produce all of the tapes. That's why the tapes were destroyed BEFORE he gave his ruling. That ensured that there was no chance he could be held in contempt of Congress or any judicial proceeding.

So, while it's true that he violated no rule of law, you're REALLY splitting hairs because that evidence would absolutely been germane in several lawsuits and potentially a Congressional Inquiry. At that point, had he not destroyed the tapes, their destruction would have been a crime.

As a matter of fact, he STILL may be convicted of a crime if other evidence somehow comes out because willful destruction of evidence to hamper a federal investigation is a felony. And with the NFL having that special anti-trust exemption, several Senators have wanted to investigate and haven't solely for lack of corroborating evidence. Should that emerge, Goodell would have to answer for destroying those tapes.

As a lawyer, he's betting that he's destroyed all the evidence. I don't buy the signal stuff for a second. Most coaches and systems don't last long enough for these tapes to retain their value after even 5 years. But they're still valuable as evidence of a felony.

My point is that there is NO danger of leakage if the tapes are truly secure in a safe that the Commissioner has access to and a proper chain of custody is maintained. We can secure nuclear materials, the private sector can secure diamond stores with billions, they can find a place to secure NFL tapes. Leakage is a red herring. Misdirection.

The destruction prevented further inquiries. That's it. No one opening the books of franchises. No one doing discovery into coaches lives and schedules. The NFL is incredibly insular and it doesn't surprise me that they brought the entire weight of not only the NFL, but the sports media down on that one camerman who dared to want to for a second tell the truth.

We'll have to agree to disagree if you think Goodell was more concerned with team's signals than the NFL's potential liability during discovery of rampant cheating by the team that had just won 3 of the last 4 Super Bowls. I'd bold that for emphasis, but I'm not trying to instigate. Just be emphatic. He's a corporate lawyer. Potential liability ALWAYS comes first.....always...

Nice points, and ownage.

 

[-X-]

Let's continue to play voyeur. :lol:

I disagree.

Goodell is an attorney and he should know that destruction of evidence creates tons of issues regarding corruption, coercion and complicity.

He;s not bound by law, he's bound by the NFL constitution. No laws were broken. NFL league rules were broken. So this is not evidence in a criminal case. He is the sole authority in issues involving rule violations and his determination is final. It can't be appealed or re-opened.

And again--the very existence of the tapes themselves violated league rules PLUS contained information about various teams and their signals etc. There is no reason for that stuff TO exist and potential bad outcomes if it DOES (ie what if it got leaked to an opponent of one of the teams that were taped).

And yes evidence is destroyed all the time if the evidence itself is something illegal, such as illicit drugs. Well. That's what the tapes were. Their very existence violated league rules.

Actually, with respect to evidence that's only true to an extent. It was destroyed BEFORE anyone could file a lawsuit, so no discovery could be instituted. Had that happened, Goodell would have HAD to produce all of the tapes. That's why the tapes were destroyed BEFORE he gave his ruling. That ensured that there was no chance he could be held in contempt of Congress or any judicial proceeding.

So, while it's true that he violated no rule of law, you're REALLY splitting hairs because that evidence would absolutely been germane in several lawsuits and potentially a Congressional Inquiry. At that point, had he not destroyed the tapes, their destruction would have been a crime.

As a matter of fact, he STILL may be convicted of a crime if other evidence somehow comes out because willful destruction of evidence to hamper a federal investigation is a felony. And with the NFL having that special anti-trust exemption, several Senators have wanted to investigate and haven't solely for lack of corroborating evidence. Should that emerge, Goodell would have to answer for destroying those tapes.

As a lawyer, he's betting that he's destroyed all the evidence. I don't buy the signal stuff for a second. Most coaches and systems don't last long enough for these tapes to retain their value after even 5 years. But they're still valuable as evidence of a felony.

My point is that there is NO danger of leakage if the tapes are truly secure in a safe that the Commissioner has access to and a proper chain of custody is maintained. We can secure nuclear materials, the private sector can secure diamond stores with billions, they can find a place to secure NFL tapes. Leakage is a red herring. Misdirection.

The destruction prevented further inquiries. That's it. No one opening the books of franchises. No one doing discovery into coaches lives and schedules. The NFL is incredibly insular and it doesn't surprise me that they brought the entire weight of not only the NFL, but the sports media down on that one camerman who dared to want to for a second tell the truth.

We'll have to agree to disagree if you think Goodell was more concerned with team's signals than the NFL's potential liability during discovery of rampant cheating by the team that had just won 3 of the last 4 Super Bowls. I'd bold that for emphasis, but I'm not trying to instigate. Just be emphatic. He's a corporate lawyer. Potential liability ALWAYS comes first.....always...

There's no grounds for a lawsuit. The league constitution gives the commissioner final and only and complete and irrevocable sway on judgements regarding rules violations. He's the investigator, prosecutor, judge, jury, and only appeals court. All teams agree to be bound by his decisions regarding rules violations. So the tapes serve no purpose.

Plus in fact you know it's not illegal to steal signals or to use that knowledge. What's illegal is one thing and one thing only--taping practices. So you don't even have to look at the tapes. You just go "what's on them" and once the answer is "taped practices" there's nothing else TO know. It's taping practices if you broadcast them to congresss, it's taping practices if you release them as a feature film, it's taping practices if you burn them. The rule was violated and that was that.

There were never going to be any further inquiries under any conditions or circumstances. The commissioner made a determination on a rules violation and forever closed the case--which he has the league-given authority and power to do. Moreover, there's nothing more to find on the tapes. The rule violated was taping practices. All you would ever find on those tapes was a repeat of that one determination. They are illegal tapes of practices. That's still true even if no one ever watched them. That's all anyone has to know and that's all they can ever reveal. It would be like exhuming the corpse of a man ruled dead by beheading to determine if he had been beheaded.

 

[Username]

There were never going to be any further inquiries under any conditions or circumstances. The commissioner made a determination on a rules violation and forever closed the case--which he has the league-given authority and power to do. Moreover, there's nothing more to find on the tapes. The rule violated was taping practices. All you would ever find on those tapes was a repeat of that one determination. They are illegal tapes of practices. That's still true even if no one ever watched them. That's all anyone has to know and that's all they can ever reveal. It would be like exhuming the corpse of a man ruled dead by beheading to determine if he had been beheaded.

1. How on earth could he know that?
2. Why destroy the fucking tapes then?

So I wonder if zn thinks that filming other teams practices gave the Patriots an advantage or not?

Is he on here anymore? Didn't some trauma go down with him here or something :lol:

 

[-X-]

There were never going to be any further inquiries under any conditions or circumstances. The commissioner made a determination on a rules violation and forever closed the case--which he has the league-given authority and power to do. Moreover, there's nothing more to find on the tapes. The rule violated was taping practices. All you would ever find on those tapes was a repeat of that one determination. They are illegal tapes of practices. That's still true even if no one ever watched them. That's all anyone has to know and that's all they can ever reveal. It would be like exhuming the corpse of a man ruled dead by beheading to determine if he had been beheaded.

1. How on earth could he know that?
2. Why destroy the fucking tapes then?

So I wonder if zn thinks that filming other teams practices gave the Patriots an advantage or not?

Is he on here anymore? Didn't some trauma go down with him here or something :lol:

Yeah, like Fisher/Ryan, we had some differences in philosophies. So he backed out.

 

[DR RAM]

There were never going to be any further inquiries under any conditions or circumstances. The commissioner made a determination on a rules violation and forever closed the case--which he has the league-given authority and power to do. Moreover, there's nothing more to find on the tapes. The rule violated was taping practices. All you would ever find on those tapes was a repeat of that one determination. They are illegal tapes of practices. That's still true even if no one ever watched them. That's all anyone has to know and that's all they can ever reveal. It would be like exhuming the corpse of a man ruled dead by beheading to determine if he had been beheaded.

1. How on earth could he know that?
2. Why destroy the fucking tapes then?

So I wonder if zn thinks that filming other teams practices gave the Patriots an advantage or not?

Is he on here anymore? Didn't some trauma go down with him here or something :lol:

Someone needs to be punched in the dick....it's all I'll say.

 

[Username]

Hahahahahaha Oh no :lol:

 

[Username]

From '08 <a class="postlink" href="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3244687" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3244687</a>

Goodell: Destroying Spygate tapes was 'right thing to do'
WASHINGTON -- Bill Belichick has been illegally taping opponents' defensive signals since he became the New England Patriots' coach in 2000, according to Sen. Arlen Specter, who said NFL commissioner Roger Goodell told him that during a meeting Wednesday.

"There was confirmation that there has been taping since 2000, when Coach Belichick took over," Specter said.

Specter said Goodell gave him that information during the 1-hour, 40-minute meeting, which was requested by Specter so the commissioner could explain his reasons for destroying the Spygate tapes and notes.

"There were a great many questions answered by Commissioner Goodell," Specter, the senior Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, told reporters after the meeting. "I found a lot of questions unanswerable because of the tapes and notes had been destroyed."

Goodell said Belichick told him he believed the taping was legal; Goodell said he did not concur.

"He said that's always been his interpretation since he's been the head coach," the commissioner said. "We are going to agree to disagree on the facts."

Specter, from Pennsylvania, wants to talk to other league officials about what exactly was taped and which games may have been compromised.

"We have a right to have honest football games," he said.

Goodell noted that "we were the ones that disclosed" the Patriots' illegal taping of the New York Jets' defensive signals in Week 1 of last season. Further, Goodell said, they had an admission by Belichick.

"I have nothing to hide," Goodell said.

Goodell also told Specter that that he doesn't regret destroying the Spygate tapes or the notes.

"I think it was the right thing to do," Goodell said.

Still, Specter wants to know why penalties were imposed on Belichick before the full extent of the wrongdoing was known and the tapes destroyed in a two-week span. Asked if he thinks there was a coverup, Specter demurred.

"There was an enormous amount of haste," Specter said.

He scoffed at the reasons Goodell gave for destroying the tapes and notes, particularly about trying to keep them out of competitors' hands and because Belichick had admitted to the taping.

"What's that got to do with it? There's an admission of guilt, you preserve the evidence," Specter said. As for keeping the tapes out of the hands of others: "All you have to do is lock up the tapes."

Belichick was fined $500,000 and the team was fined $250,000 because of the Spygate incident. The Patriots also forfeited a first-round draft pick.

Specter has questioned the quality of the NFL's investigation into the matter and raised the possibility of congressional hearings if he wasn't satisfied with Goodell's answers. Specter also raised the threat of Congress canceling the league's antitrust exemption and reiterated that in the meeting with Goodell.

A league official clarified to ESPN's Chris Mortensen that the NFL's current proposal to Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh includes a legal guarantee that he will not be sued by the league or the Patriots for any information or material he would provide to the NFL.

As Goodell said, the proposal stipulates that Walsh must be truthful and return anything he took improperly.

Walsh has had no response, according to Goodell.

Walsh told The Associated Press last week during the Pro Bowl in Hawaii that he couldn't talk about allegations that he taped a walkthrough practice by the St. Louis Rams before the 2002 Super Bowl. New England, a two-touchdown underdog, won that game 20-17.

Specter said he, too, wanted to talk to Walsh and perhaps offer a different deal.

Goodell also said he reserves the right to reopen the investigation if more information is uncovered.

 

[-X-]

Goodell also said he reserves the right to reopen the investigation if more information is uncovered.

Useless without the previous evidence. So say he reopens the case because now there's "more information." Well, how do you compound it with what was previously supplied to you? "Well, we have this new stuff, and when you add it to this old stuff ... oh wait."

"I have nothing to hide," Goodell said.

Re-hee-heeealllllllly.....

"I think it was the right thing to do," Goodell said.

Why? Now you don't have the evidence anymore and nobody can dispute it - especially if "more information is uncovered."

:neh: :evil: :amped:

 

[Ram_of_Old]

The monday morning after we lost was one of the worst of my life. It got even worse when a NFL line judge who is a good friend of mine came by and told me, "Anyone wearing red, white, and blue, was not going to lose on that field." Remember that this was just after 9/11. He said the refs basically let the DBs get away with murder. They mugged our wideouts and Faulk was continually held. It still chaps me...

 

[Username]

Still, Specter wants to know why penalties were imposed on Belichick before the full extent of the wrongdoing was known and the tapes destroyed in a two-week span. Asked if he thinks there was a coverup, Specter demurred.

"There was an enormous amount of haste," Specter said.

He scoffed at the reasons Goodell gave for destroying the tapes and notes, particularly about trying to keep them out of competitors' hands and because Belichick had admitted to the taping.

 

[Ram_of_Old]

Goodell is scum

 

[Selassie I]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVG1q49yPaY[/youtube]

 

[DR RAM]

Goodell also said he reserves the right to reopen the investigation if more information is uncovered.

Useless without the previous evidence. So say he reopens the case because now there's "more information." Well, how do you compound it with what was previously supplied to you? "Well, we have this new stuff, and when you add it to this old stuff ... oh wait."

"I have nothing to hide," Goodell said.

Re-hee-heeealllllllly.....

"I think it was the right thing to do," Goodell said.

Why? Now you don't have the evidence anymore and nobody can dispute it - especially if "more information is uncovered."

:neh: :evil: :amped:

Yeah, just think you missed one:

Walsh told The Associated Press last week during the Pro Bowl in Hawaii that he couldn't talk about allegations that he taped a walkthrough practice by the St. Louis Rams before the 2002 Super Bowl.

Gag order, payoff???

 

[Stranger]

The monday morning after we lost was one of the worst of my life. It got even worse when a NFL line judge who is a good friend of mine came by and told me, "Anyone wearing red, white, and blue, was not going to lose on that field." Remember that this was just after 9/11. He said the refs basically let the DBs get away with murder. They mugged our wideouts and Faulk was continually held. It still chaps me...

That's exactly what I've been saying since Vinateri kicked that last second FG.

And no way Belicheat pulled this off by himself. The final walkthrough was inside the stadium, this HAD to be be a conspiracy that involved NFL Security. It's one thing to tape signals during a regular season Jets game, it is quite another to try to do this a few months AFTER 9-11 when security was ridiculously tight everywhere, especially at that stadium.... do people recall just how tight security was for that game?

Goodell did the right thing alright, he protected the NFL's 32-owners. That's what he's paid to do, and he did it. He has absolutely no allegiance to the fans or anyone else.