Faced with Human Darkness, I get Lost

[IowaRam]

My ancestors came from Germany in the early 1800's and first settled in Illinois and then around 1870 my Great Great Grandparents moved here to NW Iowa and actually settled one of the earliest farms in the area

Spent alot of time in the Mediterranean Sea when I was in the Navy , never made it to Germany , which has always been a regret , but it was during the whole Ronald Reagan's "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!” era , so we were all advised to stay away

 

[Loyal]

My ancestors came from Germany in the early 1800's and first settled in Illinois and then around 1870 my Great Great Grandparents moved here to NW Iowa and actually settled one of the earliest farms in the area

Spent alot of time in the Mediterranean Sea when I was in the Navy , never made it to Germany , which has always been a regret , but it was during the whole Ronald Reagan's "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!” era , so we were all advised to stay away

My Dad's side moved from Tennessee to Missouri to Iowa/Nebraska in the 1850's. My 3 Great's Grandparents married in Fremont County, Iowa in 1854, and lived back and forth from Iowa to Nebraska and back, until the death of the patriarch in 1880. Then the family settled in Plattsmouth, NE to work for the Burlington RR, instead of farming..

 

[Prime Time]

Ever been to Germany ?

Yes, I was born there from German parents. My oldest brother still lives in Regensburg where I was born.

Btw in order to keep this thread from getting locked, avoid the words "Trump," "Obama," "Democrats," "Republicans," "Liberals," "Conservatives," "Alt-Right," "Alt-Left," "Snowflakes," etc. It's not that complicated.

 

[fearsomefour]

There has always been several historical era's that have fascinated me

The Dakota / Nebraska homesteaders of the 1860's -1880's , when a lot of people think of that era , think of cowboys and Indians , but it was the simple homesteaders that interested me the most , throw everything you own in the back of a wooden wagon and head out to the middle of the Dakota territory , where there is nothing , not a creek , not a tree , nothing , just to build a shelter out of dirk clumps you broke up with your one bottom plow , blazing hot summer , sub zero winters , no towns or medical facilities within a two day ride , what few neighbors you might of had probably even had less then you did , most never made it and packed it in with in two years , the few who did lead some pretty solitary lives

The other era that has always interested me was that Depression era / Gangsters / Prohibition / the Dust Bowl , The Waltons , basically that Bonnie and Clyde era , a lot of stuff was happening in the 1930's

World War 2 era was always fascinating to me.
Middle Ages/Dark Ages as well.
That and late 1880's--early 1900's America.

 

[VegasRam]

I was in Germany from '83-'87, where I met my wife, (who came to Germany from South Africa at age 20), and really enjoyed the country and the people. They are VERY VERY touchy (understandably) about the subject.

I will say, just my own opinion, having spent time in England, and with a lot of Brits in Holland and Germany, that Americans in general are more like the Germans in attitude and temperament than the English, despite (kinda lol) sharing a common language. Just my 2 cents. And not in any way a slam on the British - loved my time there and hanging with them

I did get a chance to go to West Berlin, and stand on a tower overlooking the wall. Very memorable experience. I'm telling you guys, when you looked over that wall, all you saw was grey - literally - not a splash or spot of color anywhere as far as the eye could see.

That's why the current president at that time will always be a hero to me.

(@Prime Time - Ich hoffe Ich habe nicht zu weit mit meine letze satz gegangen.)

 

[RamFan503]

But I have taken German I & II in College a couple of years ago and the instructor was from Germany..

But did you stay at a Holiday Inn?

 

[fearsomefour]

But did you stay at a Holiday Inn?

Ich haben aufenthalte auf eine Urlaub In.

 

[Prime Time]

(@Prime Time - Ich hoffe Ich habe nicht zu weit mit meine letze satz gegangen.)

 

[IowaRam]

 

[Prime Time]

I always hated that music along with German food. uke: Love the fräuleins though.

 

[IowaRam]

Speaking of music , up in Mankato MN on channel 12 KEYC , they have like one of the longest running non scripted TV shows in the country , it's on every Saturday morning at 11:00 , although it's been on several different times over the years , they've been running new shows every week continuously since 1960 , and still going

 

[Memento]

I always hated that music along with German food. uke: Love the fräuleins though.

Danke sehr!

 

[JonRam99]

Interesting thread, thanks @LoyalRam for posting & opening up about the human condition. There's some days I get depressed when I think too long about this. It's everywhere, just get 3 our more people together and 2 will turn on the other if their circumstances become somehow difficult or hard. I once worked for a growing company of 350, and while the bonuses were flowing, everyone was like "this is the best company ever, we're one big happy family!!" Then our major client reduced our work, the bonuses stopped, and the knives came out...

How we respond to hardships and injustices define our character -- who we are when no one's looking. Do we push on, even if others aren't pulling their weight? Do we keep on smiling even if others ridicule us for it? Do we reach out even if it makes us vulnerable to rejection? Would you even want to live in a world where there was only evil self serving monsters around every corner?

The hardest human problem is revenge. Ever been wronged, but then took matters into your own hands to settle the score? We're all capable of this. As you know 1945-6 in Europe was a nightmare in the aftermath of the fascists in Germany & Italy. Those locals who cavorted with them were drug out of their homes by angry mobs & shot in the streets. Some took advantage of the situation to settle old scores, falsely accusing their neighbours of helping the Nazis. Some did this just because they wanted to loot their neighbors' homes.

But when I get down, I remember that "there are yet 7000 that have not bowed the knee to Baal" -- I am not the only one who still believes in caring for others even if no one else does, or even if I've been wronged by them. Darkness is not stronger than light, it's just the absence of it.

But yeah, late 19th - early 20th c. America is a good place to dwell.

 

[Loyal]

Interesting thread, thanks @LoyalRam for posting & opening up about the human condition. There's some days I get depressed when I think too long about this. It's everywhere, just get 3 our more people together and 2 will turn on the other if their circumstances become somehow difficult or hard. I once worked for a growing company of 350, and while the bonuses were flowing, everyone was like "this is the best company ever, we're one big happy family!!" Then our major client reduced our work, the bonuses stopped, and the knives came out...

How we respond to hardships and injustices define our character -- who we are when no one's looking. Do we push on, even if others aren't pulling their weight? Do we keep on smiling even if others ridicule us for it? Do we reach out even if it makes us vulnerable to rejection? Would you even want to live in a world where there was only evil self serving monsters around every corner?

The hardest human problem is revenge. Ever been wronged, but then took matters into your own hands to settle the score? We're all capable of this. As you know 1945-6 in Europe was a nightmare in the aftermath of the fascists in Germany & Italy. Those locals who cavorted with them were drug out of their homes by angry mobs & shot in the streets. Some took advantage of the situation to settle old scores, falsely accusing their neighbours of helping the Nazis. Some did this just because they wanted to loot their neighbors' homes.

But when I get down, I remember that "there are yet 7000 that have not bowed the knee to Baal" -- I am not the only one who still believes in caring for others even if no one else does, or even if I've been wronged by them. Darkness is not stronger than light, it's just the absence of it.

But yeah, late 19th - early 20th c. America is a good place to dwell.

My faith is not as strong as yours. Although my research class this semester will cover late 19th century American issues and my final thesis will cover the same, I needed to take a class on the Holocaust this semester due to minimum credit requirements.

I identify with those packed into cattle cars so tightly there was no room to lie down. The boxcar doors were locked for three days until arriving at Auschwitz. Being someone, who was absolutely hopeless in such a case, was a living horror. People died next to you, which were more often than not the very young and the old. There was no food or water, and no where to move away from the filth, for three days. When the doors opened, they were stripped naked and marched in to take a Zyklon B shower. Ghouls waited to shave the heads of the dead and to pull out gold teeth with pliers. Their clothing, jewelry, shoes, eye glasses, and other belongings were added to massive piles of the same from other victims. I am reading one of the books for the class right now to get a head start on the material, and found myself saying "No..oh God no..." as Adolph Eichmann maneuvered the new Hungarian govt. into giving up their Jews in 1944. The previous Government had prevented deportations to death camps of their people, but now the coast was clear and the death camps ramped up to full extermination potential. It was slowed when Himmler, feared his exposure to the Final Solution after Germany lost the war, and so ordered Eichmann to stop. Eichmann ignored Himmler because he had a goal that would not be frustrated, even by his boss. He marched thousands upon thousands toward death camps in Poland, since Himmler stopped the box car transportation. Of course, the slow, the weak, the sick, were executed where they fell......Eichmann later said in Argentina that if there were 10.5 million Jews in Europe, he would be satisfied with killing all 10.5 million "enemies" of Germany without any regrets.

So I hear you about hard times tempering character, but sometimes the darkness is so complete... I can't help but think the Jews killed in 1944 might have been saved if the Normandy Invasion had happened a year earlier. Sometimes the land is too far away while you desperately swim towards it, and the swimmer breaths in water...JMHO.

 

[JonRam99]

My faith is not as strong as yours. Although my research class this semester will cover late 19th century American issues and my final thesis will cover the same, I needed to take a class on the Holocaust this semester due to minimum credit requirements.

I identify with those packed into cattle cars so tightly there was no room to lie down. The boxcar doors were locked for three days until arriving at Auschwitz. Being someone, who was absolutely hopeless in such a case, was a living horror. People died next to you, which were more often than not the very young and the old. There was no food or water, and no where to move away from the filth, for three days. When the doors opened, they were stripped naked and marched in to take a Zyklon B shower. Ghouls waited to shave the heads of the dead and to pull out gold teeth with pliers. Their clothing, jewelry, shoes, eye glasses, and other belongings were added to massive piles of the same from other victims. I am reading one of the books for the class right now to get a head start on the material, and found myself saying "No..oh God no..." as Adolph Eichmann maneuvered the new Hungarian govt. into giving up their Jews in 1944. The previous Government had prevented deportations to death camps of their people, but now the coast was clear and the death camps ramped up to full extermination potential. It was slowed when Himmler, feared his exposure to the Final Solution after Germany lost the war, and so ordered Eichmann to stop. Eichmann ignored Himmler because he had a goal that would not be frustrated, even by his boss. He marched thousands upon thousands toward death camps in Poland, since Himmler stopped the box car transportation. Of course, the slow, the weak, the sick, were executed where they fell......Eichmann later said in Argentina that if there were 10.5 million Jews in Europe, he would be satisfied with killing all 10.5 million "enemies" of Germany without any regrets.

So I hear you about hard times tempering character, but sometimes the darkness is so complete... I can't help but think the Jews killed in 1944 might have been saved if the Normandy Invasion had happened a year earlier. Sometimes the land is too far away while you desperately swim towards it, and the swimmer breaths in water...JMHO.

Wow, what a dark time that was over there. Dark times have been everywhere; I especially get depressed thinking about America in the aftermath of the Civil War, when the Reconstruction effort steadily dwindled as the costs got higher & higher, and Congress lost it's determination to help & protect the new freedmen as they integrated into their local communities. Decades of wicked Jim Crow quickly filled the vacuum of the failed Reconstruction effort.

Anyway, history books are stuffed with accounts of wars, genocides, atrocities, etc., but they are what they are -- history books. Ussher's Annals of the World is especially bad; just read some of it the other day, how avoidable the destruction of Jerusalem could've been if not for an incompetent Roman Governor (Florus) who allowed Judea to deteriorate into rebellion in order to cover up his own incompetence. But history books aren't a complete documentary of human life, as much of the great things we have accomplished over the centuries go unnoticed & uncelebrated. You probably have someone who lives right next to you who diligently takes care of an Alzheimer's parent, etc. So keep looking up!

 

[IowaRam]

They always say , History Books were written by the winners

 

[Loyal]

They always say , History Book were written by the winners

That's why you read primary sources from both the winners and the losers to determine balance. A book is just a secondary source.

 

[badnews]

I have always been fascinated and simultaneously horrified with our own eras of unimaginable darkness here in the States.
The Civil War and how it played out is like a nightmare. Everything that could go wrong did and while almost no one wanted war, it came to them anyways. Its chilling.
My interest is particularly on the western border, Bleeding Kansas, Quantrill, Order #11 and the James-Younger gang.
Also, the Conquest of the New World is as dark and troubling as it gets, but damn it is fascinating.

 

[fearsomefour]

That's why you read primary sources from both the winners and the losers to determine balance. A book is just a secondary source.

Which is why the whole damned to repeat it thing never stops....

 

[IowaRam]

A generation which ignores history has no past — and no future