Eric Dickerson on Goff vs. Mannion

[dieterbrock]

You can't step up with no run game no offensive line no wide receivers just can't happen especially when you running a pro style offense no if it was a spread system which is notoriously QB friendly just ask Keenum then it would be different

Goff had no running game, o-line and certainly didn't have a Markus Wheaton or Brandin Cooks to throw to
And the pro style offense excuse doesn't hold water. Goff had only 70 more PA than Mannion in their final season, which is 5 PA more per game. And with that, it led to almost 1,600 more yards and 28 more td passes.
In Mannion best year he threw over 600 passes, Goff never came close to that

Mannion last 2 season:
682/1056 7826 yd 52td 23 int
Goff last 2 season:
657/1038 8687 yd 78 td 20 int

So Mannion threw more passes per game with significantly less success
Even threw more picks

 

[dieterbrock]

Where do people get this mediocre arm from. We have gone over this so many times Goff velocity is 1 point higher then Mannions, Mannion throws a much better deep ball their accuracy and arm strength is about even so if Mannion arm is mediocre so is Goffs.

You say he is slow footed but Mannion knows how to move in the pocket to shift his shoulders and slide around the pocket to get his throw off something Goff hasn't shown the ability to do.

Goff is much better outside the pocket throwing running but inside the pocket Mannion is the better QB

Then you mention the training camps Mannion was on scout team basically every year because Fisher don't start rookie QBs he wanted Mannion to learn the ropes this is basically Mannions first real training camp just like Goff

Because he doesn't have a strong arm. He has an elongated release that he needs to step in to his throw, which is fine for downfield throws. Even Keenum can throw it 50+ downfield. True arm strength is when he doesn't set his feet, or throw across the field, he throws up dying quails

 

[Prime Time]

I'm out here in Punta Cana for my wife's birthday

You lucky bastard. Why are you wasting time chatting here at ROD? Get in the spa, dude!

Btw tell your wife Happy Birthday from the gang at ROD.

 

[Dxmissile]

Goff had no running game, o-line and certainly didn't have a Markus Wheaton or Brandin Cooks to throw to
And the pro style offense excuse doesn't hold water. Goff had only 70 more PA than Mannion in their final season, which is 5 PA more per game. And with that, it led to almost 1,600 more yards and 28 more td passes.
In Mannion best year he threw over 600 passes, Goff never came close to that

Goff throw over 15, 000 passes in 3 yrs Mannion had 18,000 in 4 yrs his best year was when him and Cooks was unstoppable so they had him throw more that was the only year he throw more then 500 passes Goff did that every year. Spread vs pro isn't about the pass attempts it's about the simplicity of the offense to make it easier on the QB and the WRS. It's route concepts and having a predetermined throw on every play.

They had the same completion percentage and Goff rating was 144 compared to Mannions 135 and Mannion played in the harder system

 

[Dxmissile]

Because he doesn't have a strong arm. He has an elongated release that he needs to step in to his throw, which is fine for downfield throws. Even Keenum can throw it 50+ downfield. True arm strength is when he doesn't set his feet, or throw across the field, he throws up dying quails

I saw a lot of dying quails from Goff inside the pocket all of his deep throws went out of bounds. I clearly said Goff was better outside the pocket but he gotta learn how to play inside the pocket. He is too tall for all the batted balls he had that's because he don't know how to work the pocket to get his throw off. Now maybe all of that is corrected this year but until we see it I can only go off what I have seen

 

[Dxmissile]

You lucky bastard. Why are you wasting time chatting here at ROD? Get in the spa, dude!

Btw tell your wife Happy Birthday from the gang at ROD.

Lol she said thanks

 

[dieterbrock]

Goff throw over 15, 000 passes in 3 yrs Mannion had 18,000 in 4 yrs his best year was when him and Cooks was unstoppable so they had him throw more that was the only year he throw more then 500 passes Goff did that every year. Spread vs pro isn't about the pass attempts it's about the simplicity of the offense to make it easier on the QB and the WRS. It's route concepts and having a predetermined throw on every play.

They had the same completion percentage and Goff rating was 144 compared to Mannions 135 and Mannion played in the harder system

Mannion threw 603 passes in 2013, Goff career high was 530
Its volume passing compared to volume passing. Cant sell than Mannion played in a tougher system when he had the better WR and threw the ball more

You missed my edit
Mannion last 2 season:
682/1056 7826 yd 52td 23 int
Goff last 2 season:
657/1038 8687 yd 78 td 20 int

So Mannion threw more passes per game with significantly less success
Even threw more picks

 

[LesBaker]

Lol this is the perfect case everybody was applauding Dickerson last year but as soon as it's Mannion vs Goff all hell breaks loose. Lol he only said what I have been saying for the longest.

I wasn't applauding him, I thought it was pretty low. His tone was always too bitchy to me.

 

[Loyal]

I respect what you're saying but you're making assumptions about Mannion's ability he'll for that matter we both are. I think Mannion is better you think Goff is better. You said that Mannion don't instill fear in opposing coordinators which is true because he haven't played but we KNOW Goff doesn't because he had 7 games. And since Goff is the better QB he should have looked better then Mannion and should have performed better no matter the circumstances the offense got worse when Goff played. That's not all on the coaches not all on scheme a lot of that has to be put on Goff too.

I'm happy that Goff is getting all the reps but Mannion has been getting a lot too more then he has at any point of his career. I firmly believe that's why McVay and co only wanted to have those two on the roster to give them both as many reps as possible.

I know Goff is better then I think, but Mannion is better then you give him credit for too

The feel of this thread is that we are diminishing Mannion to exalt Goff, when that's anything but the truth. Both are Rams, so we ALL hope that both succeed. Most, including McVay, think Goff has greater potential than Mannion's. I say McVay, because he has already named Goff as the #1 with the understanding that there will be a battle and that the best player will play. Just to be clear, I asked in Mannion's draft, "why not him?" as our QB for the future. So I am not a hater....

Their origins are different, but Kurt Warner was that backup QB (he might have been a #3 QB) in 1998, just as Mannion was essentially last year. No one saw anything special in Kurt Warner, except that when he ran the scout team, the ball didn't hit the turf. He was named Scout team player of the year in 1998, yet they exposed him before 99' to be nabbed by another team. We know what happened after that....Has anyone said anything similar to that '98 Kurt Warner about the 2016 version of Sean Mannion? Sure I am comparing Mannion to a HOFer which some say might not be fair, but no one had a clue about the future of '98 Kurt Warner either. IF Mannion is to wrest the starters role from a QB that has a quicker release and better footwork,he will have to be a phenom in the limited chances that he gets. He has to get the opportunity and not give it up. He will not get the breaks or chances to succeed that Goff will get, which isn't fair..but it is what it is..If Goff gets the starters role and doesn't give it up, Cleveland is always looking for a QB and a 2nd rounder would be nice for Mr Mannion.

 

[LesBaker]

He didn't bring in people to coach up a young QB

He actually did and there was robust debate about their qualifications.

They also recognized the fact they were moving into a new market they needed a face to the organization and it being a QB league decided that face should be a blonde haired California born QB.

I liked a lot of your post but I've never bought into this theory of getting Goff because he is a California boy. The Rams know that's not going to sell tickets, winning will. They drafted Goff because they were desperate for a QB. If he was a "draw" why were there so many empty seats at home games that had already been paid for?

The Rams has shit at QB and did a deal to get a guy they think is a future franchise QB, or very close to it anyway.

I clearly stated in my post "If Mannion looks better than Goff he should start." I seen what Jared can do and that's all I can judge him on. In my mind there's still at least HOPE for Sean.

I agree, if he is playing better football he should be on the field. Nothing else matters.

 

[OldSchool]

He actually did and there was robust debate about their qualifications.

I made a comparison in another thread of the coaching surrounding Wentz, Prescott and Goff. Nobody who looked at those numbers could even attempt to say Goff had coaching to succeed.

I liked a lot of your post but I've never bought into this theory of getting Goff because he is a California boy. The Rams know that's not going to sell tickets, winning will. They drafted Goff because they were desperate for a QB. If he was a "draw" why were there so many empty seats at home games that had already been paid for?

The Rams has crap at QB and did a deal to get a guy they think is a future franchise QB, or very close to it anyway.

Never said it was the reason but a reason. Winning cures all which is what I said Fisher wanted to do, not groom a QB for the future. As for the empty seats we all know why attendance dropped at the end of the year.

 

[Memphis Ram]

The feel of this thread is that we are diminishing Mannion to exalt Goff, when that's anything but the truth. Both are Rams, so we ALL hope that both succeed. Most, including McVay, think Goff has greater potential than Mannion's. I say McVay, because he has already named Goff as the #1 with the understanding that there will be a battle and that the best player will play. Just to be clear, I asked in Mannion's draft, "why not him?" as our QB for the future. So I am not a hater.....

Given the expenditure made to obtain Goff, my guess is that McVay wouldn't have even been hired if Goff wasn't locked into being the #1 QB. Or even considered if they didn't think they could develop him. In other words, that decision was made even prior to his arrival.

 

[Loyal]

Given the expenditure made to obtain Goff, my guess is that McVay wouldn't have even been hired if Goff wasn't locked into being the #1 QB. In other words, that decision was made even prior to his arrival.

Of course from the Ram's perspective, the new HC would have to bring the inner franchise QB from Goff. But that doesn't mean McVay didn't believe that Goff was that QB we all dream of to lead the Rams. It's too cynical to believe that McVay whored himself out, just for a HC gig with the Ram's.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Of course from the Ram's perspective, the new HC would have to bring the inner franchise QB from Goff. But that doesn't mean McVay didn't believe that Goff was that QB we all dream of to lead the Rams. It's too cynical to believe that McVay whored himself out, just for a HC gig with the Ram's.

It doesn't mean that he does either. He might. But, he also could simply hope that he's that guy and that he can develop him. But, in the end, there are only 32 NFL HC jobs in the entire world and he'd be crazy to pass on the opportunity to nab one of them given his chosen field.

 

[Loyal]

It doesn't mean that he does either. He might. But, he also could simply hope that he's that guy and that he can develop him. But, in the end, there are only 32 NFL HC jobs in the entire world and he'd be crazy to pass on the opportunity to nab one of them given his chosen field.

At the time, I believe McVay was wanted by the 49ers, so it wasn't the only possibility. The difference? Rams have a QB.

 

[Memphis Ram]

At the time, I believe McVay was wanted by the 49ers, so it wasn't the only possibility. The difference? Rams have a QB.

Did the 49ers make an offer to him? Or did they just interview him?
Either way, that's Goff vs. what's on the 49ers roster. Not Goff vs. what's on the Rams roster.

And again my guess is that anything suggesting an open competition during his interviews and he wouldn't be the Rams HC.

 

[Loyal]

Did the 49ers make an offer to him? Or did they just interview him?
Either way, that's Goff vs. what's on the 49ers roster. Not Goff vs. what's on the Rams roster.

And again my guess is that anything suggesting an open competition during his interviews and he wouldn't be the Rams HC.

I only brought up the 49ers to say the Rams were not the only team considering McVay. McVay was also telling teams that he would bring Wade Phillips with him. McVay had to sell himself to Kroenke, Snead and others..Snead was blown away by how prepared this "kid" was, which did include his plans to develop Goff. As you say, the Rams wanted a QB whisperer and a offensive genius. While neither of us can say the other is wrong absolutely. McVay doesn't seem to be a deceiver, but a true believer in Jared Goff. He says what he says about the best player plays, as motivation for competition, but he came here to develop Jared Goff, not to sit him.

 

[LesBaker]

I made a comparison in another thread of the coaching surrounding Wentz, Prescott and Goff. Nobody who looked at those numbers could even attempt to say Goff had coaching to succeed.

Goff's coaches versus the other two I can't say I don't know. But they did bring guys ion to work with him. Wentz is going to fall apart next year IMO. I didn't like what I saw in highlights from him during his college career. I like Prescott, but he will ALWAYS have the Cowboys stink on him so I cannot root for the guy even though I know he is a good guy.

Never said it was the reason but a reason. Winning cures all which is what I said Fisher wanted to do, not groom a QB for the future. As for the empty seats we all know why attendance dropped at the end of the year.

I must have misunderstood then, my bad. I thought you were saying that was the reason or primary reason why they drafted him.

Attendance dropping happens when a team is losing. Official attendance figures versus turnstile figures are often very different too of course.

I hope Goff turns the Rams around, or at least becomes a big reason why they become relevant and in the discussion or whatever cliche fits. I'm just sick of the losing and the shitshow LOL.

 

[LesBaker]

Goff throw over 15, 000 passes in 3 yrs Mannion had 18,000 in 4 yrs

Damn, that is some pass happy playcalling right there!!!