Ebola

[LesBaker]

i hope it goes airborne and wipes us all out.

and I think you should suck on the snotty end of my fuck stick

did we both miss out on the blue font

 

[ShaneFalco]

lol

 

[Mojo Ram]

i hope it goes airborne and wipes us all out.

So your gynecology tests will remain in a locked file cabinet? Good thinking.

 

[LosAngelesRams]

i hope it goes airborne and wipes us all out.

Such a troll post.

 

[ShaneFalco]

or just a joke

 

[Ramhusker]

Ebola ain't no joke now. It's airborne and seemingly carried by animals as well.

 

[Mojo Ram]

 

[bluecoconuts]

Ebola ain't no joke now. It's airborne and seemingly carried by animals as well.

Its not airborne, don't worry.

 

[Thordaddy]

CDC has admitted that Ebola can be spread through droplets

http://nypost.com/2014/10/29/cdc-admits-droplets-from-a-sneeze-could-spread-ebola/

I spent lunch yesterday discussing whether Ebola was a serious threat or fear mongering with a friend who is a recently retired head of physicians and former university medical school head of admissions. He was emphatic that most of the assurances we are getting are spin, inaccurate and not reliable. He said that we are unsure what the true incubation period is, that it varies between people that what has contained it more is that it kills fast and has been prevented from spreading mostly BECAUSE it has been kept out of metropolitan areas .He also said there is no reliable science that indicates when during the "incubation period" a person becomes contagious,that like ALL viruses the condition of your immune system can mask your danger to others even after you are contagious because a weakened immune system will manifest symptoms sooner a healthy one will manifest later when both people would be equally contagious.

 

[bluecoconuts]

CDC has admitted that Ebola can be spread through droplets

http://nypost.com/2014/10/29/cdc-admits-droplets-from-a-sneeze-could-spread-ebola/

I spent lunch yesterday discussing whether Ebola was a serious threat or fear mongering with a friend who is a recently retired head of physicians and former university medical school head of admissions. He was emphatic that most of the assurances we are getting are spin, inaccurate and not reliable. He said that we are unsure what the true incubation period is, that it varies between people that what has contained it more is that it kills fast and has been prevented from spreading mostly BECAUSE it has been kept out of metropolitan areas .He also said there is no reliable science that indicates when during the "incubation period" a person becomes contagious,that like ALL viruses the condition of your immune system can mask your danger to others even after you are contagious because a weakened immune system will manifest symptoms sooner a healthy one will manifest later when both people would be equally contagious.

That article is borderline false with how far they push that. They're trying to push the narrative, there's a reason why most actual experts aren't worried at all. I was discussing it with a family member who's a surgeon, and he was laughing at all the BS going around. Hell, Europe is in far more of a threat than us, and they're laughing at how much we're panicking over this.

 

[Thordaddy]

That article is borderline false with how far they push that. They're trying to push the narrative, there's a reason why most actual experts aren't worried at all. I was discussing it with a family member who's a surgeon, and he was laughing at all the BS going around. Hell, Europe is in far more of a threat than us, and they're laughing at how much we're panicking over this.

Whoever your friend might be and whatever "narrative " he and you accept, dead is dead ,and the chances of recovery from the disease are trending that way,I find the way you characterize Europe as a monolith to be in consort with the "narrative" you decide to accept.

A lot of people were certain AIDS would never be a problem in this country ( and BTW this disease can be and is spread the same way) ,those who choose to laugh at the possibilities of this threat can do so at their own peril but when they do it at the peril of others are nothing short of criminally negligent if their responsibilities include protecting others from it.

I don't accept your summation and dismissal of the article as "borderline false" ,it's one or the other , if a sneeze doesn't contain the virus it doesn't if it does it does ,no in between for wiggle room .

If you want to discuss this in a civil manner we can but terms like BS, charges of bias to push a "narrative" don't accomplish that, I used those terms back at you to illustrate how charged your response was.

What my friend was saying is that these "actual experts " you refer to are on very shaky ground largely because Ebola outbreaks haven't been cured through "modern" medical practices they have died off on their own because of their remote locations and through some pretty crude practices i.e. burning bodies ,violating civil rights that even as we speak practices of which are being contested in the state of Maine.

There is a difference between "panic" and taking a deadly threat seriously, and for what it is worth there are a great many learned people who think it's a deadly threat ,terming their efforts to assure public safety in light of it in pejorative terms like that doesn't serve any of us.

We may well stem any threat from this but I doubt laughing at it will geterdun.

 

[LazyWinker]

What my friend was saying is that these "actual experts " you refer to are on very shaky ground largely because Ebola outbreaks haven't been cured through "modern" medical practices they have died off on their own because of their remote locations and through some pretty crude practices i.e. burning bodies ,violating civil rights that even as we speak practices of which are being contested in the state of Maine.

I think the chances of surviving Ebola are pretty high in the United States. I wouldn't want it though.

The thing in Maine is a odd. I believe the nurse thinks she knows more than the CDC. I haven't really heard anyone say that she is right. I feel bad for her boyfriend because he's either blinded by love or genuinely stupid. If I thought there was a chance my woman was carrying Ebola, I would refrain from swapping bodily fluids. I could be wrong but I think you can get it from coming into contact with someone's sweat.

 

[Thordaddy]

I think the chances of surviving Ebola are pretty high in the United States. I wouldn't want it though.

The thing in Maine is a odd. I believe the nurse thinks she knows more than the CDC. I haven't really heard anyone say that she is right. I feel bad for her boyfriend because he's either blinded by love or genuinely stupid. If I thought there was a chance my woman was carrying Ebola, I would refrain from swapping bodily fluids. I could be wrong but I think you can get it from coming into contact with someone's sweat.

Probably the most common way virus are spread is through hand contact where the infecting person has been to their nose out of habit and the infected party transmits it to their own nose likewise.
One of the things I've learned over the course of treatment for Leukemia is " be aware of how many times you touch your face with unclean hands" , another thing I've leaned is that many Drs. are pretty clueless about fields in which they don't practice .

As far as "chances of surviving" Ebola goes , are you saying recovering from or not getting infected? because once in a metropolitan area and undetected the spread rate would be exponential vs. a rural/remote area.

I think it's pretty telling that our military is taking the measures they are as far as quarantine goes . My son has a HS best friend who was just shipped out to western Africa, he is a medic ,his parents are gravely concerned as I would be.

 

[Sum1]

 

[bluecoconuts]

Whoever your friend might be and whatever "narrative " he and you accept, dead is dead ,and the chances of recovery from the disease are trending that way,I find the way you characterize Europe as a monolith to be in consort with the "narrative" you decide to accept.

A lot of people were certain AIDS would never be a problem in this country ( and BTW this disease can be and is spread the same way) ,those who choose to laugh at the possibilities of this threat can do so at their own peril but when they do it at the peril of others are nothing short of criminally negligent if their responsibilities include protecting others from it.

I don't accept your summation and dismissal of the article as "borderline false" ,it's one or the other , if a sneeze doesn't contain the virus it doesn't if it does it does ,no in between for wiggle room .

If you want to discuss this in a civil manner we can but terms like BS, charges of bias to push a "narrative" don't accomplish that, I used those terms back at you to illustrate how charged your response was.

What my friend was saying is that these "actual experts " you refer to are on very shaky ground largely because Ebola outbreaks haven't been cured through "modern" medical practices they have died off on their own because of their remote locations and through some pretty crude practices i.e. burning bodies ,violating civil rights that even as we speak practices of which are being contested in the state of Maine.

There is a difference between "panic" and taking a deadly threat seriously, and for what it is worth there are a great many learned people who think it's a deadly threat ,terming their efforts to assure public safety in light of it in pejorative terms like that doesn't serve any of us.

We may well stem any threat from this but I doubt laughing at it will geterdun.

What my family member, who again is an actual medical doctor says is not pushing a narrative, especially to his own family, but telling the truth. However the NY Post, which is trying to make money has a reason to push the "all panic" button, it makes them money. If you wish to freak out and worry then by all means. There's a reason why we don't have a huge ebola outbreak, because it's not that easy to catch.

The New York Post is trying to make it seem like the virus is airborne, they word it that way intentionally. For you to catch it that way, you'd have to be near someone who had the virus, then they would have to hack up a bit wet cough, and then you'd have to touch the mucus and spit and then put it in your mouth. Then unless you had a really weak immune system you'd have to refuse medical treatment to die. Which is why when it was in Dallas and New York (two big metropolitian areas) and on a plane back and fourth from Dallas and Ohio there wasn't a sudden huge outbreak.

Trends aren't going towards death, we had one guy die and everyone else is either cured or stable. We have a good system and its working.

So yes, the Post is trying to push that narrative and yes all the media panic is bullshit to draw attention and make money. There are so many more deadly viruses out there, the bird flu and swine flu killed in the thousands in the United States. That doesn't mean Ebola isn't a serious disease, it means if you feel sick go to a doctor and get checked out, if you don't then relax and go about your lives. Unless you work in direct proximity of Ebola victims, or like to eat random persons body fluids, you'll be fine.

And tell your sons friends parents their boy will be fine, the Army will take care of him, their SOP will make it very unlikely he gets infected, and if he does he'll have top treatment right away.

 

[Thordaddy]

What my family member, who again is an actual medical doctor says is not pushing a narrative, especially to his own family, but telling the truth. However the NY Post, which is trying to make money has a reason to push the "all panic" button, it makes them money. If you wish to freak out and worry then by all means. There's a reason why we don't have a huge ebola outbreak, because it's not that easy to catch.

The New York Post is trying to make it seem like the virus is airborne, they word it that way intentionally. For you to catch it that way, you'd have to be near someone who had the virus, then they would have to hack up a bit wet cough, and then you'd have to touch the mucus and spit and then put it in your mouth. Then unless you had a really weak immune system you'd have to refuse medical treatment to die. Which is why when it was in Dallas and New York (two big metropolitian areas) and on a plane back and fourth from Dallas and Ohio there wasn't a sudden huge outbreak.

Trends aren't going towards death, we had one guy die and everyone else is either cured or stable. We have a good system and its working.

So yes, the Post is trying to push that narrative and yes all the media panic is bullcrap to draw attention and make money. There are so many more deadly viruses out there, the bird flu and swine flu killed in the thousands in the United States. That doesn't mean Ebola isn't a serious disease, it means if you feel sick go to a doctor and get checked out, if you don't then relax and go about your lives. Unless you work in direct proximity of Ebola victims, or like to eat random persons body fluids, you'll be fine.

And tell your sons friends parents their boy will be fine, the Army will take care of him, their SOP will make it very unlikely he gets infected, and if he does he'll have top treatment right away.

There is a cure? People have been cured? People have recovered but there is no cure, a percentage do recover ,about 10%, that is a 90% mortality rate , I'd say that is "trending " toward death.

I find it amusing you have the ability to know peoples motives well enough to make the charges you do ,sounds like mind reading to me ,quite a talent .
Again though IF there IS a narrative there are two and you seem to be pushing one of them and using a lot of emotional terms to do it, as I said I'd give you a chance to discuss this civilly if you'd drop the emotional rhetoric ,but you simply reiterated using the same charged words so I won't be responding to any more of that. Not that I intend to abandon the thread but as long as you are going to term what others say as "bullcrap" I know I'm not dealing with someone who has any interest in entertaining any POV but their own .
BTW I guess you know that you did outline a scenario under which the article was accurate and were conditions that are not at all uncommon especially in large cities on public transport systems, I'm not" freaking out" FWIW I live in a rural area have my own water supply and am capable of being isolated from any outside contact for extended periods if some disaster or weaponization of such a thing were to occur .

My friend who BTW is an "actual medical doctor" and is married to an "actual medical doctor" his specialty cardiology ,his wife head of hyperbarics in the wound center , who I discussed it with and I also discussed the mutation aspect. In the Clancy book the strain of virus that was weaponized became weaker each succeeding generation after having left the original host organism and after about as I recall three generations it became no more lethal than the common cold , however that is something that won't be known unless and until the current outbreak has made those progressions ,he pointed out that virus can and do mutate both ways and that there is the possibility that this one could possibly mutate TO an ability to be more communicable,shorter incubation period .
As far as my friends go ,I do think the military will err on the side of caution and as I understand has already taken a tac that is divergent from the civilian plans so it is my hope that the kid will be fine ,but that is something none of us can know ,so I won't purport to.

 

[bluecoconuts]

There is a cure? People have been cured? People have recovered but there is no cure, a percentage do recover ,about 10%, that is a 90% mortality rate , I'd say that is "trending " toward death.

I find it amusing you have the ability to know peoples motives well enough to make the charges you do ,sounds like mind reading to me ,quite a talent .
Again though IF there IS a narrative there are two and you seem to be pushing one of them and using a lot of emotional terms to do it, as I said I'd give you a chance to discuss this civilly if you'd drop the emotional rhetoric ,but you simply reiterated using the same charged words so I won't be responding to any more of that. Not that I intend to abandon the thread but as long as you are going to term what others say as "bullcrap" I know I'm not dealing with someone who has any interest in entertaining any POV but their own .
BTW I guess you know that you did outline a scenario under which the article was accurate and were conditions that are not at all uncommon especially in large cities on public transport systems, I'm not" freaking out" FWIW I live in a rural area have my own water supply and am capable of being isolated from any outside contact for extended periods if some disaster or weaponization of such a thing were to occur .

My friend who BTW is an "actual medical doctor" and is married to an "actual medical doctor" his specialty cardiology ,his wife head of hyperbarics in the wound center , who I discussed it with and I also discussed the mutation aspect. In the Clancy book the strain of virus that was weaponized became weaker each succeeding generation after having left the original host organism and after about as I recall three generations it became no more lethal than the common cold , however that is something that won't be known unless and until the current outbreak has made those progressions ,he pointed out that virus can and do mutate both ways and that there is the possibility that this one could possibly mutate TO an ability to be more communicable,shorter incubation period .
As far as my friends go ,I do think the military will err on the side of caution and as I understand has already taken a tac that is divergent from the civilian plans so it is my hope that the kid will be fine ,but that is something none of us can know ,so I won't purport to.

So the just to make things clear, I'm not to use these "charged words" to have a conversation, but you can essentially talk down to me as if I'm just someone who can't see it? Because that's not the way this works.

You posted the article, I said the article was essentially bunk, because they are trying to make it seem like Ebola is airborne and it's not. The media has an interest in hyping up Ebola to be more than it is, they get more attention and thus get them more money. It is a pretty standard tactic in democratic states and used to be used by the government and has been adopted by media outlets recently especially here in the U.S. Which is why you see media outlets talking about how it can become airborne or mutate or any of that. The actual risk of that happening is so incredibly low, why talk about it? There has yet to be a virus that causes diseases in humans to mutate to change how is is transmitted, so what are the chances Ebola will be the first? Not very much, we have a better chance of being killed off by a gamma ray burst or an astroid or something similar like that. The only reason why the media is hung up on Ebola is because it's the boogie man they can point to right now.

My uncle has over 30 years working, he specializes in respiratory issues, throats and lungs and such, he's got a pretty good underatanding on things, and given that he, like the vast majority, agree that as long as we avoid eating other peoples body fluids, especially if they may be exposed, we should be just fine. What happens in a fiction book means pretty much nothing when discussing what is actually going on here. Weponization of Ebola would be incredibly expensive, it would have to be a more developed state with access to money and equipment/labs to have any potential to do any real damage to a western state, and even then there would be far more effective ways to do greater damage if that was their goal. A small group wouldn't be able to get nearly enough of it, and they would more than likely be unable to manipulate it, and would be more in danger from it than their target. It makes for a good fiction book, but its not pratical in the real world. We have as much of a chance being killed by weponized Ebola as we do being killed by a lightsaber.

Also when you talk about mortality rates, look at the conditions. The mortality rate in Africa means nothing to us here. We have established institutions, better trained and equipped medical teams, we are far better prepared to handle the disease, which is why we have had one guy die from Ebola. Everyone else is either stable and recoverying or cured. And yes, if they no longer have the disease it means they are cured. Cured≠ we have cure specifically designed to be a one shot fix for the disease.

 

[Thordaddy]

So your "authority" is basically contending that those who HAVE contracted Ebola ATE THE BODILY FLUIDS OF OTHERS ? if that's what I have to do ,it must be what they did.

Ebola Home > Is There a Cure for Ebola?



Is There a Cure for Ebola?
There is no cure for Ebola that can kill the virus; however, research scientists are working on a new vaccine that may prevent infection, or at least hemorrhagic fever. When symptoms of Ebola do begin, healthcare providers can only offer supportive care while the body fights the infection.
Ebola. There are currently no proven treatment options that can kill the Ebola virus, and there is no vaccine that can prevent an infection.

Ebola virus. When symptoms do develop, healthcare providers can only offer supportive care. This involves treating symptoms and complications of Ebola while the body fights the infection. Supportive care can include:

• Good nursing care
• Oxygen and devices that help with breathing
• Intravenous (IV) fluids to maintain fluids and electrolytes
• Medications to control fever, help the blood clot, and maintainblood pressure
• Antibiotics to prevent secondary infections.
  

Despite supportive care, 50 to 90 percent of people do not survive the infection.

Ebola research scientists have focused their efforts on developing a new vaccine. This may prevent hemorrhagic fever from developing, but it will not be a cure for Ebola. The vaccine is currently being tested in clinical trials.

http://ebola.emedtv.com/ebola/is-there-a-cure-for-ebola.html


Me
The great danger of the spread of Ebola is not in the population that fears it's effects and therefore seeks treatment at the early signs of illness ,rather among those who either scoff at the threat , don't know it exists,or never access healthcare at all and live in conditions conducive to it's spread,overcrowding,poor sanitation etc.

I presently am on a daily regimen of anti virals of three varieties ,have also been on intravenous gancyclovir for Citomeglovirus (CMV) ,I have been schooled repeatedly in how to avoid viral contamination because I am a bone marrow transplant recipient and from all I've been told by numerous Drs. the most common way those things get passed on is because people don't "eat " they merely go to their nose and brush it or their lips after having contact with other s who have done the same ,it's one of the reasons school kids are being taught to cough into their elbows,it's why as a wrestling coach we quit shaking competitors hands.
I understand you want to impeach the article for whatever reason ,I think the pursuit of profit was your rational, however the sources for the article were valid and credentialed people ,to discount their testimony based upon who published their pronouncements is not valid argumentation,in fact it is intellectual dishonesty a trick not uncommon to ideologically driven debate. You didn't use those terms so I responded .

 

[bluecoconuts]

I don't discount everything they say, nor do I say that we just shouldn't do anything at all. I discount the notion that the virus is airborne, because it is not, and I pointed that out in the above article mostly because of this statement:

Nass slammed the contradiction.

“The CDC said it doesn’t spread at all by air, then Friday they came out with this poster,” she said. “They admit that these particles or droplets may land on objects such as doorknobs and that Ebola can be transmitted that way.”

There is no contradiction there on part of the CDC, and to the uninformed reader it reads like "The CDC says it doesn't spread at all by air, but now they're saying that it does", which implies that the virus is airborne. It also says that "Ebola is a lot easier to catch than health officials have admitted" which isn't really true either, as healthcare officials have always said it can be transmitted via fluids, which obviously spit counts as fluids. So yes, if you can avoid ingesting fluids from those who are injected you're going to be okay, which doesn't mean people are going around licking and drinking bodily fluids, there are other ways to ingest something, but if you look at those in western nations (who generally practice much better personal hygiene than those in Africa) the ones who have gotten ill have failed to follow proper procedure, which has led to them getting infected. Dumbing down my statement doesn't make yours smarter or correct, the point will remain that the virus is not easily transmitted, and thus the risk of an epidemic among developed nations is very low. There's not a real danger of an Ebola outbreak in the United States, and baring any major changes and what would likely need to be a total breakdown of most of our institutions and society, there wont be any danger anytime soon. Lets look at Ebola in the United States this year.

First, an Liberian man, Thomas comes to the US from Liberia and is diagnosed with Ebola. He tells doctors he's a local and hasn't been in contact with anyone who is sick, despite the fact he had been in Liberia less than a week before, and had been in direct contact with someone who ended up dying from Ebola (which he lied about before leaving Liberia) tells them he hasn't been around any sick people. He flew from Liberia to Belgium to Washington to Dallas. As far as we know, nobody aboard those flights have contacted the disease. Thomas dies later on.

NBC cameraman who catches Ebola in Liberia checks into a Nebraska hospital, and 3 weeks later is cleared of the virus.

Two nurses that treated Thomas, Nina and Amber contact Ebola from Thomas, likely because as nurses they are constantly dealing with his fluids, and as anyone who's worked in the medical field will tell you, things happen and things get in your mouth. In Amber's case, she actually flew from Dallas to Cleveland and back. Flight crews were given 21 days paid off, but as far as we know nobody on those flights have contacted Ebola either Both Nina and Amber have been declared free of Ebola. These are the only two people who have caught Ebola on American soil.

A doctor, Craig Spencer, travels from Guinea to New York, and all over the subway, before getting symptoms of Ebola and checks himself into the hospital where it is confirmed. So far, a week later nobody else in New York has confirmed to have the virus, and he is still in the hospital in stable condition.

Another 5 Americans who caught Ebola while working overseas to help control the virus have flown back to the United States to be treated. So far of the 9 Ebola cases in the United States, one (Thomas) has died, one (Craig) is in stable condition, and 7 no longer have Ebola. 8 of the 9 have been on multiple flights and have gotten nobody infected on those flights.

I'd say that we're quite safe from an outbreak.

And again, being cured does not mean there is a cure for it. However the reason why those in western nations are being cured is because of the access to better treatments and healthcare to help them fight the virus. Once someone no longer has the virus in them they are cured of the virus.

My "authority" by the way comes from experts, science, statistics, facts, and a little bit of common sense. Combined bring the conclusion that we're not on the verge of any huge outbreak, and to state otherwise is unnecessary and in the case of much of the media, irresponsible.

 

[Thordaddy]

All well and good , doesn't mean those who don't recognize and don't seek treatment won't become infected, nor that the people who publish the type of article you attack have no validity ,they are as credible as any unnamed "experts " source you profess and I would be remiss if I didn't point out that "common sense " dictates caution .
No one wants an apocalypse and FWIW it may be that as the "fictional book" posited the virus has become less virulent in this generation,I doubt anyone knows that either.
I would like you to address your "eat it" point , then are we to assume the Hazmat suits are just unnecessary