Early OTA Starter Observations

[den-the-coach]

Competition is great all the way around concur with @jrry32 McDonald is one of the top defensive players on the Rams and it seems it will either be Alexander or Cody Davis joining him come the eve of September.

As to Battle, it's good giving him some reps, but Havenstein was outstanding last year now again the Rams did not pass much, but the mountain from Wisconsin did not allow a quarterback sack in his rookie season and I expect Havenstein to be even stronger this year, but as many Ram fans found out last season, you can never have too much depth along the offensive line.

 

[tomas]

Battle vs Havenstein may be one of the more interesting camp battles this summer. My guess is that everyone was pretty pleased with Havenstein's work at RT but he's certainly not a world-beater and wasn't one of those standout rookies who earned a pro-bowl berth. What if Battle, with a year of seasoning, is that kinda guy?

Rob Havenstein quietly pieced together a strong rookie campaign. He was missed by Todd Gurley dearly in Weeks 11-12.

 

[tomas]

I have been watching OTA videos to get a sense of who is playing where and there are some interesting developments. Obviously a lot can change from now to Monday Night football against the 49ers, but it is interesting to see who the coaches expect to step up at this junction of the offseason

1. Isaiah Battle Starting at RT
Isaiah Battle running with the first unit at RT. Kinda of surprising since that is Havenstein's spot and he was arguably our best lineman last year (maybe Hav is hurt/recovering?). Maybe Hav and Battle will compete for that spot and leave us with a pretty good swing tackle in case of injury. From what i have seen the first team o-line from left to right is Robinson, Saffold, Barnes, Brown, Battle. That's a really high upside unit with quality depth if they can stay healthy.

2. Cody Davis and Mo Alexander the starting Safety duo.
This could easily be our starting safety duo heading into the season. Both guys have excelled as core special teamers, are above average athletes at their position, and Fisher favorites. There is plenty of competition and interesting prospects behind them like Christian Bryant and Brian Randolph, but Cody and Mo are more experienced and have grown up in this system. TJ vs. Mo at SS is going to be a bigger battle than most people think. They are practically the same size and they play the same fast physical brand of football, however TJ is coming off injury, legal issues, always seems to injure teammates, and has had only one healthy season. Its not like the looser wont play either, the Rams will need someone to play in the big nickel which they use often now that Barron is full-time LB.

3. Coty Sensabaugh and Marcus Roberson splitting reps opposite Tru
Rams are being cautious with EJ Gaines the presumptive starter opposite Tru, so Roberson and Coty are trying to make the most of the opportunities presented to them. IMO this is the most interesting camp battle. All three guys have varying levels of starting experience and Fisher has shown he will play the best guy at CB. I think all 3 are even heading into camp it will be interesting to see who emerges as the starter.

4. Quick Starting Opposite Tavon
I believe Kenny Britt is hurt or recovering from an injury so Quick has been taking the reps with the ones while he is out. This isn't all that surprising considering the inexperience of the players behind Quick. In an ideal world Groh gets the most out of Quick and he makes this spot his own because we could really use a consistent big WR opposite Tavon.

Do You Really Believe What You Say You Believe?
(Isaiah Battle Starting at RT)

 

[PARAM]

I'll be really disappointed if Quick makes the team. We've got some exciting young guys in camp that are all fighting for that last spot or two. After 4 disappointing seasons it would be a shame to let Quick get another shot IMO

Even if he performs better than those exciting young guys? I wouldn't point to any player and say "I'll be disappointed if he earns a spot". I only hope everybody who makes the 53 are the best 53 in reality

 

[BonifayRam]

#1- Isaiah Battle @ starting ORT:
Of the main 11 Ram OL'ers that the Ram Org. have invested moderate to heavy in.....Battle is a big unknown. IB needs to get all the action he can to be able to make this team. IB is light years behind the other 10 Ram OL'ers. Paul Boudreau is very aware that he has Robinson, Saffold & Williams available to play left OT in the NFL. PB also knows that both reserve OT Darrell Williams & Saffold are capable swing OT's too. PB has Rob Havenstein (was the best rookie RT in the NFL last season winning close to a half dozen such awards) seriously cemented in as the starting ORT.

Said all of that to set up this bona fide roster spot fight between the two 2nd season OT's & 4th & 5th round draft selections Battle & Donnal. Neither will start thus both will enter the 2016 season as reserves. The younger IB has been a ONE position OL'er. The more mature & versatile college OL'er Andrew Donnal turned in a unsuccessful rookie season much like IB did AD proved to be a very poor OLG & ORG & continued to build on his often injured resume, both will cost him a roster spot if AD can not demonstrate that he can play something besides one RT post. The same argument can be made about IB. IB must prove he can swing!

#2-The starting OTA safeties:
Appear to be a smart decision to start your most experienced reserves at their same reserve positions both have worked on the last two seasons. Rams came into OTA's without last regular season talented starters (TJ & Rodney). With the deep safety post vacated now keeping Mo who finished a many of games @ SS key. I have been an advocate of Mo starting in the usual safety spot closer to the LOS. With the very talented 3 yr Ram starter TJ filling the vacated safety post. TJ is most likely our best SS at this point when healthy but TJ has proven to be injury prone (2 seasons on the IR). Mo is our future & TJ has talent to burn even if he is moved back from all those hits.

 

[StealYoGurley]

Competition is great all the way around concur with @jrry32 McDonald is one of the top defensive players on the Rams and it seems it will either be Alexander or Cody Davis joining him come the eve of September.

TJ is dynamite against the run probably one of the best run defending safeties in the league. TJ has the requisite athleticism to excel in coverage, but he has always struggled in that regard. Cant be an elite safety if you cant cover. Mo was probably even worse in coverage last year, but if he shows significant improvement in coverage it could make for an interesting camp battle. Remember he didn't play alot of safety in college, so he definitely has some upside in that regard.

Do You Really Believe What You Say You Believe?
(Isaiah Battle Starting at RT)

I'm pretty sure big Hav will start at RT he was our most consistent lineman last year when healthy.

 

[jrry32]

TJ is dynamite against the run probably one of the best run defending safeties in the league. TJ has the requisite athleticism to excel in coverage, but he has always struggled in that regard. Cant be an elite safety if you cant cover. Mo was probably even worse in coverage last year, but if he shows significant improvement in coverage it could make for an interesting camp battle. Remember he didn't play alot of safety in college, so he definitely has some upside in that regard.

This isn't what I've seen. T.J. is quite good in coverage for a SS. His size/speed combo makes him an excellent match-up for athletic TEs in man coverage and I can't think of him getting burnt in deep zone coverage either. He didn't play much of it because of McLeod but when he did, I don't remember hearing his name mentioned. Alexander, on the other hand, looked quite bad in deep zone coverage when he stepped in for T.J. last year. Was out of position or got caught peaking into the back-field multiple times.

T.J. is hands down the better player. The competition right now is whether the Rams shift T.J. to FS and Mo to SS or leave T.J. at SS and put Davis at FS.(barring them signing Whitner)

 

[RamFan503]

TJ has the requisite athleticism to excel in coverage, but he has always struggled in that regard. Cant be an elite safety if you cant cover.

TJ actually played FS quite well at USC before Kiffin changed his position to more of a Barron type hybrid LB/SS position. IIRR TJ actually was USC's starting FS as a Sophomore and Junior and was selected to all Pac-10/12 first teams both seasons. His senior season, he was asked to play in an odd position that had him dropping in coverage more like a linebacker.

 

[dieterbrock]

Even if he performs better than those exciting young guys? I wouldn't point to any player and say "I'll be disappointed if he earns a spot". I only hope everybody who makes the 53 are the best 53 in reality

Define "performs better"

 

[StealYoGurley]

This isn't what I've seen. T.J. is quite good in coverage for a SS. His size/speed combo makes him an excellent match-up for athletic TEs in man coverage and I can't think of him getting burnt in deep zone coverage either. He didn't play much of it because of McLeod but when he did, I don't remember hearing his name mentioned. Alexander, on the other hand, looked quite bad in deep zone coverage when he stepped in for T.J. last year. Was out of position or got caught peaking into the back-field multiple times.

I agree with you TJ is the better player right now. He is more experienced than Mo, so he is better at recognizing routes, an area where Mo struggled when asked to play last year. I'm just saying as Mo gets more experienced their skill sets are very similar and he can play well in that same type of role where he is almost exclusively in the box. The experience gap is significant Alexander played safety for 1 year at Utah State whereas TJ was 3 year starter at USC, with a father who played safety in the NFL. Furthermore, TJ has his own issues in coverage, so much so that I believe he was benched during a game last year.

On paper TJ is a great matchup against TEs because he is big, fast, and physical, but IMO TJ is a little stiff in coverage especially when asked to play man to man. I would almost prefer him playing FS single high zone over the top where he can use his great range as opposed to being a SS matched up man to man in the box with a TE or a slot WR. In the play below he had Jimmy Grahm man to man and he gets beat on a simple out route. When Tree was healthy he was the preferred man to man matchup against TEs. I don't know how much Mo has improved, but if he has improved significantly, which is a certainly a possibility, TJ isn't a lock to start at SS.

 

[Ram65]

Havenstein must be hurt or something.

It's nice to see "these other players getting reps'. Rams staff has to see if they are learning and what they can do. Nice to see Quick getting a good start early. It's a long way till opening game.

 

[jrry32]

I agree with you TJ is the better player right now. He is more experienced than Mo, so he is better at recognizing routes, an area where Mo struggled when asked to play last year. I'm just saying as Mo gets more experienced their skill sets are very similar and he can play well in that same type of role where he is almost exclusively in the box. The experience gap is significant Alexander played safety for 1 year at Utah State whereas TJ was 3 year starter at USC, with a father who played safety in the NFL. Furthermore, TJ has his own issues in coverage, so much so that I believe he was benched during a game last year.

On paper TJ is a great matchup against TEs because he is big, fast, and physical, but IMO TJ is a little stiff in coverage especially when asked to play man to man. I would almost prefer him playing FS single high zone over the top where he can use his great range as opposed to being a SS matched up man to man in the box with a TE or a slot WR. In the play below he had Jimmy Grahm man to man and he gets beat on a simple out route. When Tree was healthy he was the preferred man to man matchup against TEs. I don't know how much Mo has improved, but if he has improved significantly, which is a certainly a possibility, TJ isn't a lock to start at SS.

He got beat because he was put in a very difficult situation. We brought the house. That meant he had no help in the middle. He played the inside route. Graham broke outside and Wilson made a perfectly timed throw. Not much he could do. We bet on the pass rush sacking Wilson or disrupting the throw. It didn't happen.

Yes, he's stiff (most guys his size are) but that's not an issue against TEs. There are very few TEs in the NFL who aren't similarly stiff.

There's no reason to match McDonald up on a slot WR in man to man coverage. Only reason that happens is if you're disguising a blitz and trying to bait a QB. In that case, it's not such an issue.

TJ is a lock to start.

 

[bomebadeeda]

I thought TJ wasn't participating this week because of his DUI?

 

[So Ram]

Rob Havenstein played excellent last year. Go look at film. He is 6'7 w/ long arms.He uses his leverage well.Even when he gets beat he still extends enough to keep the defender from getting to QB. He has still not given up a sack in The NFL.
Rob H was a mid 2nd rd draft pick.He is an excellent run blocker & plays smart.Look at who he has blocked for, & there success .
--Battle looks huge & good.I think he has a bunch of upside.That makes for great depth.
Who is backing up Robinson at LT ?
Darrell Williams. I actually think he is ahead of Battle on the food chain.He is still only 22 years old as well.
---The Rams site actually has a depth chart up.Battle is 2nd at RT,3rd at LT behind Williams.
--Andrew Donnal is 3rd string at RT RG.
--Cody Wichmann is 2nd string RG & 3rd LG.
Garret Reynolds is behind Roger Saffold at LG.Which is a great strength w/depth .
--Jamon Brown at RG !!! Love the upside of he & Rob Hav next to each other.They are tight from last season.Was upset they moved Saffold & Brown just before the season.

 

[Mikey Ram]

My opinion on the day off thing is that short of the personal stuff or an injury tweak, nobody (vets included) needs a day off in a 3-day OTA...At least not just to get a rest day...

 

[BonifayRam]

Rob Havenstein played excellent last year. Go look at film. He is 6'7 w/ long arms.He uses his leverage well.Even when he gets beat he still extends enough to keep the defender from getting to QB. He has still not given up a sack in The NFL.
Rob H was a mid 2nd rd draft pick.He is an excellent run blocker & plays smart.Look at who he has blocked for, & there success .
--Battle looks huge & good.I think he has a bunch of upside.That makes for great depth.
Who is backing up Robinson at LT ?
Darrell Williams. I actually think he is ahead of Battle on the food chain.He is still only 22 years old as well.
---The Rams site actually has a depth chart up.Battle is 2nd at RT,3rd at LT behind Williams.
--Andrew Donnal is 3rd string at RT RG.
--Cody Wichmann is 2nd string RG & 3rd LG.
Garret Reynolds is behind Roger Saffold at LG.Which is a great strength w/depth .
--Jamon Brown at RG !!! Love the upside of he & Rob Hav next to each other.They are tight from last season.Was upset they moved Saffold & Brown just before the season.

*On your question on who is backing up Robinson in 2016 ? The real bona fide main back up to OLT ? Since 2013 Boudreau its .....if he is not on the injury list (usually) is Rodger Saffold. On paper though it will be Darrell Williams.

*Boudreau has Jamon Brown back starting @ Right OG....not a good thing for Brown or the Rams. JB plays much better @ Left OG. But as long as Saffold & Reynolds are here & healthy to play next to Robinson..... JB will not play @ Left OG. I would like to add, after this season, when Reynolds departs for free agency & Saffold is released for cap reasons, JB will be back to start in his best playing position Left OG.

*IMO Garrett Reynolds is a much better game day performing Left OG than Rodger Saffold is. GR teams great with OLT Robinson. GR proved to be the veteran leader in our OL last season. I see no good reason for Boudreau to remove your leading veteran OL from the starting line up in an exchange for the most injured OL in Ram team history (Saffold). One could say to justify Saffold is getting paid 6 mil in 2016 & Garrett is only paid 2 mil. I would make the left side stronger & start GR @ Left OG when the season begins.

*IMO Cody Wichmann far outplayed Jamon Brown @ Right OG. CW's play improved week by week whereas JB's play diminished week by week @ RG. I would go into the regular season with Brown as the swing OG (1st relief for both OG posts) & make CW the starter @ ORG. JB is a better swing OG than CW.

The way I see it & if I am reading Paul Boudreau right???? the 2016 OL future TC set up would appear to be:

OLT-Robinson/Williams
OLG-Saffold/Reynolds
OC-Barnes/? {Rhaney or Kush}
ORG-Brown/Wichmann
ORT-Havenstein/ ?{Donnal or Battle}

 

[So Ram]

*On your question on who is backing up Robinson in 2016 ? The real bona fide main back up to OLT ? Since 2013 Boudreau its .....if he is not on the injury list (usually) is Rodger Saffold. On paper though it will be Darrell Williams.

*Boudreau has Jamon Brown back starting @ Right OG....not a good thing for Brown or the Rams. JB plays much better @ Left OG. But as long as Saffold & Reynolds are here & healthy to play next to Robinson..... JB will not play @ Left OG. I would like to add, after this season, when Reynolds departs for free agency & Saffold is released for cap reasons, JB will be back to start in his best playing position Left OG.

*IMO Garrett Reynolds is a much better game day performing Left OG than Rodger Saffold is. GR teams great with OLT Robinson. GR proved to be the veteran leader in our OL last season. I see no good reason for Boudreau to remove your leading veteran OL from the starting line up in an exchange for the most injured OL in Ram team history (Saffold). One could say to justify Saffold is getting paid 6 mil in 2016 & Garrett is only paid 2 mil. I would make the left side stronger & start GR @ Left OG when the season begins.

*IMO Cody Wichmann far outplayed Jamon Brown @ Right OG. CW's play improved week by week whereas JB's play diminished week by week @ RG. I would go into the regular season with Brown as the swing OG (1st relief for both OG posts) & make CW the starter @ ORG. JB is a better swing OG than CW.

The way I see it & if I am reading Paul Boudreau right???? the 2016 OL future TC set up would appear to be:

OLT-Robinson/Williams
OLG-Saffold/Reynolds
OC-Barnes/? {Rhaney or Kush}
ORG-Brown/Wichmann
ORT-Havenstein/ ?{Donnal or Battle}

I don't understand your red question marks.

You make a lot of good points.I think Saffold is going to have a breakout season. I also am not 100% sure how the rotation went last season.
I do believe J. Brown & R. Saffold were changed & then after Saffold got injured J. Brown was out back to RG.
-- Wichmann was playing very well at the end of the season along with G.Rey at LG next to G.Rob.
---------------
Will see how things play out . I think you hav some of your thoughts wrong.Could happen,but I see it different.

 

[hotanez]

I don't understand your red question marks.

You make a lot of good points.I think Saffold is going to have a breakout season. I also am not 100% sure how the rotation went last season.
I do believe J. Brown & R. Saffold were changed & then after Saffold got injured J. Brown was out back to RG.
-- Wichmann was playing very well at the end of the season along with G.Rey at LG next to G.Rob.
---------------
Will see how things play out . I think you hav some of your thoughts wrong.Could happen,but I see it different.

I'm guessing the ? are because he's not sure yet who those backups will be. I really hope your right about Saffold because that would be a huge boost.

 

[BonifayRam]

I'm guessing the ? are because he's not sure yet who those backups will be.

Your still getting it right hotanez!

I don't understand your red question marks. You make a lot of good points.I think Saffold is going to have a breakout season. I also am not 100% sure how the rotation went last season.
I do believe J. Brown & R. Saffold were changed & then after Saffold got injured J. Brown was out back to RG.-- Wichmann was playing very well at the end of the season along with G.Rey at LG next to G.Rob.
---------------
Will see how things play out . I think you hav some of your thoughts wrong.Could happen,but I see it different.

Is it safe to use Saffold's name next to your word break?

On your unsureness on what happen at both OG post's reference Saffold & Brown? I would not use the word rotation but I should be very close here on what happened. Saffold was the starting right OG in TC & pre season as usual Saffold was hurt very early missed most of pre season & then started @ ORG for the opening of the regular season. Rookie Jamon Brown was a OLT in college & initially penciled in at right guard, won the left OG post somewhat early & but continued to swing a lot in TC & pre season when Saffold was doing what he usually does" be injured".

When regular season began Brown was the starter @ left OG. Meanwhile OLT post where GRob resides is having major malfunctions brain cloud like issues. Boudreau decides to make his first change to the 2015 OL starting line up. Game five Saffold is flipped to OLG so he can help GRob smooth things out some. Saffold breaks his shoulder completely. Jamon Brown who had started 4 games on the left, goes on to start five games on the right side till he breaks his leg. Browns performance @ OLG was better than his performance @ ORG.

Thanks to the career long on going Saffold injury saga, from that moment when Saffold has his problem the OLG in game 5, the OLG post goes through many different Ram OL operators until Garrett Reynolds finally moves in & secures the OLG post to make that post fully effective working with GRob. first season OL'ers Andrew Donnal, Demetrius Rhaney & Cody Wichmann all had spent some time one time or another playing @ OLG. When starter Havenstein was able to start & play inured @ his ORT post, Reynolds flipped back into OLG and never missed a play from that point. I fully agree with what you said in this last post with the exception of the Saffold thoughts. Its proven for the last five years its soundly unwise to plan to have Rodger Saffold as a starter in your regular season OL.


Can you take the time & get specific on what thoughts you think I have wrong? I am interested as to where we differ here on the Rams OL thoughts.

 

[So Ram]

Your still getting it right hotanez!

Is it safe to use Saffold's name next to your word break?

On your unsureness on what happen at both OG post's reference Saffold & Brown? I would not use the word rotation but I should be very close here on what happened. Saffold was the starting right OG in TC & pre season as usual Saffold was hurt very early missed most of pre season & then started @ ORG for the opening of the regular season. Rookie Jamon Brown was a OLT in college & initially penciled in at right guard, won the left OG post somewhat early & but continued to swing a lot in TC & pre season when Saffold was doing what he usually does" be injured".

When regular season began Brown was the starter @ left OG. Meanwhile OLT post where GRob resides is having major malfunctions brain cloud like issues. Boudreau decides to make his first change to the 2015 OL starting line up. Game five Saffold is flipped to OLG so he can help GRob smooth things out some. Saffold breaks his shoulder completely. Jamon Brown who had started 4 games on the left, goes on to start five games on the right side till he breaks his leg. Browns performance @ OLG was better than his performance @ ORG.

Thanks to the career long on going Saffold injury saga, from that moment when Saffold has his problem the OLG in game 5, the OLG post goes through many different Ram OL operators until Garrett Reynolds finally moves in & secures the OLG post to make that post fully effective working with GRob. first season OL'ers Andrew Donnal, Demetrius Rhaney & Cody Wichmann all had spent some time one time or another playing @ OLG. When starter Havenstein was able to start & play inured @ his ORT post, Reynolds flipped back into OLG and never missed a play from that point. I fully agree with what you said in this last post with the exception of the Saffold thoughts. Its proven for the last five years its soundly unwise to plan to have Rodger Saffold as a starter in your regular season OL.


Can you take the time & get specific on what thoughts you think I have wrong? I am interested as to where we differ here on the Rams OL thoughts.

Great reply first off. Thank you for that.Pretty awesome on how you recalled that.

--After that is would seem hard to question you.

I think your wrong about Roger Saffold in all accounts except that he gets injured a lot. I believe he will stay belt by all season.-- Be says he will more than earn his contract.I think he is taking on a team leadership.

I did not like the changes that were made.I thought Saffold should have stayed at LG & then when they finally did he gets hurt. Shook my head on both those moves.
I don't think Roger Saffold would play LT if there was an injury to G. Rob,which I hope we don't find that out.

I know J.Brown played on the Left side at Louv.,but I think Rob H. & Brown have a good understanding & feel for each other. I also think Tob Hav had a bad ankle when he moved back to RG.
Agree Wichmann played real well at RG.GR played RG against G.B. Pack & was horrible. He did settle nice at LG.