Do you trust Fisher/Snead to draft our QB of the future?

[drasconis]

Why doesn't Snead receive any blame for not fixing this offense? When Fisher and Snead took over the line sucked and the receivers sucked. Tavon Austin is a nice playmaker, but he isn't a great receiver. We have no good receivers. We passed on some great ones in 2014. As far as offensive line we really didn't invest until 2014. I don't call day 3 picks really investing due to high bust rate. We tried getting older patchwork guys with our offensive line. I wish they would have approached the offensive line like they did the defensive line. To me Snead is as much to blame as Fisher. He is the GM.

I don't think anyone is saying Snead is blameless (as GM talent is his job), but it is well known JF has major if not final say (see that article talking about JF reaction to Blackmon getting nabbed), which removes some of the focus from Snead. Secondly in many cases we can look at JF track record and say how many WR has he ever developed (or his staff), not many - I think many of us wonder if it is the talent or the use/training of the talent.

Your question is quite fair though...

JF coaching staff seems to be well behind on the O side of the ball, compared to the D side...which seems to develop/train/coach the players up. For example look at Barron, a misused talent elsewhere, has done well here (not superstar but solid). Can we look at anyone on the offensive side of the ball that a JF team has done the same with in recent years, heck go back to his time in TEN....

 

[blue4]

Meh. Still hindsight. You can't KNOW whether or not a player will be able to adapt to the NFL until you put him in the NFL. Quick had/has exceptional athleticism and a prototypical WR build. How could they not have been excited by the prospects of putting him on the field? And that second article reinforces what I believed to be the case (at the time) when Fisher "slammed his glasses on the table" after Jax moved up to take Blackmon. He was upset because the trade value for Blackmon was huge, and the trade value for everyone else below him (including Claiborne) was lower. They just wanted the most value at their slot. They didn't care that they couldn't draft him.

I can't blame them for taking as many players as they could (whether 'NFL-ready' or 'potential') after the purge of the 2011 team. People can claim that they knew what was the right decision at the time, but they didn't. They can claim that they knew so-and-so would be a great NFL talent, but they didn't. Blackmon didn't pan out. Claiborne isn't a world beater. Who knows what would have happened if Quick didn't get injured. What if they did take Wagner and he got badly hurt HERE? Whether people like it or not, they put a premium on athletic ability and roll the dice on whether or not they'll be able to "get it" instead of putting a premium on being NFL ready and rolling the dice on whether or not they'll turn out to be playmakers.

Can't change that unless you get a whole new staff.

Brian Quick is not hindsight. There wasn't a single soul chattering about Quick before he was drafted. We drafted him, people asked "who's that why are we doing that with a high second rounder instead of a 4th?". Then after came the post draft/TC optimism when he was already on the team. After Snead pretty much called him the next TO. The term hindsight might be fair in some cases, but definitely not Brian Quick.

 

[FRO]

Meh. Still hindsight. You can't KNOW whether or not a player will be able to adapt to the NFL until you put him in the NFL. Quick had/has exceptional athleticism and a prototypical WR build. How could they not have been excited by the prospects of putting him on the field? And that second article reinforces what I believed to be the case (at the time) when Fisher "slammed his glasses on the table" after Jax moved up to take Blackmon. He was upset because the trade value for Blackmon was huge, and the trade value for everyone else below him (including Claiborne) was lower. They just wanted the most value at their slot. They didn't care that they couldn't draft him.

I can't blame them for taking as many players as they could (whether 'NFL-ready' or 'potential') after the purge of the 2011 team. People can claim that they knew what was the right decision at the time, but they didn't. They can claim that they knew so-and-so would be a great NFL talent, but they didn't. Blackmon didn't pan out. Claiborne isn't a world beater. Who knows what would have happened if Quick didn't get injured. What if they did take Wagner and he got badly hurt HERE? Whether people like it or not, they put a premium on athletic ability and roll the dice on whether or not they'll be able to "get it" instead of putting a premium on being NFL ready and rolling the dice on whether or not they'll turn out to be playmakers.

Can't change that unless you get a whole new staff.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. It's a total crapshoot. Busts happen to even the best GMs and you can't hit every one. I don't know if they are better at spotting defensive players or they are better at coaching them, but they haven't missed on one of their defensive picks. Not one. Maybe with the way college offenses are played today it's harder to spot offensive prospects. Here is one huge flaw in their process, drafting super raw talent early. It has bit them in the butt with Quick and it's biting them in the butt with Robinson. Both played in college offenses without playbooks. Go from that to a super complex NFL offense and it's easy to see why you haven't seen results from either. Its a bottom line business and the only above average players on offense are Gurley and Austin. The problem with Austin is he isn't a good receiver. He is great with the ball in his hands, but must of his plays come of handoffs or short passes.

 

[FRO]

I don't think anyone is saying Snead is blameless (as GM talent is his job), but it is well known JF has major if not final say (see that article talking about JF reaction to Blackmon getting nabbed), which removes some of the focus from Snead. Secondly in many cases we can look at JF track record and say how many WR has he ever developed (or his staff), not many - I think many of us wonder if it is the talent or the use/training of the talent.

Your question is quite fair though...

JF coaching staff seems to be well behind on the O side of the ball, compared to the D side...which seems to develop/train/coach the players up. For example look at Barron, a misused talent elsewhere, has done well here (not superstar but solid). Can we look at anyone on the offensive side of the ball that a JF team has done the same with in recent years, heck go back to his time in TEN....

Yeah they have been outstanding with drafting defensive players. They have even been good at finding street free agents to play well on defense. Offense it's been pretty bad.

 

[FRO]

Brian Quick is not hindsight. There wasn't a single soul chattering about Quick before he was drafted. We drafted him, people asked "who's that why are we doing that with a high second rounder instead of a 4th?". Then after came the post draft/TC optimism when he was already on the team. After Snead pretty much called him the next TO. The term hindsight might be fair in some cases, but definitely not Brian Quick.

I absolutely hated the Quick pick. I hated the Pead pick too. I voiced my opinions on draft day and people killed me. But to be fair the two guys I wanted instead where Colby Fleener and Rueben Randle. Had @jrry32 been the GM in the second round we would have had Cordy Gleen, Janoris Jenkins, and Alshon Jeffrey. He was also a TY Hilton guy too. He nailed the 2012 draft.

 

[-X-]

Brian Quick is not hindsight. There wasn't a single soul chattering about Quick before he was drafted. We drafted him, people asked "who's that why are we doing that with a high second rounder instead of a 4th?". Then after came the post draft/TC optimism when he was already on the team. After Snead pretty much called him the next TO. The term hindsight might be fair in some cases, but definitely not Brian Quick.

Well, in your opinion. I remember during the draft, Brian Quick was on both Mayock's and Kiper's boards after Blackmon was gone. Maybe *we* didn't know a lot about Quick, but the people who are supposed to know about him .. knew about him. I have serious doubts about him lasting until the 4th, but in hindsight, he *may* have lasted until their second 2nd round pick. That's not the point though. When a team has a guy high on their board, they take him as soon as possible. Before other teams have a chance to do so, and nobody knows whether or not another team would have taken Quick later in the draft and before the Rams could have. Nobody.

 

[FRO]

Well, in your opinion. I remember during the draft, Brian Quick was on both Mayock's and Kiper's boards after Blackmon was gone. Maybe *we* didn't know a lot about Quick, but the people who are supposed to know about him .. knew about him. I have serious doubts about him lasting until the 4th, but in hindsight, he *may* have lasted until their second 2nd round pick. That's not the point though. When a team has a guy high on their board, they take him as soon as possible. Before other teams have a chance to do so, and nobody knows whether or not another team would have taken Quick later in the draft and before the Rams could have. Nobody.

Not that this will ease the pain, but I remember the Browns being interested in him for their second round pick. Now being on the same wavelength as the Browns is no consultation prize considering they drafted Trent Richardson and Brandon Weedon earlier in the draft.

 

[blue4]

Well, in your opinion. I remember during the draft, Brian Quick was on both Mayock's and Kiper's boards after Blackmon was gone. Maybe *we* didn't know a lot about Quick, but the people who are supposed to know about him .. knew about him. I have serious doubts about him lasting until the 4th, but in hindsight, he *may* have lasted until their second 2nd round pick. That's not the point though. When a team has a guy high on their board, they take him as soon as possible. Before other teams have a chance to do so, and nobody knows whether or not another team would have taken Quick later in the draft and before the Rams could have. Nobody.

I'm not referring to the team. We already know they struggle with offensive evaluation. I'm saying that there were many people who questioned that pick from day one. So just saying hindsight in regards to their opinion is unfair.

 

[fancents86]

I'm wondering how we can judge Snisher on drafting our next qb if we haven't even seen what we have in the qb we drafted out of the third round? Is that just a wasted pick to you guys already? Why are we dismissing Mannion already? Bc he wasn't a "first round pick"? That's asinine.

 

[FRO]

I'm wondering how we can judge Snisher on drafting our next qb if we haven't even seen what we have in the qb we drafted out of the third round? Is that just a wasted pick to you guys already? Why are we dismissing Mannion already? Bc he wasn't a "first round pick"? That's asinine.

The amount of third round QB picks that turn into solid starters is very small. For every Russell Wilson there are 100 bums. Mannion didn't impress me in preseason and if he doesn't see the field there rest of the way here you cannot count on him moving forward to be the starter.

 

[dieterbrock]

Well, in your opinion. I remember during the draft, Brian Quick was on both Mayock's and Kiper's boards after Blackmon was gone. Maybe *we* didn't know a lot about Quick, but the people who are supposed to know about him .. knew about him. I have serious doubts about him lasting until the 4th, but in hindsight, he *may* have lasted until their second 2nd round pick. That's not the point though. When a team has a guy high on their board, they take him as soon as possible. Before other teams have a chance to do so, and nobody knows whether or not another team would have taken Quick later in the draft and before the Rams could have. Nobody.

I know I'm painting with a pretty broad brush here, but as I recall when the Quick pick came up, many of us were clamoring for Alshon Jeffrey (thanks @jrry32 ). So the way I see it, the disappointment of not getting "our guy" vs the immediate payoff of Jeffrey vs the waiting on Quick clouds the memory. Quick WAS rated as a 2-3 rounder by many of the draft boards.
I think it also was a deja vu type deal reaching back to the Donnie Avery over Desean Jackson faux pas. Just my .02

 

[fancents86]

The amount of third round QB picks that turn into solid starters is very small. For every Russell Wilson there are 100 bums. Mannion didn't impress me in preseason and if he doesn't see the field there rest of the way here you cannot count on him moving forward to be the starter.

So that means just give up bc of a statistic and bc of preseason play? Again that's pretty absurd to me. I don't remember Brady, Rodgers, Warner, or Wilson being top draft picks.

 

[Mojo Ram]

In 2012 we had Quinn Ojinakka and Rob Turner competing for the LG spot. In 2013 it was Shelley Smith and Chris Williams. Add onto the fact Wells and Dahl were getting long in the tooth and Jason Smith looked like a bust and you could have easily went with offensive line in each of those drafts.

Sure, but the OLine was clearly addressed in FA. Snead could have heavily invested in in the draft, but at the expense of what? Dline? DB's? RB? LB?
You see what i'm saying? The approach was clear.

 

[12intheBox]

Why doesn't Snead receive any blame for not fixing this offense? When Fisher and Snead took over the line sucked and the receivers sucked. Tavon Austin is a nice playmaker, but he isn't a great receiver. We have no good receivers. We passed on some great ones in 2014. As far as offensive line we really didn't invest until 2014. I don't call day 3 picks really investing due to high bust rate. We tried getting older patchwork guys with our offensive line. I wish they would have approached the offensive line like they did the defensive line. To me Snead is as much to blame as Fisher. He is the GM.

Maybe. But I judge the first rounders by whether or not is pick up their 5th year option.

Since Snead came, the only 1st that I wouldn't is G Rob - and it's just too soon to say on him. Yes, he has sucked. But it took Tavon and Quick until their 3rd years to develop - that isn't unusual in the league.

How much is on coaching vs the player selection is tough to judge.

I do blame Snead for Foles - and the extension before seeing live action. I blame him for missing Bobby Wagner just to have a pick in each round. He isn't perfect, but I guess I like more than I don't like. And I wonder if he is being held back by the man who hired him.

I'd like to see what he does when it's his team.

 

[-X-]

I'm not referring to the team. We already know they struggle with offensive evaluation. I'm saying that there were many people who questioned that pick from day one. So just saying hindsight in regards to their opinion is unfair.

Fair enough.

 

[-X-]

Donnie Avery over Desean Jackson faux pas. Just my .02

They should have listened to Tony Softli (who was on staff then). He wanted DeSean but was overruled by Zygmunt.

 

[FRO]

So that means just give up bc of a statistic and bc of preseason play? Again that's pretty absurd to me. I don't remember Brady, Rodgers, Warner, or Wilson being top draft picks.

All I'm saying is you cannot go into 2016 counting on Mannion. He is an unknown and statistics say 3rd round QBs don't amount to starters for the most part. Brady wasn't counted on as a starter until he had proven himself, he was Bledsoe's backup. The Rams added Green when they had Warner on the roster. The Seahawks made a big QB addition in Flynn and he was supposed to be their starter. Aaron Rodgers was a first round pick, stat behind Favre for years. When Favre left they drafted a second round QB to compete with him. We can't hand Mannion the job without him playing. You have to hedge your bets.

 

[FRO]

Sure, but the OLine was clearly addressed in FA. Snead could have heavily invested in in the draft, but at the expense of what? Dline? DB's? RB? LB?
You see what i'm saying? The approach was clear.

I'm not saying go all in at once on the line. Cordy Glenn in the second round in 2012 is an example. Just a second rounder here and a third rounder there. I'm not asking for all first rounders like the defensive line got.

 

[FRO]

Maybe. But I judge the first rounders by whether or not is pick up their 5th year option.

Since Snead came, the only 1st that I wouldn't is G Rob - and it's just too soon to say on him. Yes, he has sucked. But it took Tavon and Quick until their 3rd years to develop - that isn't unusual in the league.

How much is on coaching vs the player selection is tough to judge.

I do blame Snead for Foles - and the extension before seeing live action. I blame him for missing Bobby Wagner just to have a pick in each round. He isn't perfect, but I guess I like more than I don't like. And I wonder if he is being held back by the man who hired him.

I'd like to see what he does when it's his team.

I don't blame Snead for Foles because from what I've read that was all Fisher. I blame Snead for Quick and Pead. I blame him for picking Robinson at 2. You don't draft a lineman at 2 overall in a great draft that played in an offense without a playbook and was rarely in pass protection. Robinson may develop, but you just don't pick projects that early in a loaded draft class. Their philosophy of picking straw guys early in hopes of coaching them up is a flawed one.