Do We Resign Dunbar?

[BonifayRam]

Didn't he play under G.Williams in N.O.?
He could play an important role in transitioning some of the guys into his defensive system.

Yes Dunbar did and he played a lot of MLB'er for GW and did well inside. Minus Spoon & Hull ...JL has no back up. Dunbar does have limitations & playing in Fisher & GW Nickle is not one of them.

Not so sure Alec Ogletree is able to perform & ready to do what JL does if JL was unable to play. Dunbar has some great value for this GW defense. Dunbar besides being able to be the starter @ the base 43 on the outside OL'er post ....would be the important back up to JL. So the value of bring back Dunbar in this GW defense goes up with the addition of GW as DC IMO!

I did notice that Fisher late last yr would insert LB'er Ray Ray Armstrong in with Alec Ogletree for probable various reasons but this would always be when the Fisher went into the NICKLE. So even though it was a small example it would tip us in what Fisher may have planned for more of in 2014. The Nickle Lbers may end up being Alec & Ray Ray so Dunbar's well known issues against the pass may not be a negative for him. That may provide the now 28 yr old JL some in game rest stops.

 

[Memento]

No. Dunbar was simply not the same player that he was last year. I don't know if it was because he was off of PEDs or if he simply slowed down a bit, but he can - and should - be upgraded if our defense is going to thrive. He will cost a fair bit to resign, even if he wants to come back. In my honest opinion, we have three young linebackers that could viably compete for his spot opposite Ogletree at a much cheaper price (Ray Ray Armstrong, Phillip Steward, and Darin Bates). Aside from that, good linebackers are not as hard to find as late round picks and undrafted free agents than other positions are; we found Armstrong, Steward, and Bates as UDFAs last year, and all three of them have a ton of potential. Hell, Dunbar himself came into the league as a UDFA. And as for veteran leadership...don't you guys think that Laurinaitis provides that and more?

 

[BonifayRam]

No. Dunbar was simply not the same player that he was last year. I don't know if it was because he was off of PEDs or if he simply slowed down a bit, but he can - and should - be upgraded if our defense is going to thrive. He will cost a fair bit to resign, even if he wants to come back. In my honest opinion, we have three young linebackers that could viably compete for his spot opposite Ogletree at a much cheaper price (Ray Ray Armstrong, Phillip Steward, and Darin Bates). Aside from that, good linebackers are not as hard to find as late round picks and undrafted free agents than other positions are; we found Armstrong, Steward, and Bates as UDFAs last year, and all three of them have a ton of potential. Hell, Dunbar himself came into the league as a UDFA. And as for veteran leadership...don't you guys think that Laurinaitis provides that and more?

It could be that Dunbar was down due to the fact that he let the Rams team, fans & himself down due to his silly mistake...he is an emotional type player and Dunbar is a real good guy so it may have got into his head more than others might have.

Yes I agree with you on the potential of the BONEHEADS! I have issues trying to understand so many of my fellow ROD'mers desiring using rare priceless draft picks on Lb'ers when we have some good BONEHEADS in the stew getting tenderized to some additional playing time. I believe our new DC will design a defense with getting these BONEHEADS on the field as much as possible rest assured they will get a ton of action out of the BONEHEADS from day one.

Ray Ray was soft last season after his layoff from football arround 235 pounds but I would predict that when we see him up close in pre season we will be shocked at what we will see on that 6-3 large winged frame! Ray Ray is the same size as Kam Chancellor 6-3 232 who is the all pro safety for the Seahawks. If Ray does hit the weights & conditioning sets he could be a somewhat lighter 225 pounder stronger & faster version of himself & get some action @ safety. Just saying I would not be surprised.

I never underestimate the value of outstanding good on field leadership! JL fulfills that & I do think we need him again in 2014!

 

[Ramifications]

No. Dunbar was simply not the same player that he was last year. I don't know if it was because he was off of PEDs or if he simply slowed down a bit, but he can - and should - be upgraded if our defense is going to thrive. He will cost a fair bit to resign, even if he wants to come back. In my honest opinion, we have three young linebackers that could viably compete for his spot opposite Ogletree at a much cheaper price (Ray Ray Armstrong, Phillip Steward, and Darin Bates). Aside from that, good linebackers are not as hard to find as late round picks and undrafted free agents than other positions are; we found Armstrong, Steward, and Bates as UDFAs last year, and all three of them have a ton of potential. Hell, Dunbar himself came into the league as a UDFA. And as for veteran leadership...don't you guys think that Laurinaitis provides that and more?

Curious, if you think he didn't play as well, that wouldn't seem to suggest he will be in line to make more money. Not sure I agree with the first premise (others have pointed out that his return coincided with a big boost in the performance of the defense, though perhaps that could be attributed to other factors), just wondering how you reconcile the second premise with the first?

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

I'm going to have to go against the grain here and state let him go and draft a replacement at #13, I don't buy into the "he'd only be on the field 40%" thing, LB or CB would be my first two picks on D (providing Clowney is not there for the picking, which IMO presents a no-brainer, in that case my top 2 defaults to Clowney then LB @ 13)

 

[MFaulk107]

I'd see no reason to rid of him.
Dunbar issolid and I can only see him going from average to better, no worst.

 

[Memento]

Curious, if you think he didn't play as well, that wouldn't seem to suggest he will be in line to make more money. Not sure I agree with the first premise (others have pointed out that his return coincided with a big boost in the performance of the defense, though perhaps that could be attributed to other factors), just wondering how you reconcile the second premise with the first?

Other factors, like Langford and Brockers playing better? Like Ogletree steadily becoming a better player? Like Fisher taking over the defensive playcalls? I won't deny that Dunbar was an upgrade over Witherspoon, but there were a lot of factors that helped out our defense - and even then, there wasn't that much of an improvement. Our pass defense needs work; I think that getting someone like Jairus Byrd in free agency would be a boon for our defensive backfield. Our run defense was still horribly inconsistent.

And no, Dunbar was not the same player that he was after his suspension...but that doesn't mean that he'll be asking for the veteran minimum. As a player, while he isn't terrible, he is replaceable, and we should be looking for a younger, faster, cheaper upgrade at his position. And since we have three young, fast, and cheap linebackers with potential - as well as whomever we get as UDFAs - why not let them compete for a starting spot?

 

[Ramifications]

I'm going to have to go against the grain here and state let him go and draft a replacement at #13, I don't buy into the "he'd only be on the field 40%" thing, LB or CB would be my first two picks on D (providing Clowney is not there for the picking, which IMO presents a no-brainer, in that case my top 2 defaults to Clowney then LB @ 13)

You don't think a 1.13 LB will be a part time player, or are OK with him being a part time player?

One take I heard from somebody who conceded that a LB might be a two down, part time player, was that it could be worth it if it helps the team get to third and 6 instead of third and 2. That is possible, but another possibility is that opposing offenses convert on first and second down more often (even worse than the third and 2 scenario), because of lack of upgrades we could have used that pick on for CB or safety?

 

[Ramifications]

Other factors, like Langford and Brockers playing better? Like Ogletree steadily becoming a better player? Like Fisher taking over the defensive playcalls? I won't deny that Dunbar was an upgrade over Witherspoon, but there were a lot of factors that helped out our defense - and even then, there wasn't that much of an improvement. Our pass defense needs work; I think that getting someone like Jairus Byrd in free agency would be a boon for our defensive backfield. Our run defense was still horribly inconsistent.

And no, Dunbar was not the same player that he was after his suspension...but that doesn't mean that he'll be asking for the veteran minimum. As a player, while he isn't terrible, he is replaceable, and we should be looking for a younger, faster, cheaper upgrade at his position. And since we have three young, fast, and cheap linebackers with potential - as well as whomever we get as UDFAs - why not let them compete for a starting spot?

I alluded to other factors, Ogletree's improvement over the course of the season was an obvious one, good point about Langford. When did Fisher start taking over the defensive playcalls, I thought that was later in the season, after Dunbar had returned?

Anyways, if he isn't terrible but he isn't good in your book (average, below average?), LBs are fairly fungible/commoditized these days, so I'm not seeing where he will be in line for an appreciable boost in pay... and to the degree your pessimism is warranted, you would seem to be making this case even more strongly. Hypothetically, if he doesn't cost as much as you think, say a slight increase, would you still favor moving on? One reason to suggest not dumping him is the other names are not particularly battle-tested and proven, and at least Dunbar has shown he can be competent (plus the already mentioned position versatility and scheme familiarity with Williams).

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

You don't think a 1.13 LB will be a part time player, or are OK with him being a part time player?

One take I heard from somebody who conceded that a LB might be a two down, part time player, was that it could be worth it if it helps the team get to third and 6 instead of third and 2. That is possible, but another possibility is that opposing offenses convert on first and second down more often (even worse than the third and 2 scenario), because of lack of upgrades we could have used that pick on for CB or safety?

I made no reference to "part time" player, I'll leave that to the "somebody" you were referring to, I guess time will tell.

 

[Mister Sin]

No doubt in my mind, we have to get him back here. Seems to me our D plays better with him. I wouldn't guarantee him a job, I would love to see some competition. Ray Ray needs to see the field more and learn. He has something special. But he can learn a lot from Dunbar.

 

[Ramifications]

I made no reference to "part time" player, I'll leave that to the "somebody" you were referring to, I guess time will tell.

Sorry, you did say don't buy into 40% (wasn't sure if maybe you expected 50%, 60%, etc., which I would still call part time).

This seems to entail either Laurinaitis or Ogletree sitting, or STL playing three LBs in nickel? To me the former seems unlikely on a regular basis, and while I don't know if the latter case would be unprecedented for a 4-3 team, I can't recall any instances (can anybody else?).

 

[BonifayRam]

Sorry, you did say don't buy into 40% (wasn't sure if maye you expected 50%, 60%, etc., which I would still call part time).

This seems to entail either Laurinaitis or Ogletree sitting, or STL playing three LBs in nickel? To me the former seems unlikely on a regular basis, and while I don't know if the latter case would be unprecedented for a 4-3 team, but I can't recall any instances, can anybody else?

No the LB'ers drop out you either add DL'ers or DB's...the normal as we all know is DB's put speed in spaces & speeders on the DL on the probability of a passing situations LB'ers are well LB'ers not as fast as DB's Fisher really prefers DB's & even goes to the dime more than others. he was forced into using safeties in 2013 due to having no CB's results ???? we know the results ! CB's will be drafted & the use of the slower safeties & LB'ers in passing situations more...the thought is that if you draft a good LB'er there would be less need to go to the Nickel but he is still a slower LB'er. Fisher prefers the speed of CB's in his Nickles & dimes. The need for additional drafted LB'ers IMO is just not there as in other units.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Sorry, you did say don't buy into 40% (wasn't sure if maybe you expected 50%, 60%, etc., which I would still call part time).

This seems to entail either Laurinaitis or Ogletree sitting, or STL playing three LBs in nickel? To me the former seems unlikely on a regular basis, and while I don't know if the latter case would be unprecedented for a 4-3 team, I can't recall any instances (can anybody else?).

It's just my opinion that the Rams defense needs another Pro Bowl caliber LB to get to the next level (I believe Ogletree already could be) I'm in no way bashing JL55, I'm fully aware of what that green decal on his helmet constitutes, that being said if he were the weak link in the Rams LB corps that would be a good thing, and if that means his playing time suffers (yes I know he's decent in coverage) then so be it.

It will be interesting to see if the Rams draft a LB within their first 3 picks, I think there's a shot they will.

 

[Ramifications]

Completely agree tree has Pro Bowl potential.

I think he is better at a comparable stage of development than CAR WLB Thomas Davis, also Pro Bowl caliber (harsh luck with three torn ACLs in about as many seasons), fellow Georgia alum and safety/LB background. Tree might be superior in coverage.

It will definitely be fun to watch the draft. I do think a LB could be drafted, but more like day three.