Defensive tweaks

[Merlin]

Greg Williams had this defense humming at all levels.

Last years defense wasn’t elite because the offense was simply terrible.

Rams gave up 394 points last year. 22 other teams gave up fewer points. A great defense doesn't need an offense's help to get off the field. We can play "what if the offense was great" all day but fact is the Rams did not ever have a great defense under Fisher or Williams. They had a defense that played great some games, but they could never keep it up game to game over the course of a season.

Doubting Wade is premature. Let's see how this defense looks by even midseason before we get all crazy about acting like we lost something going away from our beloved 4-3.

 

[jrry32]

I read somewhere yesterday Wade said he is moving Brockers out from nose T to end and put Walker in at nose. I like that move and think Brockers will be better at containing the run.

I like that idea a lot.

Honestly, except for a few games last year, our defense wasn’t great. We’re generating a lot more turnovers this year. It will get better.

I disagree. Our defense was dominant over the first 10 or so games. The Saints destroyed us, and the team quit after that.

 

[A.J. Hicks]

You think? Maybe I was just praying it was the other way! Lol and reading to cowpoke forums they seem to think he’s going to be playing over Whitworth which I pray he will! Hopefully Havenstein will be able to limit him!

Against the Cards he was matched up against the RT tackle about every single time that I saw him generate pressure.

Jordan Lewis of the Cowboys had a good game. But the Cards real receiving option after injuries in Fitz.

I expect Watkins, Woods, Kupp, Everett, Gurley to generate some match up problems.

I wouldn't discount Tavon either. This is a fast surface in Dallas.

 

[Dxmissile]

Rams gave up 394 points last year. 22 other teams gave up fewer points. A great defense doesn't need an offense's help to get off the field. We can play "what if the offense was great" all day but fact is the Rams did not ever have a great defense under Fisher or Williams. They had a defense that played great some games, but they could never keep it up game to game over the course of a season.

Doubting Wade is premature. Let's see how this defense looks by even midseason before we get all crazy about acting like we lost something going away from our beloved 4-3.

Nobody is doubting Wade but acting like a historically bad offense doesn’t effect the defense is asinine. How many games did the defense stay on the field longer then the offense. How many 3 and outs and turnovers the offense had that put the defense in terrible field position. You said they had a defense that played great some games but how many games did the offense win for us. How many 1-3 points games did we lose. Lol I swear as soon as coaches and players leave the team it’s as if all they accomplished never happened

 

[Merlin]

Nobody is doubting Wade but acting like a historically bad offense doesn’t effect the defense is asinine. How many games did the defense stay on the field longer then the offense. How many 3 and outs and turnovers the offense had that put the defense in terrible field position. You said they had a defense that played great some games but how many games did the offense win for us. How many 1-3 points games did we lose. Lol I swear as soon as coaches and players leave the team it’s as if all they accomplished never happened

The conversation is the defense for this season, and what must be done for it to get where it needs to be. Then the posts come in lamenting the loss of the 4-3, doubting the 3-4, doubting Wade, etc.

I am simply pointing out that our defense was never as good as the hype. They always lacked consistency, which btw is the hallmark of great defenses. If you want to believe they would have gotten themselves off the field better with a lead, so be it. Not going to waste my time talking about what might have been. Why? Because even if we agree they might have been a little better with a rest here and there we then waste our time arguing over how much better than they would have been. And in the end it doesn't matter, since great defenses are great on their own merits.

Just about everywhere Wade has been he has fielded defenses that produce at a high level. When you couple that with the fact that our defense has been overrated as F, there is no great travesty in us transitioning over. And I believe time will prove that to be true. So let's agree to disagree man and we'll see how this thing ends up.

 

[DR RAM]

So what the hell happened to our defense. It's the same guys with a
Few exceptions:

Webster instead of EJ Gaines
Joyner instead of TJ McDonald
Barwin instead of Hayes

I've went back and watched all three games focusing on the defense. Here is what really sticks out:

The Colts game we played well.

The skins game we obviously gave up huge amounts of yards in the run. Donald's first game back and the Dline got pushed around. Barron and Ogletree were getting manhandled by shooting guards and instead of filling gaps were spending too much time reading where the RB was going or just guessing. Rams pass defense was pretty good until the last TD where Trumaine cramped up and Skins went after Our backup CB with Kayvin also going out earlier. Against the pass Olgeltree and Barron showed their inability to stay with underneath Wr's.

Against the Niners. Run defense improved for sure. Dline winning battles and Barron really stepped up in run support. Olgeltree still struggling. Pass defense fell apart on many levels. Barwin drops back too much. He needs to rush the passer or be replaced. He is no use in no mans land. Underneath routes were wide open. Olgeltree. Barron and our safety's are just too late covering these in Zone coverage.

Supposedly Son of Bum is the defensive Genius to get us right.. I have my doubts.

Tweaks we need:

1 Everyone healthy. Webster back should help if he is as good as Bum says. With Joyner out and Cody questionable we may see another harsh day for our defense.

2. Barwin is in many regards a drop off from Will Hayes. He can't push the pocket or set vs the run like Hayes. I would force him to stop Roving around and get to the dam QB. If he can't be a force va the run I replace him.

3 Olgeltree - He has to get better vs the run. He has to get way better in coverage underneath. If I see the same crap vs Dallas I consider moving him to OLB to replace Barwin and next man up at ILB. I know this doesn't happen in the real world but something has to change.

I'm afraid that teams are probably using audibles to get Barwin in those situations, I would. Barron, and Ogletree need to play faster, and I mean mentally, so I hope that that happens very soon, or we will lose games, just because of that.

I see gaffes in responsibilities, and players thinking too much. I see our backers being undersized, so thay can't wait, they have to react, or they will continue to get swallowed up. Our safety play is not good enough...period. We are getting vertually no pass rush, this kills us, helps opponents QB, and WR's, and kills our secondary, and linebackers covering underneath.

On the Trumaine play against Garcon, I don't know if anyone mentioned it, but I think Garcon pulled Tru's arm, and got him off balance...a savvy vet move. If we stink on defense this game, I was thinking of doing one of my scouting reports, and play for play figuring out what went wrong, because I need to know.

Let's hope we got some shit figured out, so that we can smash the Cowboys, and let the football world know that we are a legit contender. I wish, at this point, we had the GW/Fisher D. Wade needs to figure it out, but he doesn't need me telling him that.

Thanks for your write up.

 

[Legatron4]

I like that idea a lot.



I disagree. Our defense was dominant over the first 10 or so games. The Saints destroyed us, and the team quit after that.

Dominant is a little overstating it. They gave up 28 against the Whiners, 25 vs the Bucs, 24 vs the Bills and 31 vs the Lions. The thing with Gregg Williams defense is it’s predicated on bend but don’t break mentality. Those were all in games we played well on offense(except for SanFran). In fact, our defense allowed more points in games where our offense averaged more then 17 ppg. They actually seemed to feed off the bad offense just to keep us in games. But couldn’t close out opponents when needed.

 

[jrry32]

Dominant is a little overstating it. They gave up 28 against the Whiners, 25 vs the Bucs, 24 vs the Bills and 31 vs the Lions. The thing with Gregg Williams defense is it’s predicated on bend but don’t break mentality. Those were all in games we played well on offense(except for SanFran). In fact, our defense allowed more points in games where our offense averaged more then 17 ppg. They actually seemed to feed off the bad offense just to keep us in games. But couldn’t close out opponents when needed.

Over the first 10 games, our defense was giving up around 17 points and 317 yards per game. That was despite getting hammered with injuries at certain points of the year. It was performing as one of the top 5 defenses in the NFL to that point. The entire team fell apart after that.

 

[Legatron4]

Over the first 10 games, our defense was giving up around 17 points and 317 yards per game. That was despite getting hammered with injuries at certain points of the year. It was performing as one of the top 5 defenses in the NFL to that point. The entire team fell apart after that.

Statistics don’t mean much to me though. They didn’t come through in games that we actually scored. Tampa Bay just ran out of time. They failed to give the offense a chance against the Bills and Lions. Hell, if it wasn’t for a shoe string tackle we probably lose to Seattle as well. They also fell apart vs the Dolphins. I just didn’t see a great defense. They were too inconsistent.

 

[1maGoh]

The conversation is the defense for this season, and what must be done for it to get where it needs to be. Then the posts come in lamenting the loss of the 4-3, doubting the 3-4, doubting Wade, etc.

I am simply pointing out that our defense was never as good as the hype. They always lacked consistency, which btw is the hallmark of great defenses. If you want to believe they would have gotten themselves off the field better with a lead, so be it. Not going to waste my time talking about what might have been. Why? Because even if we agree they might have been a little better with a rest here and there we then waste our time arguing over how much better than they would have been. And in the end it doesn't matter, since great defenses are great on their own merits.

Just about everywhere Wade has been he has fielded defenses that produce at a high level. When you couple that with the fact that our defense has been overrated as F, there is no great travesty in us transitioning over. And I believe time will prove that to be true. So let's agree to disagree man and we'll see how this thing ends up.

It's not about whether or not they could get off the field faster. It's that if the offense was better they would have been on the field less.

Instead of the offense going 3 and out and the defense going right back on for another series where they maybe give up points, if the offense was better the opposite offense wouldn't have had a chance. Every minute extra that our offense stayed on the field is one less chance the other offense had to score.

I know that's basic and I don't think you didn't know that, but that's what would have had our defense giving up less points, not some magical better performance because they were in the field less. Less time means less potential to give up points and yards. Which means the stats would look better.

 

[jrry32]

Statistics don’t mean much to me though.

I don't know what to tell you if you don't care how many points we gave up on average.

They didn’t come through in games that we actually scored. Tampa Bay just ran out of time. They failed to give the offense a chance against the Bills and Lions.

Tampa Bay had a good team, but it's also hard to ignore the pick-six that Keenum threw and the fumble return TD by our defense in that one. You're asking for the defense to shut teams down weak in and weak out. What defenses did that last year?

As for the Bills and Lions games, do you remember the injuries those weeks? The Bills ran all over us because we were missing our entire starting DL except for Donald. Against the Lions, we were missing Tru and Quinn. They threw all over us because of it.

Even then, the offense had a chance in both games. Keenum's pick-six against the Bills is what put the game out of reach. Against the Lions, the defense did let us down, but we still had two chances to win it in the 4th quarter. We went three-and-out the first time which led to the Lions kicking the game-winning FG. We then got the ball back down 3, and Keenum threw a pick.

Hell, if it wasn’t for a shoe string tackle we probably lose to Seattle as well. They also fell apart vs the Dolphins. I just didn’t see a great defense. They were too inconsistent.

We beat Seattle 9 to 3. You're barking up the wrong tree if you're trying to invoke that game as anything other than a great defensive performance. They gave up 14 points to a Dolphins team that went 10-6 and made the playoffs.

Seattle, again, had one of the top defenses in the NFL last year. They gave up 34 points to Arizona, 23 points to San Francisco, 38 points to Green Bay, 25 points to the Bills, and 25 points to the Saints. Were they also too inconsistent to be a top defense?

Listen, you're entitled to your opinion, man, but I think you're holding last year's defense to unrealistic expectations. If you want to argue they sucked down the stretch, I will agree. But I don't think that was indicative of the defense's performance at its best. In 2014 and 2015, it was one of the best in the NFL at not giving up points. That was true again in 2016 until the entire team fell apart from the 11th game on.

 

[Corbin]

Against the Cards he was matched up against the RT tackle about every single time that I saw him generate pressure.

Jordan Lewis of the Cowboys had a good game. But the Cards real receiving option after injuries in Fitz.

I expect Watkins, Woods, Kupp, Everett, Gurley to generate some match up problems.

I wouldn't discount Tavon either. This is a fast surface in Dallas.

You defiantly we aren’t the Cards, that for sure! We will be having a hell of a lot of weapons to choose! I hope my boy Lewis chills out tomorrow and doesn’t do anything crazy!

 

[Rambitious1]

Unfortunately our defense is not built for a 3-4. I'd like to see us go 4-3. A little hard for a midseason change, but that's how we could improve.

Ogle stop guessing and improvising, and hit your designed gap.

No having the personal for the 3-4 was my concern from the get go.....
So far, unfortunately I seem to have been proven correct.
Maybe Son of Bum can fix this before years end, but I too have my doubts.

 

[jrry32]

No having the personal for the 3-4 was my concern from the get go.....
So far, unfortunately I seem to have been proven correct.
Maybe Son of Bum can fix this before years end, but I too have my doubts.

I'm not sold it's not having the personnel that's the issue. I don't think the personnel we have are performing. We'll see what Phillips can tweak and if it is successful.

 

[Mojo Ram]

So what the hell happened to our defense. It's the same guys with a
Few exceptions:

Webster instead of EJ Gaines
Joyner instead of TJ McDonald
Barwin instead of Hayes

Wade Phillips instead of Gregg Williams