David Carr: Difference between Carson Wentz, Jared Goff is the reps

[jrry32]

Clearly.

Clearly not.

 

[jap]

The comparisons between Jared and Carson are coming way too early by knee jerk reactionaries. After all, the Eagles beat the Browns---it's not like they stomped all over a powerhouse. The '9ers may not be what they used to be, but they field a decent defense, and they know what our players can do, and they defensed us well . . . in a game where Jared did not even dress.

If it is true that Eric "the Great" Dickerson feels Chris Weinke is over his head as an NFL level QB coach, it is a crying shame that he is not working with perhaps the greatest QB guru within the last two decades . . . Mad Mike. Mike can find out where our QBs are mentally and heart-wise as fast as anyone, and he can show Chris the ropes as far as mentoring Chris as an NFL-level QB coach. Yes, I am singing my Mad Mike Rainbows in the Sky dreams again, but is he really that hard to work with?

 

[OregonRamsFan]

The comparisons between Jared and Carson are coming way too early by knee jerk reactionaries. After all, the Eagles beat the Browns---it's not like they stomped all over a powerhouse. The '9ers may not be what they used to be, but they field a decent defense, and they know what our players can do, and they defensed us well . . . in a game where Jared did not even dress.

If it is true that Eric "the Great" Dickerson feels Chris Weinke is over his head as an NFL level QB coach, it is a crying shame that he is not working with perhaps the greatest QB guru within the last two decades . . . Mad Mike. Mike can find out where our QBs are mentally and heart-wise as fast as anyone, and he can show Chris the ropes as far as mentoring Chris as an NFL-level QB coach. Yes, I am singing my Mad Mike Rainbows in the Sky dreams again, but is he really that hard to work with?

I'll go you one better, bring back as many of those guys as you can as coaches and consultants, as the winning bug can rub off on the new guys. GSOT guys should be present on the practice field. The team will look up to them and listen.

 

[Adi]

Goff is the only top drafted 10 QB that hasn't been the guy from day one. Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Sam Bradford, Mark Sanchez, Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, RG3, Blake Bortles, Marcus Mariota, Jameis Winston and now Carson Wentz have all immediately been the guy. There was literally no reason Goff shouldn't have been the starter from day 1.

I think the coaches are too in love with their system, which obviously has not worked for over a year. Most of the names above the offensive coordinators switched game plans so it would work for the qb.

 

[OC_Ram]

To Goff or not to Goff. I am still trying to understand how we fielded an opening day shut out against a team in rebuild mode. A better question may be to Fish or not to Fish. I don't want to Fish today.

 

[FRO]

To Goff or not to Goff. I am still trying to understand how we fielded an opening day shut out against a team in rebuild mode. A better question may be to Fish or not to Fish. I don't want to Fish today.

You went into the first game of 2016 with the same coaches and personnel as the last ranked 2015 offense. How the Rams brains trust didn't see it as a problem is beyond me.

 

[jrry32]

Clearly.

Anyways, I gave you half-assed response this morning to poke fun at you and because I was about to go to bed. Here's my real response. Goff and Wentz both had things going for them that arguably made them more "pro ready." Wentz had his offensive scheme. Goff had his polished mechanics and mental acuity. From there, it all comes down to which one you think will be a tougher fix. Will it be tougher to get Goff up to speed on a NFL scheme or will it be tougher to fix Wentz's lower body mechanics and inconsistencies with mental processing speed?

For me, I chose the former as the easier fix. Frankly, I still don't believe it was the wrong decision. QBs like Goff typically take a little longer to get up to speed in the pros. It doesn't make them less pro ready. It just means there is a bigger learning curve. When you look at some of the best rookie seasons, you'll notice a common theme (outside of Dan Marino). The QBs are all supremely physically talented (RGIII, Russell Wilson, Marcus Mariota, Ben Roethlisberger, etc.). The thing about guys like that is they can come in and do damage quickly because NFL teams don't have film on them. NFL teams have to adapt to their style of play. Goff is a traditional pocket passer. NFL teams have seen that before. Goff is the one who has to adapt to NFL defenses. It's why guys like Jameis Winston, Peyton Manning, Derek Carr, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, etc. weren't as great as rookies. When you win with your mind, skills, and mental acuity, the NFL is a big transition.

However, what you find is that the longer careers go, the more you separate the wheat from the chaff. The guys who made an impact early due to their physical talent either learn to win with their arms and minds or they never become effective starting QBs for the long haul. On the other hand, the guys who win their minds and their arms just continue to get better the more experience they have.

Look at where Marcus Mariota and Jameis Winston were last year, now watch their respective Week 1 games from this year. I'm not saying that Mariota is a bad player. I am saying that Winston started out well behind him and has now passed him because he overcame the mental learning curve.

In that vein, it is no surprise to me that Wentz is more capable of producing better numbers early on. He's an athletic QB with a rocket for an arm. The true test for how good each will be will come down the road when both guys have an opportunity to overcome the mental learning curve and defenses have film on both.

Basically, what I'm saying is that production, especially early in rookie years, doesn't always coincide with "pro readiness." Which seems paradoxical. However, I don't think anyone would argue with the assertion that Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck are perhaps the two most pro ready passers of the past 20 years. Yet, Marcus Mariota and RGIII were both far more effective rookies. However, Manning and Luck improved significantly once they overcame the NFL mental learning curve.

So as crazy as it sounds, I think "pro readiness" tends to show more in Year 2 than Year 1. Obviously, if a guy is terrible in Year 1, he wasn't very pro ready.(ex. Blake Bortles) But when guys tend to fall more in the middle of the spectrum, I'd say Year 2 is the better gauge.

The gist of this point is that I expect Goff to be an upgrade on Keenum when he plays. However, he might not perform better than Carson Wentz as a rookie. That all said, I would be hesitant to take that as an indictment of Goff's "pro readiness" because that sort of thing will be more ascertainable in Year 2. Now, if Goff comes out and doesn't play well at all while Wentz tears it up, that's a different story.

 

[Merlin]

It is a fact that QBs who can run the read option automatically check defenses a bit. It keeps them honest enough that the rook sees less aggressive blitzing and testing of what they know due to the requirement to sustain gap integrity and crush the pocket. Great examples abound that back that up, too. Wilson is the most recognized example, although he is a freak who actually had a veteran grasp of the offense in his rookie year. But Cam Newton is the best example, because he didn't know squat his rookie season.

But the funny thing is that while pocket QBs take longer to develop they have much longer careers. And every bit as much success as their more athletic counterparts. The reason for this is that the ball moving in the air is faster than any player can run, and by extension guys who can think fast and dish that ball quickly to someone in space will consistently hurt defenses AND survive in this league longer.

I would still take Goff over Wentz for that reason. I think Wentz is going to get dinged up a lot, because his play style is physical and aggressive and as a coach you don't want to change that too much because it's who he is. Goff isn't wowing folks now, but it's going to be entertaining to see people reverse course as they start to see what he can do. The key for him is not getting killed right out the gate when he still might be shaky on certain protections in real time.