David Carr: Difference between Carson Wentz, Jared Goff is the reps

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Merlin

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http://www.fresnobee.com/sports/nfl/article101807917.html

By David Carr

Special to The Bee

When the Eagles made the decision to trade Sam Bradford and put in a rookie quarterback, a lot of heads were spinning. I’m sure that in Philly they were ready to completely lose it.

But the kid, Carson Wentz, comes out and plays great and what we saw the other day was exactly what we saw in the preseason and exactly what we saw in college. The downfield accuracy is there. The arm strength is there. He’s able to move. The mental processing is there. He’s going to make some mistakes, but all young guys are going to make mistakes. It’s a process. But just like my brother Derek, the game wasn’t too much for him. I wasn’t surprised. I think a lot of us were expecting this.

I was in the minority back in the spring when they were going back and forth between Carson and Cal quarterback Jared Goff as far as who should be the first pick in the draft (Goff went to the Los Angeles Rams with the No. 1 overall pick and Wentz No. 2 to Philadelphia), but there were significant differences in where they were coming out of college and in their ability to make a quick impact in the NFL.

It’s all an estimated guess by everyone who is throwing their two cents in. I wasn’t really that concerned about the level of play that Wentz went up against at North Dakota State, an FCS school. I was more concerned about what Cal asked Goff to do in college as opposed to what North Dakota State asked Wentz to do in college from an offensive perspective.

Wentz was in a more pro-style offense. It wasn’t necessarily the intangibles. (He showed his leadership qualities when he got hurt and worked his tail off to get back on the field.) It was more what they asked him to do at the line of scrimmage. He checked at the line. He moved protections. He threw on time and in rhythm in pro-style concepts. The arm strength was there. Everything was there. He was the clear No. 1 guy for me, and I think for a lot of people.

Watching his first preseason game, it was the same stuff. He wasn’t flustered. It wasn’t too much for him because mentally he was prepared for it. What coach Doug Pederson was asking him to execute, he had seen all of that, and the most important thing when you’re getting into that situation is what you’ve done before.

NFL quarterbacks have to learn protections. They have to learn where the hot guys are and which adjustments to make. In Wentz’s first preseason game, he faced a defense rushing seven and the Eagles only had six blockers. One guy was free. Wentz pointed it out to his slot receiver. The slot receiver made the adjustment. Wentz threw a little 8-yard slant against Cover Zero, with no deep help, and it was a successful play. Right then, you knew. It was his first action in the NFL and right then you knew he understood protections, he understood how to get the ball out with timing – he knows how to beat a blitz.

He was not afraid of the moment. That one play spoke volumes because that’s the hardest thing to teach. If you have that when you come in, you’re already a leg up on everybody else.

Goff, on the other hand, was never asked to throw hots. He was never asked to see the coverage and understand who you’re throwing against. Cal’s system is based on progression – you throw it here or you throw it here. Cal isn’t worried about what coverage the defense is in. They’re not worried about protections. Cal’s plan: Our scheme is going to beat what you run.

That’s great in college. You can score a lot of points doing that. But it doesn’t help you as far as understanding where to go against two-man, where to go against Cover Three, what routes beat certain coverages. You end up going from your X to your Y to your Z and that’s it, and for the most part you can do it, but it doesn’t help you transition your game into the NFL.

I’m not saying that Goff wasted his whole college career in an offense that’s not going to help him transition, because he threw pro-style concepts. This is a small piece to the puzzle. But that piece is huge in the NFL because you’re going to get tested to see if you know your protections, to see if you know where to go against a blitz and if you haven’t had those reps, like Goff hadn’t, you’re behind. That’s why he’s not starting in Los Angeles and Wentz is starting in Philadelphia and it really is that 5 percent to 10 percent of those reps throughout his college career that helped him be ahead.

Read more here: http://www.fresnobee.com/sports/nfl/article101807917.html#storylink=cpy
 

JerseyRam1

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We live in a world now that is so hyper focused on every little aspect of the NFL, that a reports form various contributors come flying out after every game. I did watch Wentz on Sunday and was very impressed with what he was able to do with limited reps with the 1st team. When the Rams traded up, I thought for sure it was to grab Wentz as I thought he fit the Fisher mold. Wiser NFL coaches and reporters explained in detail why Goff was a slight better prospect. Wentz did play a home game against the Browns, mind you and would not have even started or had been dressed if Bridgewater didnt blow out his knee.

Point is, if in 8 weeks from now Goff is crushing it and Wentz is struggling, the story will be different. Let some time sink in before comparison articles. Two weeks ago, Prescott was all the rage. Remember when Bradford and RGIII were rookies of the year??
 

Picked4td

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this article is exactly why i never understood why people thought Goff was the more ready prospect. Not that itll mean anything in the end but IMO Wentz was the far more ready prospect
 

jrry32

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Goff, on the other hand, was never asked to throw hots. He was never asked to see the coverage and understand who you’re throwing against. Cal’s system is based on progression – you throw it here or you throw it here. Cal isn’t worried about what coverage the defense is in. They’re not worried about protections. Cal’s plan: Our scheme is going to beat what you run.

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Legatron4

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Goff is the only top drafted 10 QB that hasn't been the guy from day one. Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Sam Bradford, Mark Sanchez, Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, RG3, Blake Bortles, Marcus Mariota, Jameis Winston and now Carson Wentz have all immediately been the guy. There was literally no reason Goff shouldn't have been the starter from day 1.
 

Dieter the Brock

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Carr is right - Goff didn't even have a chance to compete!!!

F'ing Flusher by not even dressing Goff shows how whacked this guys philosophy is - I mean by not dressing Goff he made sure there was Zero opportunity to for some magical come from behind moment where they pull Keenum and throw in Goff to save the day -

Flusher's philosophy is to have his prized #1 pick Jared Goff watch in street clothes and behold the guy he couldn't beat out for the starting job, a busted QB who sees ghosts.....? I mean what was he trying to accomplish?

The approach they have taken with Goff is akin to Chinese water torture
 

Merlin

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Goff is the only top drafted 10 QB that hasn't been the guy from day one. Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Sam Bradford, Mark Sanchez, Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, RG3, Blake Bortles, Marcus Mariota, Jameis Winston and now Carson Wentz have all immediately been the guy. There was literally no reason Goff shouldn't have been the starter from day 1.

The reason is the coach who drafted him is in year five of his contract and needs a winning season. It's a different deal from most QBs that are taken high.

Also of note is that both coaches who took QBs high last year got fired. Fish might be the third in a row if he can't get this thing rolling, but obviously if it happens for him it won't be because he got second guessed by the ownership on the up and down production of a rookie, it will be because his plan with Keenum was fatally flawed.
 

Merlin

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this article is exactly why i never understood why people thought Goff was the more ready prospect. Not that itll mean anything in the end but IMO Wentz was the far more ready prospect

I don't agree with everything Carr says. But I do think the title is accurate and with Wentz there is a good offensive staff in place to bring him online with what he can handle without being too predictable.

IMO a QB going to a great offensive staff is far, far, far greater a boon than what type of offense he played in college. A guy from a spread might not be ready right out the gate but if he's talented, and works hard under that staff he is going to succeed.
 

yrba1

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Looking back now, I overestimated the complexity of the Bear Raid offense. I initially thought it was a spread offense that implemented pro-style elements into it such as making more than one read but it looks like it doesn't have the pro-style elements we'd expect transitioning a rookie to the NFL.
 

jrry32

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I'm sure what Carr said made sense in his head, but it doesn't make sense on paper. And trust me, I have those moments. Something sounds brilliant in my head and then I say it and I realize that nobody is going to be able to make heads or tails of what I meant.

I'm not sure how a QB can run a progression-based system without understanding the coverages, knowing what he's throwing against, or understanding the protections. And if a QB did run a system like that, there would not be any examples of anticipation throws. Simply put, Goff's interviews and the interviews of his coaches directly contradict what David is saying.

Goff is the only top drafted 10 QB that hasn't been the guy from day one. Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Sam Bradford, Mark Sanchez, Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, RG3, Blake Bortles, Marcus Mariota, Jameis Winston and now Carson Wentz have all immediately been the guy. There was literally no reason Goff shouldn't have been the starter from day 1.

I agree with your point, but Bortles wasn't the guy from Day 1. Henne started the first 3 games.
 

thirteen28

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I don't agree with everything Carr says. But I do think the title is accurate and with Wentz there is a good offensive staff in place to bring him online with what he can handle without being too predictable.

IMO a QB going to a great offensive staff is far, far, far greater a boon than what type of offense he played in college. A guy from a spread might not be ready right out the gate but if he's talented, and works hard under that staff he is going to succeed.

Ditto on all points, but especially the bolded ones. And that leads me to my greatest fear with Goff - that the coaching staff we have isn't up to snuff to develop him to his full potential. It's hard for me to have confidence in that part of the staff (and Fisher overall as well) given what we've seen with the Rams offense the last four years, the slow (or non-) development of offensive skill position players, and the absolute clown show of offensive scheming and playcalling we saw Monday night.

I absolutely think Goff has the talent to be an elite QB. But I just don't have the confidence that Fisher, Boras, and co. can provide the know-how, direction, and scheme that will help Goff get to that point.
 

BatteringRambo

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The reason is the coach who drafted him is in year five of his contract and needs a winning season. It's a different deal from most QBs that are taken high.

Also of note is that both coaches who took QBs high last year got fired.

Not that it matters but I believe Mike Mularkey of the Titans was retained. (Off memory)
 

jrry32

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Not that it matters but I believe Mike Mularkey of the Titans was retained. (Off memory)

Oddly enough, both teams fired the HC and promoted the OC to HC. Mularkey was the OC when Mariota was drafted. Became interim HC after Whisenhunt was fired.
 

Roman Snow

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Eric Dickerson said today on the Rich Eisen Show basically that he thinks Weinke is over his head in the role of QB coach at this level.
 

Mojo Ram

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this article is exactly why i never understood why people thought Goff was the more ready prospect. Not that itll mean anything in the end but IMO Wentz was the far more ready prospect
Clearly.
 

Alaskan Ram

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All that matters is that Goff has game. The stuff you can't teach. We'll see soon enough.

Go Rams.
 

FRO

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I'm sure what Carr said made sense in his head, but it doesn't make sense on paper. And trust me, I have those moments. Something sounds brilliant in my head and then I say it and I realize that nobody is going to be able to make heads or tails of what I meant.

I'm not sure how a QB can run a progression-based system without understanding the coverages, knowing what he's throwing against, or understanding the protections. And if a QB did run a system like that, there would not be any examples of anticipation throws. Simply put, Goff's interviews and the interviews of his coaches directly contradict what David is saying.



I agree with your point, but Bortles wasn't the guy from Day 1. Henne started the first 3 games.
Bortles also didn't play too well as a rookie, but that experience paid off in his second year. That's why Goff needs to play.