Daniel Jeremiah on this year's QB class

[jrry32]

Disagree. His mobility is anything but average, and his arm strength isn't below average at all.
He throws this 55 yarder pretty effortlessly it looks like. Can't see him needing to throw much further at this level.

Distance doesn't give you an accurate indicator of arm strength. The vast majority of NFL QBs can throw it 55 yards if they took multiple steps and put their entire body into it. And even still, that ball hung up their for quite awhile.

The best routes to gauge arm strength on are from the pocket to the sidelines in the 10-25 yard range. Kessler's balls on those routes float. He doesn't have much oomph on it.

I disagree. His mobility is average. You're talking about mobility comparable to guys like Andy Dalton, Matt Stafford, Jay Cutler, etc. To me, above average are guys like Bridgewater, Bortles, Rodgers, etc.. The next tier up are guys like Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Tannehill, etc. The top tier is comprised of guys like Kaepernick, Wilson, RGIII, etc.

Again, I haven't broken down his technical skills and mental acuity but physically, I don't think he's any better in terms of tools than a guy like Andy Dalton. He has an edge on Barkley because he does have better feet and mobility...I will give you that.

Obviously, physical tools aren't the end all be all...but the kid will have to be really talented in the other aspects to make up for what he's lacking. He might be. I don't know. Teddy Bridgewater is a guy who doesn't have all the physical skills but I think he makes up for it other areas.

 

[-X-]

Distance doesn't give you an accurate indicator of arm strength. The vast majority of NFL QBs can throw it 55 yards if they took multiple steps and put their entire body into it. And even still, that ball hung up their for quite awhile.

The best routes to gauge arm strength on are from the pocket to the sidelines in the 10-25 yard range. Kessler's balls on those routes float. He doesn't have much oomph on it.

I disagree. His mobility is average. You're talking about mobility comparable to guys like Andy Dalton, Matt Stafford, Jay Cutler, etc. To me, above average are guys like Bridgewater, Bortles, Rodgers, etc.. The next tier up are guys like Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Tannehill, etc. The top tier is comprised of guys like Kaepernick, Wilson, RGIII, etc.

Again, I haven't broken down his technical skills and mental acuity but physically, I don't think he's any better in terms of tools than a guy like Andy Dalton. He has an edge on Barkley because he does have better feet and mobility...I will give you that.

Obviously, physical tools aren't the end all be all...but the kid will have to be really talented in the other aspects to make up for what he's lacking. He might be. I don't know. Teddy Bridgewater is a guy who doesn't have all the physical skills but I think he makes up for it other areas.

Well sure, if you're building a robotron QB, you'd like for him to rifle it like Favre, but that's not necessary when you have good ball placement, vision, and anticipation. Look at how Manning does it. Looks like he's throwing water balloons out there half the time. Kessler isn't Aaron Rodgers, but he's also not any of the other flat-footed QBs you mentioned either. I'm talking about the mobility necessary to climb the pocket and elude the pass rush, so we probably have different definitions of mobility. That said, I've seen him take off out of the pocket and throw on the run, and he throws a pretty ball while on the move. He also keeps his eyes downfield all the time *while* navigating the pocket and moving out of it.

I have nothing invested in this kid from a personal standpoint, because I'm not really a USC fan. I'm an ACC guy. And I don't even scout that often anymore because it's such an exhausting and time-consuming endeavor. But every once in a while I'll see a guy that makes me pay attention because I see that certain *it* factor. I'd look at guys like Winston or Mariota more closely, but what's the point? We're not getting them. If you get a chance, take a closer look and don't pay attention to the competition. Just look at how he handles the position and you'll see he's pretty much a pure football player.

And (edit) here's one that doesn't float as much (almost 60 yards).

 

[jrry32]

Well sure, if you're building a robotron QB, you'd like for him to rifle it like Favre, but that's not necessary when you have good ball placement, vision, and anticipation. Look at how Manning does it. Looks like he's throwing water balloons out there half the time. Kessler isn't Aaron Rodgers, but he's also not any of the other flat-footed QBs you mentioned either. I'm talking about the mobility necessary to climb the pocket and elude the pass rush, so we probably have different definitions of mobility. That said, I've seen him take off out of the pocket and throw on the run, and he throws a pretty ball while on the move. He also keeps his eyes downfield all the time *while* navigating the pocket and moving out of it.

I have nothing invested in this kid from a personal standpoint, because I'm not really a USC fan. I'm an ACC guy. And I don't even scout that often anymore because it's such an exhausting and time-consuming endeavor. But every once in a while I'll see a guy that makes me pay attention because I see that certain *it* factor. I'd look at guys like Winston or Mariota more closely, but what's the point? We're not getting them. If you get a chance, take a closer look and don't pay attention to the competition. Just look at how he handles the position and you'll see he's pretty much a pure football player.

You're either selling Stafford, Cutler, and Dalton short or you're overselling Kessler. Those guys are all able to move and buy time with their feet.
http://www.bengals.com/media-lounge...down-run/2191ac19-97ba-4266-b18a-7f590d1d31f8
http://www.giants.com/videos/videos...D-TD-run/2c4ed461-15fa-41e1-9d42-9f0c63d4c805

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jou2xbSF2w


The issue is when you don't have a strong arm, it means you have to be that much more precise with your reads, accuracy, and timing. I don't knock a guy for not having a strong arm...but he has to have the technical and mental skills to compensate.

Like I said, if he declares, I'll take a close look. I'm certainly not opposed to any QB. I want there to be a guy worth taking.

 

[-X-]

You're either selling Stafford, Cutler, and Dalton short or you're overselling Kessler. Those guys are all able to move and buy time with their feet.
http://www.bengals.com/media-lounge...down-run/2191ac19-97ba-4266-b18a-7f590d1d31f8
http://www.giants.com/videos/videos...D-TD-run/2c4ed461-15fa-41e1-9d42-9f0c63d4c805

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jou2xbSF2w


The issue is when you don't have a strong arm, it means you have to be that much more precise with your reads, accuracy, and timing. I don't knock a guy for not having a strong arm...but he has to have the technical and mental skills to compensate.

Like I said, if he declares, I'll take a close look. I'm certainly not opposed to any QB. I want there to be a guy worth taking.

Yeah, let's not get caught up in semantics. I said we probably have different definitions of mobility when you were relegating him to Dalton and putting him out of reach of Rodgers. He's (to me at least) always bouncing (like Manning does), and those QBs don't do that. I really don't see the below average arm you see, but we might have different definitions of that as well. He doesn't have the zip of Bradford, but he's not Clemens either (see the video I added to my post above).

You should take a closer look anyway - whether or not he declares. Because if he stays, you'll want him bad in 2016.

 

[jrry32]

Yeah, let's not get caught up in semantics. I said we probably have different definitions of mobility when you were relegating him to Dalton and putting him out of reach of Rodgers. He's (to me at least) always bouncing (like Manning does), and those QBs don't do that. I really don't see the below average arm you see, but we might have different definitions of that as well. He doesn't have the zip of Bradford, but he's not Clemens either (see the video I added to my post above).

You should take a closer look anyway - whether or not he declares. Because if he stays, you'll want him bad in 2016.

Some QBs don't really bounce. As long as you keep your feet active and keep from getting flat-footed, you're fine.

Speaking of Rodgers...I had not seen this before...damnnnnnnnnnn:

View: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000402599/Aaron-Rodgers-TD-pass-nullified-by-penalty

 

[-X-]

Some QBs don't really bounce. As long as you keep your feet active and keep from getting flat-footed, you're fine.

Speaking of Rodgers...I had not seen this before...damnnnnnnnnnn:

View: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000402599/Aaron-Rodgers-TD-pass-nullified-by-penalty

lol. That's the difference between Rodgers and Manziel. Manziel gets that pass picked off twice in one play.

 

[jrry32]

And (edit) here's one that doesn't float as much (almost 60 yards).

That's 46 yards, X.

Caught it at the Opp 49 and ball was released from his 5.

 

[jrry32]

lol. That's the difference between Rodgers and Manziel. Manziel gets that pass picked off twice in one play.

I was thinking that he gets stripped sacked...picks it up and then gets intercepted...but I'm intrigued by this double interception idea.

 

[-X-]

That's 46 yards, X.

Caught it at the Opp 49 and ball was released from his 5.

Potato, potahtoe. Nice throw though.

 

[Warner4Prez]

Vernon Adams Jr. of Eastern Washington. If he finds a team willing to draft a small QB, he'll be the next Russell Wilson for sure.

 

[woofwoofmo]

Another one to keep an eye on is Old Dominion QB Taylor Heinike. He should be at one of the All-Star games, either Senior or East-West Shrine. He's already sign with Lee Steinberg's agency, so somebody thinks he has potential. Mel Kiper Jr. even has him as one to watch on his Top 10 QB prospects for this year's draft.

 

[Rainram]

Gonna put my cart way ahead of my horse and say I think I'll like the 2016 QB Class.

All the more reason to see if we can trade down in this draft and grab an extra pick next year.

 

[Dodgersrf]

Distance doesn't give you an accurate indicator of arm strength. The vast majority of NFL QBs can throw it 55 yards if they took multiple steps and put their entire body into it. And even still, that ball hung up their for quite awhile.

The best routes to gauge arm strength on are from the pocket to the sidelines in the 10-25 yard range. Kessler's balls on those routes float. He doesn't have much oomph on it.

I disagree. His mobility is average. You're talking about mobility comparable to guys like Andy Dalton, Matt Stafford, Jay Cutler, etc. To me, above average are guys like Bridgewater, Bortles, Rodgers, etc.. The next tier up are guys like Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Tannehill, etc. The top tier is comprised of guys like Kaepernick, Wilson, RGIII, etc.

Again, I haven't broken down his technical skills and mental acuity but physically, I don't think he's any better in terms of tools than a guy like Andy Dalton. He has an edge on Barkley because he does have better feet and mobility...I will give you that.

Obviously, physical tools aren't the end all be all...but the kid will have to be really talented in the other aspects to make up for what he's lacking. He might be. I don't know. Teddy Bridgewater is a guy who doesn't have all the physical skills but I think he makes up for it other areas.

I saw him in a few games this year and his arm had plenty of life. I loved his composure and decisions as well.
I don't get a chance to watch a ton of college, but he was one of best I've seen all year. He surely isn't a dink and dunk guy like Geno Smith was in college.
He can and does make the throws.

 

[jrry32]

I saw him in a few games this year and his arm had plenty of life. I loved his composure and decisions as well.
I don't get a chance to watch a ton of college, but he was one of best I've seen all year. He surely isn't a dink and dunk guy like Geno Smith was in college.
He can and does make the throws.

His passes do not have the juice. The guy's arm strength is lacking. You're talking about Andy Dalton level arm strength. Not going to keep you from being successful by itself...Brees's arm isn't much stronger and Peyton's arm is weaker...but it's still an issue.

 

[Dodgersrf]

His passes do not have the juice. The guy's arm strength is lacking. You're talking about Andy Dalton level arm strength. Not going to keep you from being successful by itself...Brees's arm isn't much stronger and Peyton's arm is weaker...but it's still an issue.

Arm strength is the major reason, many thought Ryan Leaf would have a better career than Manning.
Breese fell to the second rnd because of size and arm strength. Both Manning and Brees are doing fine. ( I'm not saying Kessler is either)
I'll take the smart, accurate qb anytime.

 

[jrry32]

Arm strength is the major reason, many thought Ryan Leaf would have a better career than Manning.
Breese fell to the second rnd because of size and arm strength. Both Manning and Brees are doing fine. ( I'm not saying Kessler is either)
I'll take the smart, accurate qb anytime.

Not exactly. Leaf had all world talent. Guy just was a complete mess mentally.

But I already made the same point. Regardless, arm strength is still important. Peyton Manning and Drew Brees are special. The thing is that the weaker you arm, the better your ball placement and timing have to be.

I would never count a guy out because of arm strength(unless he just literally can't push it down the field) but it's certainly something that can hinder a player.

Does Kessler have the skill to compensate? I don't know. Will have to get back to you on that.

I gotta ask, though, what separates Cody Kessler from guys like Aaron Murray, A.J. McCarron, David Fales, and Garrett Grayson?

I am not writing Kessler off. I am seriously asking that question. I haven't evaluated him yet so I don't know.

 

[Dodgersrf]

Not exactly. Leaf had all world talent. Guy just was a complete mess mentally.

But I already made the same point. Regardless, arm strength is still important. Peyton Manning and Drew Brees are special. The thing is that the weaker you arm, the better your ball placement and timing have to be.

I would never count a guy out because of arm strength(unless he just literally can't push it down the field) but it's certainly something that can hinder a player.

Does Kessler have the skill to compensate? I don't know. Will have to get back to you on that.

I gotta ask, though, what separates Cody Kessler from guys like Aaron Murray, A.J. McCarron, David Fales, and Garrett Grayson?

I am not writing Kessler off. I am seriously asking that question. I haven't evaluated him yet so I don't know.

Im the wrong person to ask..I don't get to watch much college.
I tried to watch more this year.

By the way. I watched some Florida St. to see Winston play and kept being drawn in by Ramsey.
What do you think of the kid?

 

[jrry32]

Im the wrong person to ask..I don't get to watch much college.
I tried to watch more this year.

By the way. I watched some Florida St. to see Winston play and kept being drawn in by Ramsey.
What do you think of the kid?

I'm probably the wrong person to ask haha. A lot of people think I'm too high on him. I think his closest NFL comparison is Brett Favre. I think he's going to be really, really good if he's not a complete mess upstairs like Leaf.

My Winston trade-up scenario has a more detailed breakdown.

 

[Dodgersrf]

I'm probably the wrong person to ask haha. A lot of people think I'm too high on him. I think his closest NFL comparison is Brett Favre. I think he's going to be really, really good if he's not a complete mess upstairs like Leaf.

My Winston trade-up scenario has a more detailed breakdown.

Lol.
I was actually asking about Ramsey from Florida St.

 

[jrry32]

Lol.
I was actually asking about Ramsey from Florida St.

Oh. Ramsey. I think he's a bigger, more athletic Joyner. Not a shutdown CB but a jack of all trades type that makes plays all over the field. Will probably be best used as a safety in the NFL or as a slot CB on a team that blitzes their DBs a lot.