Current draft order

[BonifayRam]

But there isn't a DB worthy of taking in the top 5. I wish there was but from what I'm reading, there isn't one even close to top 5. I'd be willing to be all of my ROD bucks that our second first rounder will be a DB, though.

I would agree that the secondary unit is the weakest of the defense side of the ball & rivals the receiver cadre in weakness & under performing . Rams have put so much serious Ram capital and Ram resources into this secondary with very sour results. (1)-New hire of DC Walton with major secondary back ground, (2)- One vet CB.. @ high cost 50 million UFA signing, (3)-Fisher has used four 2012/2013 draft picks THREE second day draft selections (1-2nd & 2-3rd rounders) plus ONE 5th rounder. (4)-Signed two vets former starting safeties in Stewart & Giordano. (5)- Signed 4 UDFA DB's in Daniels-Davis-Pointer & McLeod. Results on the field have been very poor. Why? One could say injuries to starters Finnegan & McDonald plus the lost of Matt Daniels but before CF & TJ mac were hurt the secondary was weak & often beaten.

It would appear that the needed CB's will have to be targeted in the very late part of the first round & go on from there. If Snead elects to trade our top five RG3 pick for a late first rd pick with a couple of second day (2nd & 3rd rounds) 2014 draft picks he could select some of the better corners available. Presently Snead/Fisher have one decent starting CB in Johnson. Jenkins has had a very poor yr something is wrong with him and his play has deteriorated to awful. I think he is at odds with the DC Walton required playoff approach. if so JJ may want to play elsewhere in 2014. McGee is a big unknown and CB Pointer has been cut so many times the last few yrs he has no ideal whats going on. Then there is the one man loss machine called Cortland Finnegan whom many think will rebound for a good yr in 2014 to earn another 10 million plus to play in the Nickle & Dime defenses....:yousure: NOT going to happen! Just sounds so silly to me but that's just me....you don't pay 10 plus million for a slow.... small...who has forgot how to tackle Nickel back. If you have cap money to throw away then spend it on a Rodger Saffold who has much less questions on him and when he is on field you see positive results unlike Finnegan. Rams will need two talented CB's in the 2014 draft to go with Johnson, McGee & Jenkins. That will give you 2 third season vets 1 in his second yr & two rookies.

Fisher will most likely move away from Ram safety free agents vets Giordano & Stewart in the off season. Rams will have four young safeties under contract in 2014 with 3rd season Rodney McLeod, three second season safeties TJ McDonald, Matt Daniels & Cody Davis. If this young safety quartet can stay healthy it should be able to more than hold its own. Many want a first round draft pick used on a safety....but IMO this quad cadre could be very strong. Matt Daniels is one serious hitter but he must prove he can remain healthy. He has had three straight back to back seasons with injuries that has him IR'd. But when healthy he is a serious hitter with smarts & size to play. But I can easily see Snead drafting a safety but not using a first round pick to do it.

 

[V3]

I would agree that the secondary unit is the weakest of the defense side of the ball & rivals the receiver cadre in weakness & under performing . Rams have put so much serious Ram capital and Ram resources into this secondary with very sour results. (1)-New hire of DC Walton with major secondary back ground, (2)- One vet CB.. @ high cost 50 million UFA signing, (3)-Fisher has used four 2012/2013 draft picks THREE second day draft selections (1-2nd & 2-3rd rounders) plus ONE 5th rounder. (4)-Signed two vets former starting safeties in Stewart & Giordano. (5)- Signed 4 UDFA DB's in Daniels-Davis-Pointer & McLeod. Results on the field have been very poor. Why? One could say injuries to starters Finnegan & McDonald plus the lost of Matt Daniels but before CF & TJ mac were hurt the secondary was weak & often beaten.

It would appear that the needed CB's will have to be targeted in the very late part of the first round & go on from there. If Snead elects to trade our top five RG3 pick for a late first rd pick with a couple of second day (2nd & 3rd rounds) 2014 draft picks he could select some of the better corners available. Presently Snead/Fisher have one decent starting CB in Johnson. Jenkins has had a very poor yr something is wrong with him and his play has deteriorated to awful. I think he is at odds with the DC Walton required playoff approach. if so JJ may want to play elsewhere in 2014. McGee is a big unknown and CB Pointer has been cut so many times the last few yrs he has no ideal whats going on. Then there is the one man loss machine called Cortland Finnegan whom many think will rebound for a good yr in 2014 to earn another 10 million plus to play in the Nickle & Dime defenses....:yousure: NOT going to happen! Just sounds so silly to me but that's just me....you don't pay 10 plus million for a slow.... small...who has forgot how to tackle Nickel back. If you have cap money to throw away then spend it on a Rodger Saffold who has much less questions on him and when he is on field you see positive results unlike Finnegan. Rams will need two talented CB's in the 2014 draft to go with Johnson, McGee & Jenkins. That will give you 2 third season vets 1 in his second yr & two rookies.

Fisher will most likely move away from Ram safety free agents vets Giordano & Stewart in the off season. Rams will have four young safeties under contract in 2014 with 3rd season Rodney McLeod, three second season safeties TJ McDonald, Matt Daniels & Cody Davis. If this young safety quartet can stay healthy it should be able to more than hold its own. Many want a first round draft pick used on a safety....but IMO this quad cadre could be very strong. Matt Daniels is one serious hitter but he must prove he can remain healthy. He has had three straight back to back seasons with injuries that has him IR'd. But when healthy he is a serious hitter with smarts & size to play. But I can easily see Snead drafting a safety but not using a first round pick to do it.

The only problem with sticking with our current group of safeties is that none look like FS's. They all look like SS's. We need a ballhawking guy back there. I'd probably go with a CB first, though. That's a more pressing need. It's probably our biggest need along with interior OL. I guess it all depends on how the draft plays out but CB is higher on the list for me as well. We need a shut-down guy. We have one of the best D-lines in the league and that's supposed to help the secondary. Instead, they're one of the worst. Just think how bad they'd be if our D-line wasn't this strong.

 

[Alan]

max seeing things clearly:
In fairness to Devaney, you're right, his hands were tied in several areas, including turmoil in ownership. And he really did fine in the first 2 rounds. Plus his 2nd rounders, Laurinitas, Saffold, and Kendricks were better picks than Sneads 2nd rounders.

I think Devaney was decent, and he had to carry Spags who we know now was in way over his head.

Great minds think alike.

 

[Thordaddy]

I can go with somudat, so I guess I'm semi great

 

[fearsomefour]

BD was in charge of the draft during the time when trades were rare due to the high salaries. The new regime has had the benefit of easy trade downs and the RGIII haul. Big difference IMO.

A big difference between the two was BD's failure to recognize good talent lower in the draft and in attracting decent UDFAs.

fearsomefour forgetting our needs at Safety:
You don't like drafting a stud Safety early in the draft? If there's one there of course.

No not forgetting. I meant to type DB and not just CB in my post. Both are needs as far as I can see. I would like to see the Rams add a S or CB through FA. Again doesnt have to be a Pro Bowl guy as that is more than likely out of our cost range but a solid vet guy. I could see both CB and S being drafted in the first couple of rounds. A heavy D draft is what I am expecting.

 

[Zaphod]

I would agree that the secondary unit is the weakest of the defense side of the ball & rivals the receiver cadre in weakness & under performing . Rams have put so much serious Ram capital and Ram resources into this secondary with very sour results. (1)-New hire of DC Walton with major secondary back ground, (2)- One vet CB.. @ high cost 50 million UFA signing, (3)-Fisher has used four 2012/2013 draft picks THREE second day draft selections (1-2nd & 2-3rd rounders) plus ONE 5th rounder. (4)-Signed two vets former starting safeties in Stewart & Giordano. (5)- Signed 4 UDFA DB's in Daniels-Davis-Pointer & McLeod. Results on the field have been very poor. Why? One could say injuries to starters Finnegan & McDonald plus the lost of Matt Daniels but before CF & TJ mac were hurt the secondary was weak & often beaten.

It would appear that the needed CB's will have to be targeted in the very late part of the first round & go on from there. If Snead elects to trade our top five RG3 pick for a late first rd pick with a couple of second day (2nd & 3rd rounds) 2014 draft picks he could select some of the better corners available. Presently Snead/Fisher have one decent starting CB in Johnson. Jenkins has had a very poor yr something is wrong with him and his play has deteriorated to awful. I think he is at odds with the DC Walton required playoff approach. if so JJ may want to play elsewhere in 2014. McGee is a big unknown and CB Pointer has been cut so many times the last few yrs he has no ideal whats going on. Then there is the one man loss machine called Cortland Finnegan whom many think will rebound for a good yr in 2014 to earn another 10 million plus to play in the Nickle & Dime defenses....:yousure: NOT going to happen! Just sounds so silly to me but that's just me....you don't pay 10 plus million for a slow.... small...who has forgot how to tackle Nickel back. If you have cap money to throw away then spend it on a Rodger Saffold who has much less questions on him and when he is on field you see positive results unlike Finnegan. Rams will need two talented CB's in the 2014 draft to go with Johnson, McGee & Jenkins. That will give you 2 third season vets 1 in his second yr & two rookies.

Fisher will most likely move away from Ram safety free agents vets Giordano & Stewart in the off season. Rams will have four young safeties under contract in 2014 with 3rd season Rodney McLeod, three second season safeties TJ McDonald, Matt Daniels & Cody Davis. If this young safety quartet can stay healthy it should be able to more than hold its own. Many want a first round draft pick used on a safety....but IMO this quad cadre could be very strong. Matt Daniels is one serious hitter but he must prove he can remain healthy. He has had three straight back to back seasons with injuries that has him IR'd. But when healthy he is a serious hitter with smarts & size to play. But I can easily see Snead drafting a safety but not using a first round pick to do it.

On your points
(1) I'd like to see them give Walton another year before making any judgments.
(2) I have to completely agree. I've never liked Finnegan and this isn't the only questionable free agent signing.
(3) I don't think those picks have been wasted. The depth is there and I think it's just time to invest some first round picks at both free safety and corner to take this defense from good to great. I've been critical of Jenkins, I don't know if he'll ever be very good in zone coverage, but used right in tight man coverage, he's great. Johnson just continues to improve, he's the corner you can use in about every situation. MacDonald is a hard hitting serviceable strong safety. McGee, I'm just not so sure about, but he's a fifth round pick, if he provides solid depth it's hardly a waste.
(4) This doesn't bother me as these are obvious stop gap measures. It will bother me if they don't upgrade through the draft though.
(5) No offense to the players, but this again illustrates their reluctance to invest in talent. Sure, they've provided depth, and with good coaching they may even look good. But this defense is so close to being great it's not funny.

To me, if they trade down, they can draft one top flight free safety and corner late in the first round to compliment the players they have and completely turn things around for the entire secondary unit.

And if trading down means that they can do that and still draft a defensive tackle who can compliment Brokers whom I don't know if anyone noticed but has seemed to have put a good speed rush on display lately, that would be awesome.

 

[Alan]

Thordaddy reminding me of one of my favorites:
I can go with somudat, so I guess I'm semi great

Semi-sweet morsels. hmmmm! Can't make my favorite cookie without them. :bigup:

 

[TexasRam]

Clowney will be great. I personally think he is not taking plays off but is rather trying to play injury free if you know what i mean. He knows he's going top 10.

 

[Alan]

TexasRam with a different twist on the subject:
Clowney will be great. I personally think he is not taking plays off but is rather trying to play injury free if you know what i mean. He knows he's going top 10.

What's the difference between taking plays off and trying to play injury free? At least when you just take some plays off you (presumably) play all out when you don't take the play off. Do you want to draft someone with that mindset?

I want no part of a player who plays not to get injured. Or a player who doesn't give 100% for any reason.

 

[nighttrain]

No doubt, the 2nd and 3rd rounders have been questionable. But yeah, I am talking about first rounders. And here's why. I don't see Snead trading out of the first round. We are going to get at least 2 players in the first round next year. And if we have a top 3 pick, chances are Snead will trade down and we will pick up another very high pick in addition to the 2 first rounders.

Jenkins play was OK last season, he's regresses, lack of his buddy Cort? Quick is still developing

Who knows if we're just talking about first rounders? Either or both picks could be traded. I prefer to look at the whole draft but especially the first three rounds. Who couldn't pick a few good players with the plethora of early round picks?

2012
1st round - Brockers - great pick especially considering the medical red flags.
2nd round - Quick - considering he was the first pick in the second round he's been a disaster so far.
2nd round - Jenkins - totally unimpressed so far but at least he's not having off the field problems.
2nd round - Pead - nuff said
3rd round - Trumaine Johnson - decent pick (hopefully he'll get better with time) as would be expected from the first pick in the 3rd round

2013
1st round - Austin - will probably be a very good player but I see no evidence that he was worth the second round starter he cost us.
1st round - Ogletree - as expected with a first round pick he's a good player
2nd round - NONE
3rd round - T.J. Mcdonald - very early but he's shown the deficiencies in coverage that I both feared and expected.
3rd round - Bailey- It's early but I'm totally unimpressed so far.

I give them a lot of credit for their lower round picks and their ability to attract some quality UDFAs but these picks don't give me any confidence that we'll take full advantage of the rest of our treasure trove. To posit that we picked some good players is to ignore the lost opportunities.

Brokers a stud, Jenkins play was OK last season, he's regressed, lack of his buddy Cort? Quick is still developing, but is developing, and Tru as good as most 3rd rounders, Pead only miss and he still could make the grade, 2013 draft to soon to call, as is 2012 in reality
train

 

[nighttrain]

And a great big ol Howdy Alan:bigup:
train

 

[A55VA6]

Walton needs to be fired or demoted. As long as he's in control of our defense, we will NEVER reach our potential. I hated the hire then, and I hate it now. I tried to believe in him but the more i watch our defense the more I realize it's not just the players, it's scheme and coaching.

And Alan, can you explain how you're unimpressed with Bailey? I think he's an incredible special teams player. Great blocker for a WR. Best route runner and best hands on the team. He has just had lack of opportunity. And when he gets the opportunities, he makes great plays with 100% effort. That's just what I see. Obviously he can improve a lot but I like what I see from him.

 

[Alan]

flv with a query:
Would you rather have a player who walks away from a team saying 'i've nothing further to gain by playing and doing so puts my future at a severe financial risk'? I'm just curious. There's not a definitive right or wrong. It's a position that could be taken by Saffold for instance.

Isn't that why college players come out early for the draft? I have no problem with players who come to the draft early so as to not risk injuries and maximize their value. I'd do that in a heartbeat. Apples and oranges to me. And yeah, to me, one of those options is definitely wrong and one is definitely right.

Finding any reason to not give 100% in any endeavour in life is a slippery slope.

 

[Alan]

nighttrain putting out the welcome mat:
And a great big ol Howdy Alan:bigup:
train

You used red to get my attention didn't you, you old dog! :lol: My wife uses a wiffle ball bat. Works about the same LOL.

Howdy right back at ya train! I'm sorry if I missed some of your replies to my posts. The font is so small on quotes that I can rarely catch them.

As for the quality of the last two drafts, I realize that the common wisdom is to not make judgements about drafts until at least three years have passed but I've rarely been accused of having any wisdom so that doesn't apply to me.:wink:

I agree with you that it's to early to make definitive judgements about those drafts so lets call my evaluations interim observations. I don't profess to be an expert at evaluating talent but having said that, when I see something I like or don't like I have no compunction against making snap judgements. I also have no problem eating crow later if I'm wrong.

As for Jenkins being OK last season, I disagree and X and I (along with some others) had a lengthy conversation about that. To me, the only difference between this year and last year in his play is that last year when he took me first chances in coverage he was sometimes successful and made some INTs. Many think his play has regressed but I think he just hasn't been as lucky about getting the INTs this year as he did last year. His overall play has remained the same.

I said the same thing about Atogwe's play. Many thought he was very good because of all the turnovers he created. When he stopped getting turnovers how did the rest of his game look?

It's great to be having another conversation with you train! Just give me another nudge in red to wake me up whenever you want to talk. :bigup:

BTW, for anyone else who is reading this, if you have quoted me and I didn't reply it's because I didn't see it and not because I'm not interested in talking with you.

 

[Thordaddy]

IF they only play for the money ,they fold , ALEX Barron was just SUCH AN ATHLETE